HP Lovecraft


Howard Philip Lovecraft (1890-1937) was an American horror writer of primarily short stories and short novels.

Primarily influenced by such as Poe, he has in turn influenced later writers; Stephen King, I believe, cites Lovecraft as one of the people who influenced him.

In another thread, I mentioned the Lovecraft story, The Rats in the Walls, and told of the similarities between it and King's short story, Jerusalem's Lot.

I am reading my big B & N hardback copy of Lovecraft right now, and I just got done with The Shunned House. Has anyone else read this story? If you have, did it remind you of the Marsten House?

BTW, the house mentioned in The Shunned House is quite real, and it is located in Providence, Rhode Island, which was Lovecraft's birthplace and the setting for many of his stories.

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Errmmm... not to nit-pick, but isn't his name: 'Howard Phillips Lovecraft'?

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Errmmm... not to nit-pick, but isn't his name: 'Howard Phillips Lovecraft'?
Ya got me there. Fair and square, I might add.

I don't mind if some nit-picking takes place; after all, I do it myself to my favorite King book, The Stand. Witness the longest single thread in the board for that film.

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OK, that's well said. A little bit of nit-picking is probably no bad thing, for the sake of a discussion forum.

You made a good point about the thread on 'The Stand.' What you said is correct, but the thread about 'goofs' in the book has got one major thing in its favor in that is is makes for an INTERESTING discussion. Admittedly, a lot of the stuff is 'Off-topic' but the thread is well worth a read from a purely educational point of view!

If people have time on their hands they should probably drop by there and take a look.

Cheers for now.

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I was somewhat reminded of the Marsten house. However I think the house in SL was more of a nod to Shirley Jackson than HPL.

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I was somewhat reminded of the Marsten house. However I think the house in SL was more of a nod to Shirley Jackson than HPL.
I can see similarities to both THHH and TSH. I have both the 1963 film and the 1999 Liam Neeson movie, but I have never read the 1951 book by Shirley Jackson. However, I understand that the 1963 movie is quite close to the book.

I can also see dissimilarities with both of the houses in the other stories and the Marsten House, as well. For example, both the Lovecraft and the Jackson stories have their houses occupied by a malign force of some kind, and while there are hints of this being the case with the Marsten House, it is more inferred than definitely established.

What Ben saw in the house as a young boy could have been a pure construct of his own mind, and in his conversations with both Matt and Susan, he states that he was not certain that what he saw was supernatural. He admits the possibility that his seeing Hubie Marsten might have been nothing more than the product of his over-active imagination.

With Jackson and especially with Lovecraft, there is less ambiguity. In the Lovecraft tale in particular, we are left with the impression that supernatural forces are present.

Of the three stories mentioned, the only one where an evil presence can be established for certain is in the Lovecraft story. In the Jackson story, it is strongly inferred, and in SL, it could go either way.

Let's go with this question then, shall we? Was there anything supernatural in the Marsten house between the death of Hubie and his wife and the time that it was occupied by Barlow and Straker?

What say the erudite posters on this board?

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Was there anything supernatural in the Marsten house between the death of Hubie and his wife and the time that it was occupied by Barlow and Straker?

What say the erudite posters on this board?
I guess what I'm really asking is this: was the Marsten House 'haunted' during this time?

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By 'gary_overman' :

Was there anything supernatural in the Marsten house between the death of Hubie and his wife and the time that it was occupied by Barlow and Straker?

What say the erudite posters on this board?

In this particular case I am going to say that the answer is 'Yes.' However, obviously I am going to have to back that up with some kind of a theory.

Let me first sate what I DON'T agree with,(antithesis) before saying what I DO think:

On the contrarian point, the dialogue from the film is as follows:

Ben Mears: Jason, do you believe a thing can be inherently evil?

Jason Burke: I've seen trees that look like tortured spirits.

Ben Mears: A house. The Marsten house for instance. Can it be evil in its stone foundations, in its wooden beams? In the glass of its windows? In the plaster of its ceilings? Evil.

