MovieChat Forums > Heaven's Gate (1981) Discussion > sorry, I tried to like it, but it's awfu...

sorry, I tried to like it, but it's awful

posted 8 years ago by Outstandingness
9 replies | jump to latest

I saw the '3 things' clip from Criterion and thought surely it couldn't be that bad. I thought the reviews were a product of mob mentality. I actually considered buying the latest version on blu ray just to watch the spectacle. At least Vilmos would save it, right?

I was wrong, it was terrible. Worse than I ever imagined it would be. It was incompetently made on a fundamental level. And I'm not even bothered by the length.

Music: very good to excellent
Cinematography: very good (although overdone and repetitive)

everything else: this is where it goes horribly wrong, and why any positive contribution from any one component (score, sets, acting, etc) gets steamrolled by Cimino's madness. The sound was garbled. The overdubs were amateur. The script was scatterbrained. The story desperately wanted to be important and had every resource available, but never figured out how to deliver any message. You can dwell on the success of the music or the visuals but the bottom line is there is no solid story told here. No nuance, no subtlety. Repetitive shots of the mountains and clouds. Broad strokes and bad editing. Complete waste and shameless indulgence. Empty characters. What a shame

[–] kmags84 8 years ago

I mostly agree and so do many others... Even people who like the film, as I do, we see the squandered opportunity. With that said, I know people who LOVE this film and more power to them. It's all taste and this has plenty to love, it just doesn't quite cut it for me. Stil, on certain days, if I have a lot of free time and haven't watched it in awhile, I pop it in. It has some beautiful shots, some great acting, set design... But the mess behind the scenes ended up on screen and I feel that's what makes this OK instead of Good or Great. Just my thoughts.

[–] Outstandingness 8 years ago

The squandered opportunity is what frustrated me. I love Vilmos, I loved Deerhunter, I love Cimino's passion, I love walken. And IMO there's times where it does briefly come together: Walken's intro is classic; the skating scene is expertly done; the waltz after graduation looks great; etc. But the rest looks unfinished. It really deserved a better fate if Cimino bothered to see it thru.

[–] col_rutherford 8 years ago

But the rest looks unfinished. It really deserved a better fate if Cimino bothered to see it thru.

Based on what I've read, part of the problem was that the filming of Heaven's Gate was way behind schedule. Cimino was a perfectionist when it came to the look of the scenes and he shot an excessive amount of footage. Post-production then had to be rushed so the film could be released for the winter of 1980.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] Outstandingness 8 years ago

I believe it. I just started the book by Bach called Final Cut. From the documentary about the production of Heaven's Gate it sounds like Cimino fell in love with the scenery.

[–] col_rutherford 8 years ago

Cimino claimed that the 219-minute version of Heaven's Gate which premiered in 1980 needed more work but he was under pressure to meet a deadline. The 219-minute version was pulled from theatrical release after only being shown in New York for one week. After much editing a 149-minute version of Heaven's Gate saw wide release in 1981. I've never watched the 149-minute version, but according to the complaints I've read it cut out too much, including the roller skating sequence. The 219-minute version was later made available on television, home video, and DVD. In 2005 another 219-minute version of Heaven's Gate received a limited theatrical release. It attempted to restore the film, but used alternative takes for some scenes where the original footage was missing or in poor condition. Cimino was involved in the making of a 216-minute cut that was released in 2012. It's the version available on Blu-ray from Criterion. It's apparently similar to the 219-minute versions, but with more vibrant colours and some other changes. I haven't watched the 216-minute cut yet, so I don't know if any improvements were made to the sound quality.

I think Heaven's Gate is best appreciated as an ambitious but flawed film, at turns impressive and frustrating. Watching it reminds me of Orson Welles' The Magnificent Ambersons and Erich von Stroheim's Greed, in that they have moments of greatness, but they were troubled productions where the final product didn't fulfill the director's vision.

[–] Outstandingness 8 years ago

as far as length, Cimino made an interesting point about Deer Hunter that cutting more out of it would make it more boring by removing parts that would increase the dramatic impact. I think he was right about Deer Hunter (especially the wedding scenes), but somewhat wrong with Heavens' gate. The movie was filled with stuff, but just delivered quite poorly. I'd imagine the shorter version (that Cimino demanded) would be a real mess, but even the full length version left a lot to be desired. I'm shocked that a project he shepherded for so many years had such bad writing. I place the blame squarely on MC since he leveraged carte blanche but failed to deliver a less than competent final product.

It's great to have ambition and passion, but if you don't have the ability to deliver, you're going to look foolish.

[–] kmags84 8 years ago

And just to follow up with another observation...

'Apocalypse Now' was also a disaster behind the scenes but in the end, it HELPED the film. The insanity went on to propel some INCREDIBLE ideas and performances. Add FFC and the Legendary John Milius, we get a film that incorporates all the energy to the scenes in the film.

It was the opposite with this film. I respect everyone involved and it sucks that a Director as great as Cimino was black balled because of it.

[–] Outstandingness 8 years ago

Yes very true. It was amazing how FFC pulled it off under all that stress. Despite the issues, all the budget and effort shows in the final product. I think FFC in Hearts of Darkness talked about the failure of pretentiousness if you try to say something great but then fail completely. Cimino had carte blanc and the highest aspirations but just didn't put it together at all.

If love to see a Milius version of Heaven's Gate. He is such a unique talent and he's got way of getting to the core of the themes. Heavens Gate desperately could've used someone like him to kick the script in the pants and get it going somewhere.