I do not think for one second that a structure of bricks, plaster, mortar and glass can be inherently evil. Base building materials are exactly that: base materials, they are not 'sentient' or do they have any 'feeling' about anything, so that particular answer is a definite 'No.'

Later in the movie the dialogue is as follows:

Ben Mears: I think that an evil house attracts evil men.

Jason Burke: But if a house attracts evil men.

Ben Mears: Why did it attract me?

That last question strikes me as being rhetorical. Within the context of the film, Barlow and Straker are seen as 'evil' men, and the character of Ben Mears is seen as the counter-balance or 'opposing force,' a 'good man' who is there to challenge and defeat the evil-does in the town.

Well and good.

However, my original answer to the question was 'Yes.' and I want to see if I can now provide a logical answer as to why.

When Ben talks to Susan in the novel about going in the Marsten House as a child, the novel reads as follows:

‘I crept up the stairs, a little kid nine years old, scared *beep* The house was creaking and settling around me and I could hear things scuttling away from me on the other side of the plaster. I kept thinking I heard footsteps behind me. I was afraid to turn around because I might see Hubie Marsten shambling after me with a hangman’s noose in one hand and his face all black.’

He was gripping the steering wheel very hard. The levity had gone out of his voice. The intensity of his remembering frightened her a little. His face, in the glow of the instrument panel, was set in the long lines of a man who was traveling a hated country he could not completely leave.

‘At the top of the stairs I got all my courage and ran down the hall to that room. My idea was to run in, grab something from there, too, and then get the hell out of there. The door at the end of the hall was closed. I could see it getting closer and closer and I could see that the hinges had settled and the bottom edge was resting on the doorjamb. I could see the doorknob, silvery and a little tarnished in the place where palms had gripped it. When I pulled on it, the bottom edge of the door gave a scream against the wood like a woman in pain. If I had been straight, I think I would have turned around and gotten the hell out right then. But I was pumped full of adrenaline, and I grabbed it in both hands and pulled for all I was worth. It flew open. And there was Hubie, hanging from the beam with his body silhouetted against the light from the window.’

‘Oh, Ben, don’t—’ she said nervously.

‘No, I’m telling you the truth,’ he insisted. ‘The truth of what a nine-year-old boy saw and what the man remembers twenty-four years later, anyway. Hubie was hanging there, and his face wasn’t black at all. It was green. The eyes were puffed shut. His hands were livid . . . ghastly. And then he opened his eyes.’

Ben took a huge drag on his cigarette and pitched it out his window into the dark.

‘I let out a scream that probably could have been heard for two miles. And then I ran. I fell halfway downstairs, got up, and ran out the front door and straight down the road. The kids were waiting for me about half a mile down. That’s when I noticed I still had the glass snow globe in my hand. And I’ve still got it.’

‘You don’t really think you saw Hubert Marsten, do you, Ben?’ Far up ahead she could see the yellow blinking light that signaled the center of town and was glad for it.

After a long pause, he said, ‘I don’t know.’ He said it with difficulty and reluctance, as if he would have rather said no and closed the subject thereby. ‘Probably I was so keyed up that I hallucinated the whole thing. On the other hand, there may be some truth in that idea that houses absorb the emotions that are spent in them, that they hold a kind of . . . dry charge. Perhaps the right personality, that of an imaginative boy, for instance, could act as a catalyst on that dry charge, and cause it to produce an active manifestation of . . . of something. I’m not talking about ghosts, precisely. I’m talking about a kind of psychic television in three dimensions. Perhaps even something alive. A monster, if you like.’

She took one of his cigarettes and lit it.

‘Anyway, I slept with the light on in my bedroom for weeks after, and I’ve dreamed about opening that door off and on for the rest of my life. Whenever I’m in stress, the dream comes.’

Obviously, the text from the novel is more detailed. It is necessary for 'movie-speak' to be more snappy and succinct for the benefit of communicating ideas within the running time, whereas the reader / writer of a novel has much more time over which to expound an idea.

The house being 'haunted' was by no means 100% certain from the text in the novel. Even the character of Ben was having trouble confirming it for himself, and as such it is left as an open question.

The inspiration for that scene in the novel had it's origins in a dream which Stephen King had had in his childhood.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

'King recalls a dream he had when he was eight years old. In the dream, he saw the body of a hanged man dangling from the arm of a scaffold on a hill. "The corpse bore a sign: ROBERT BURNS. But when the wind caused the corpse to turn in the air, I saw that it was my face - rotted and picked by birds, but obviously mine. And then the corpse opened its eyes and looked at me. I woke up screaming, sure that a dead face would be leaning over me in the dark. Sixteen years later, I was able to use the dream as one of the central images in my novel 'Salem's Lot. I just changed the name of the corpse to Hubie Marsten."'

The dialogue at the end (of Ben's speech) reads as follows:

'there may be some truth in that idea that houses absorb the emotions that are spent in them'

This seems to be altogether more likely to me, than a base structure being 'inherently evil.'

People who work in alternative therapies believe that crystals can be 'programmed' for the purposes of healing, and obviously that is open to interpretation.

Someone once observed in terms of deserted buildings that: 'Churches always feel like churches and prisons always feel like prisons.' regardless of how much time has gone by since they were occupied, for exactly the reason explained above - The base materials in the buildings structure have in fact 'taken on' or 'absorbed' the ongoing emotions that have taken place within them.

Years before the beginning of the novel, The Marsten House was the site of both murder and suicide, those are extremely intense and very gruesome events to be enacted there and as such it is possible that the base materials of the buildings structure may have soaked up that (extremely negative) energy on a atomic level.

Hence it could form the basis of Barlow and Straker's desire to be there or the idea that 'an evil house attracts evil men,' as it would be suited to their needs for the diabolical work that they had in mind.

This next part is going to go slightly 'Off-Topic':

Unfortunately, there was a real-life case of a British serial killer (who will remain nameless) who was brought to justice and arrested in 1994, but hanged himself before he could come to trial.

He was arrested on 10 counts of murdering young women and some of the bodies had been buried at his house. About 18 months later the house where the acts had taken place was demolished and made into a landscape sidewalk.

I can foresee two reasons for that happening:

1. Nobody in their their right mind would want to live in the place
2. The place could become a focal point for any local weirdos or would-be satanists who would believe the acts to be 'impressive' in some way.

Either way, demolishing the house was probably the only correct course of action, for either 'sane' or 'right-thinking' people to take, on general principals, if only for the peace of mind of the local community.

And now: to get back 'On-Topic':

The original questions as the beginning of the post was as follows:

Was there anything supernatural in the Marsten house between the death of Hubie and his wife and the time that it was occupied by Barlow and Straker?

Was the house haunted?

For all of the reasons outlined above I am going to say:

'Yes.'

By all means let's discuss. Please post with any interesting thoughts you might have.

Cheers for now.


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By 'gary_overman' :

Was there anything supernatural in the Marsten house between the death of Hubie and his wife and the time that it was occupied by Barlow and Straker?

What say the erudite posters on this board?

In this particular case I am going to say that the answer is 'Yes.' However, obviously I am going to have to back that up with some kind of a theory.

Let me first sate what I DON'T agree with,(antithesis) before saying what I DO think:

On the contrarian point, the dialogue from the film is as follows:

Ben Mears: Jason, do you believe a thing can be inherently evil?

Jason Burke: I've seen trees that look like tortured spirits.

Ben Mears: A house. The Marsten house for instance. Can it be evil in its stone foundations, in its wooden beams? In the glass of its windows? In the plaster of its ceilings? Evil.

I do not think for one second that a structure of bricks, plaster, mortar and glass can be inherently evil. Base building materials are exactly that: base materials, they are not 'sentient' or do they have any 'feeling' about anything, so that particular answer is a definite 'No.'

Later in the movie the dialogue is as follows:

Ben Mears: I think that an evil house attracts evil men.

Jason Burke: But if a house attracts evil men.

Ben Mears: Why did it attract me?

That last question strikes me as being rhetorical. Within the context of the film, Barlow and Straker are seen as 'evil' men, and the character of Ben Mears is seen as the counter-balance or 'opposing force,' a 'good man' who is there to challenge and defeat the evil-does in the town.
On this point, I have read of places in the UK that have a rich history of, shall we say, 'odd' happenings. The now defunct Fate Magazine told of a place that was dangerous to be in in the month of May. There were a lot of fatalities in this very small area. The theory advanced was that this was the site of human sacrifices in pre-Roman Britain. and the 'aura' (I suppose that you might say the 'emotional' forces) of these deeds were still present many years later.
Well and good.

However, my original answer to the question was 'Yes.' and I want to see if I can now provide a logical answer as to why.

When Ben talks to Susan in the novel about going in the Marsten House as a child, the novel reads as follows:

‘I crept up the stairs, a little kid nine years old, scared *beep* The house was creaking and settling around me and I could hear things scuttling away from me on the other side of the plaster. I kept thinking I heard footsteps behind me. I was afraid to turn around because I might see Hubie Marsten shambling after me with a hangman’s noose in one hand and his face all black.’

He was gripping the steering wheel very hard. The levity had gone out of his voice. The intensity of his remembering frightened her a little. His face, in the glow of the instrument panel, was set in the long lines of a man who was traveling a hated country he could not completely leave.

‘At the top of the stairs I got all my courage and ran down the hall to that room. My idea was to run in, grab something from there, too, and then get the hell out of there. The door at the end of the hall was closed. I could see it getting closer and closer and I could see that the hinges had settled and the bottom edge was resting on the doorjamb. I could see the doorknob, silvery and a little tarnished in the place where palms had gripped it. When I pulled on it, the bottom edge of the door gave a scream against the wood like a woman in pain. If I had been straight, I think I would have turned around and gotten the hell out right then. But I was pumped full of adrenaline, and I grabbed it in both hands and pulled for all I was worth. It flew open. And there was Hubie, hanging from the beam with his body silhouetted against the light from the window.’

‘Oh, Ben, don’t—’ she said nervously.

‘No, I’m telling you the truth,’ he insisted. ‘The truth of what a nine-year-old boy saw and what the man remembers twenty-four years later, anyway. Hubie was hanging there, and his face wasn’t black at all. It was green. The eyes were puffed shut. His hands were livid . . . ghastly. And then he opened his eyes.’

Ben took a huge drag on his cigarette and pitched it out his window into the dark.

‘I let out a scream that probably could have been heard for two miles. And then I ran. I fell halfway downstairs, got up, and ran out the front door and straight down the road. The kids were waiting for me about half a mile down. That’s when I noticed I still had the glass snow globe in my hand. And I’ve still got it.’

‘You don’t really think you saw Hubert Marsten, do you, Ben?’ Far up ahead she could see the yellow blinking light that signaled the center of town and was glad for it.

After a long pause, he said, ‘I don’t know.’ He said it with difficulty and reluctance, as if he would have rather said no and closed the subject thereby. ‘Probably I was so keyed up that I hallucinated the whole thing. On the other hand, there may be some truth in that idea that houses absorb the emotions that are spent in them, that they hold a kind of . . . dry charge. Perhaps the right personality, that of an imaginative boy, for instance, could act as a catalyst on that dry charge, and cause it to produce an active manifestation of . . . of something. I’m not talking about ghosts, precisely. I’m talking about a kind of psychic television in three dimensions. Perhaps even something alive. A monster, if you like.’

She took one of his cigarettes and lit it.

‘Anyway, I slept with the light on in my bedroom for weeks after, and I’ve dreamed about opening that door off and on for the rest of my life. Whenever I’m in stress, the dream comes.’

Obviously, the text from the novel is more detailed. It is necessary for 'movie-speak' to be more snappy and succinct for the benefit of communicating ideas within the running time, whereas the reader / writer of a novel has much more time over which to expound an idea.

The house being 'haunted' was by no means 100% certain from the text in the novel. Even the character of Ben was having trouble confirming it for himself, and as such it is left as an open question.

The inspiration for that scene in the novel had it's origins in a dream which Stephen King had had in his childhood.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

'King recalls a dream he had when he was eight years old. In the dream, he saw the body of a hanged man dangling from the arm of a scaffold on a hill. "The corpse bore a sign: ROBERT BURNS. But when the wind caused the corpse to turn in the air, I saw that it was my face - rotted and picked by birds, but obviously mine. And then the corpse opened its eyes and looked at me. I woke up screaming, sure that a dead face would be leaning over me in the dark. Sixteen years later, I was able to use the dream as one of the central images in my novel 'Salem's Lot. I just changed the name of the corpse to Hubie Marsten."'

The dialogue at the end (of Ben's speech) reads as follows:

'there may be some truth in that idea that houses absorb the emotions that are spent in them'

This seems to be altogether more likely to me, than a base structure being 'inherently evil.'
This is a possibility, but it is by no means certain.
People who work in alternative therapies believe that crystals can be 'programmed' for the purposes of healing, and obviously that is open to interpretation.

Someone once observed in terms of deserted buildings that: 'Churches always feel like churches and prisons always feel like prisons.' regardless of how much time has gone by since they were occupied, for exactly the reason explained above - The base materials in the buildings structure have in fact 'taken on' or 'absorbed' the ongoing emotions that have taken place within them.

Years before the beginning of the novel, The Marsten House was the site of both murder and suicide, those are extremely intense and very gruesome events to be enacted there and as such it is possible that the base materials of the buildings structure may have soaked up that (extremely negative) energy on a atomic level.

Hence it could form the basis of Barlow and Straker's desire to be there or the idea that 'an evil house attracts evil men,' as it would be suited to their needs for the diabolical work that they had in mind.
Quite so; not only did Hubie murder his wife and kill himself, he is also strongly suspected of killing small children to his infernal gods. So, assuming that he did this in the house itself, and further assuming that what we believe was true, their emotions could also be absorbed.

But there is also another, more ordinary possibility for their (that is Barlow and Straker) taking the house. The Marsten House was physically fairly isolated and at somewhat of a distance from the town itself. Serial murderers often require privacy for what they do. It would not do for a nosy neighbor to hear the screams of a victim and call the police. The house was atop a hill overlooking the town, and Breichen/Barlow had presumably been invited to the town by Hubie before his suicide threw everything to the winds. Not only the physical isolation would appeal to Barlow, but the house was shunned by the locals. So, there would be the factor of familiarity. I concede that this would be a small factor, however.

This next part is going to go slightly 'Off-Topic':

Unfortunately, there was a real-life case of a British serial killer (who will remain nameless) who was brought to justice and arrested in 1994, but hanged himself before he could come to trial.

He was arrested on 10 counts of murdering young women and some of the bodies had been buried at his house. About 18 months later the house where the acts had taken place was demolished and made into a landscape sidewalk.

I can foresee two reasons for that happening:

1. Nobody in their their right mind would want to live in the place
2. The place could become a focal point for any local weirdos or would-be satanists who would believe the acts to be 'impressive' in some way.

Either way, demolishing the house was probably the only correct course of action, for either 'sane' or 'right-thinking' people to take, on general principals, if only for the peace of mind of the local community.

I think that I know the case to which you refer. And yes; the local authorities certainly did the right thing by demolishing the house. Not only was the house itself torn down, but the timbers used were burned and the bricks were ground to dust.

And now: to get back 'On-Topic':

The original questions as the beginning of the post was as follows:

Was there anything supernatural in the Marsten house between the death of Hubie and his wife and the time that it was occupied by Barlow and Straker?

Was the house haunted?

For all of the reasons outlined above I am going to say:

'Yes.'

By all means let's discuss. Please post with any interesting thoughts you might have.

Cheers for now.

My erudite friend, you make an interesting case, and parts of it are quite compelling, but I still am not quite convinced, and even you concede that it is not certain. What argues against the more 'ordinary' reasons that I proposed above?

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C&P of part of my post above:

I have read of places in the UK that have a rich history of, shall we say, 'odd' happenings. The now defunct Fate Magazine told of a place that was dangerous to be in in the month of May. There were a lot of fatalities in this very small area. The theory advanced was that that this was the site of human sacrifices in pre-Roman Britain. and the 'aura' (I suppose that you might say the 'emotional' forces) of these deeds were still present many years later.

elmadman, does this sound at all familiar to you?

FWIW, I just ordered the book that (I hope) had this story in it from amazon and if I find the story, I'll give a summary of what I find here.

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Hi Gary,

In all honesty I can't say I am familiar with either the story or the area in question. Obviously if you get the book, then please post with any relevant info.

Am I correct in saying that all 'ghost stories' have a similar outlay?

That is to say that someone died in tragic or violent circumstances, and as they either did not have a chance to 'make peace' with their fate, or alternatively 'move on' from an earthly plane, in the usual prescribed manner.

The practical result is that the house or area they are associated with becomes the site of a supposed 'haunting' where things are not quite as they should be, the 'aura' of the place is not at rest, and as such people don't want to be there etc. etc.

That harkens back to the story mentioned in a previous post (mine) about the house of the serial killer which was demolished and the area converted into a sidewalk - for exactly the reasons stated above.

What is standard practice in those cases?

I mean is it standard practice to enlist the help of a local priest / rabbi / clergyman / man of the cloth to 'bless' the area in question and allow any 'trapped energy' or a 'negative aura' to be dispersed and go to (supposedly) a higher plane of existence?

Can anyone - on the board here as a whole - think of any time such a ceremony has been conducted successfully - or am I raising a 'taboo' subject i.e. It is something that happens sometimes but it is considered poor taste - or unacceptable - to talk about it later, even in the instance of a successful case.

Please, everyone, feel free to post with any thoughts you might have.

Cheers for now.

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Hi Gary,

In all honesty I can't say I am familiar with either the story or the area in question. Obviously if you get the book, then please post with any relevant info.

Am I correct in saying that all 'ghost stories' have a similar outlay?

That is to say that someone died in tragic or violent circumstances, and as they either did not have a chance to 'make peace' with their fate, or alternatively 'move on' from an earthly plane, in the usual prescribed manner.

The practical result is that the house or area they are associated with becomes the site of a supposed 'haunting' where things are not quite as they should be, the 'aura' of the place is not at rest, and as such people don't want to be there etc. etc.

That harkens back to the story mentioned in a previous post (mine) about the house of the serial killer which was demolished and the area converted into a sidewalk - for exactly the reasons stated above.

What is standard practice in those cases?

I mean is it standard practice to enlist the help of a local priest / rabbi / clergyman / man of the cloth to 'bless' the area in question and allow any 'trapped energy' or a 'negative aura' to be dispersed and go to (supposedly) a higher plane of existence?

Can anyone - on the board here as a whole - think of any time such a ceremony has been conducted successfully - or am I raising a 'taboo' subject i.e. It is something that happens sometimes but it is considered poor taste - or unacceptable - to talk about it later, even in the instance of a successful case.

Please, everyone, feel free to post with any thoughts you might have.
If you could, and you wouldn't mind, please do some checking for me. It is not a building; rather, it is a site (forest, road, field, or something) that I think may be associated with pre-Roman Britain. I am making my own inquiries, having contacted Fate (which is not defunct as I said earlier) and the writer of the book.

Usually, alleged hauntings are the result of some tragedy whereby a life is cut short. Often there is no earthly justice meted out to any villains, and the disembodied spirit is compelled to wander at the site where the person died.

I don't think there is a 'standard' practice in dealing with supernatural events such as these. If the current owners want to rid themselves of a malign entity, an exorcism might be resorted to. On the other hand, ghosts attract tourists, so the owners may decide to let it be.

In the case of the serial killers that you mentioned, I am not aware of any supernatural occurrences associated with the property; the local authorities simply (and prudently) acted to discourage gawkers and souvenir hunters more than anything else.

The film The Conjuring, is based upon Ed and Lorraine Warren's experiences. They say that they were successful in ridding a number of places and people of unwanted entities. There is also the case of the 1928 exorcism in the parish of Earling, Iowa.

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If you could, and you wouldn't mind, please do some checking for me. It is not a building; rather, it is a site (forest, road, field, or something) that I think may be associated with pre-Roman Britain. I am making my own inquiries, having contacted Fate (which is not defunct as I said earlier) and the writer of the book.


I can do some checking online, but I'm not really sure what I'm after, but I'll take a look into it.


Usually, alleged hauntings are the result of some tragedy whereby a life is cut short. Often there is no earthly justice meted out to any villains, and the disembodied spirit is compelled to wander at the site where the person died.

I don't think there is a 'standard' practice in dealing with supernatural events such as these. If the current owners want to rid themselves of a malign entity, an exorcism might be resorted to. On the other hand, ghosts attract tourists, so the owners may decide to let it be.



I'm not sure if exorcism or 'spirit cleansing' or whatever even happens in this day and age. I remember the character of Fr. Kerras saying something to Chris McNeill something along the lines of: 'If you want to talk about an exorcism, I'll have to put you in a time machine and send you back to the 14th Century.' In response to the fact that it simply wasn't either done or taken seriously anymore, from the film 'The Exorcist.'

That makes for an interesting question: Is it only in the Catholic faith and in Judaism that exorcism or 'spirit cleansing' is practiced, if at all?

In the case of the serial killers that you mentioned, I am not aware of any supernatural occurrences associated with the property; the local authorities simply (and prudently) acted to discourage gawkers and souvenir hunters more than anything else.


Yes, the above is correct: no supernatural connection with the serial killer mentioned. Sorry if I confused the issue there, I did not mean to muddy the water. I agree completely with what you said about discouraging gawkers and souvenir hunters.


The film The Conjuring, is based upon Ed and Lorraine Warren's experiences. They say that they were successful in ridding a number of places and people of unwanted entities. There is also the case of the 1928 exorcism in the parish of Earling, Iowa.


That might be worth a look.

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This is from the previous post:

If you could, and you wouldn't mind, please do some checking for me. It is not a building; rather, it is a site (forest, road, field, or something) that I think may be associated with pre-Roman Britain. I am making my own inquiries, having contacted Fate (which is not defunct as I said earlier) and the writer of the book.


I can do some checking online, but I'm not really sure what I'm after, but I'll take a look into it.

OK I did a little checking on Wikipedia into 'Reportedly haunted locations in the United Kingdom' and I came up with the following article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reportedly_haunted_locations_in_the_United_Kingdom

Briefly, the article lists about 50 different locations which are reportedly haunted.

However, having said that, a quick scan of the article does not give any details to anything linked as far back as pre-Roman Britain.

Look it over and come back to me with any thoughts, but I am not sure this is in the right direction.

Cheers for now.

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Hi there,

By coincidence I have just finished reading / listening to the Stephen King Novel 'Revival' and I have to say that it is worth noting on here that the end part of the book seems to tap very strongly in the Lovecraft mythos.

Lovecraft is mentioned by name, as is the forbidden book 'De Vermis Mysteriis' (The Mysteries of the Worm.) and the famous Lovecraft couplet:

That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.

That's interesting, I am very sure that this discussion was mentioned on another thread on the Salem's Lot board here.

Anyone with any thoughts please feel free to post.

Cheers for now.

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Hi there,

By coincidence I have just finished reading / listening to the Stephen King Novel 'Revival' and I have to say that it is worth noting on here that the end part of the book seems to tap very strongly in the Lovecraft mythos.

Lovecraft is mentioned by name, as is the forbidden book 'De Vermis Mysteriis' (The Mysteries of the Worm.) and the famous Lovecraft couplet:

That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.

That's interesting, I am very sure that this discussion was mentioned on another thread on the Salem's Lot board here.

Anyone with any thoughts please feel free to post.

Cheers for now.
We just had a terrible night weather-wise here as there were tornadoes reported in Kansas right north to me. I have yet to check for damage, but I don't believe that there was any. Still a suspenseful night, however.

So far, the only really confirmed references to Lovecraft in works by King that I know about, are Crouch End, Jerusalem's Lot, and the story that you just mentioned, Revival. There are hints or allusions to it in other works, the grimoire that was mentioned in 'Salem's Lot, for example, and one other short story by King, the name of which escapes me at the moment.

Some good news for me: Fate magazine has said on their facebook page that they will try to find the article that I mentioned earlier. If they find it, I'll let you know what it has.

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Hi Gary,

First off I hope - all suspense issues aside - that the weather was not too rough on your property or belongings.

Some good news for me: Fate magazine has said on their facebook page that they will try to find the article that I mentioned earlier. If they find it, I'll let you know what it has.

Yes, please by all means do post the info, because I have to say I am not sure of the story / area that you have referred to, by all means post the info if it is available as it might be the stuff for another interesting conversation.

Cheers for now.

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The SK short story N. is one that I just read and it sounds suspiciously like it was influenced by the Cthulhu mythos.

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Has anyone read any Lovecraft as a result of my posting this thread? Just curious is all.

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Hi Gary,

To be honest the answer is 'No.' although I actually did mean to after you posted the link.

If I WAS going to read one of the on-line short stories, which one would you recommend and why?

Please think it over and drop me a line,

Cheers for now.

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If I WAS going to read one of the on-line short stories, which one would you recommend and why?

Please think it over and drop me a line,
The Call of Cthulhu is interesting and it is even (for Lovecraft) quite readable.

The Transition of Juan Romero is a good one as well and it is fairly short, as is The Statement of Randolph Carter.

The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath is almost unreadable and it is also one of his longer stories. The Lovecraft character Randolph Carter, introduced in the story bearing his name, is the central character in Dream-Quest, and he also appears in a few other Lovecraft stories as well.

Another story with which to start your Lovecraft adventure might be The Terrible Old Man.

The stories themselves are interesting, even given Lovecraft's stilted and somewhat ponderous writing style. As an aside, he was also somewhat of a racist, so you might want to be prepared for that if it offends you. An example of this might be The Rats in the Wall, (the plot of which bears a remarkable commonality with the Stephen King story, Jerusalem's Lot) where he depicts a coal-black cat, named with the vulgar racial epithet.

So there are a few suggestions for you. I hope you like them.

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Thanks for the above post, Gary. There is some food for thought there and the suggestions are worth looking into.

Cheers for now.

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C&P of part of my post above:

I have read of places in the UK that have a rich history of, shall we say, 'odd' happenings. The now defunct Fate Magazine told of a place that was dangerous to be in in the month of May. There were a lot of fatalities in this very small area. The theory advanced was that that this was the site of human sacrifices in pre-Roman Britain. and the 'aura' (I suppose that you might say the 'emotional' forces) of these deeds were still present many years later.

elmadman, does this sound at all familiar to you?

FWIW, I just ordered the book that (I hope) had this story in it from amazon and if I find the story, I'll give a summary of what I find here.
After some further checking, (Fate Magazine finally has an on-line index) I think this might be a quarry of some kind in England.

The article in question is 'Mystery of the Death Quarry'. I'll do some more checking.

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C&P of part of my post above:

I have read of places in the UK that have a rich history of, shall we say, 'odd' happenings. The now defunct Fate Magazine told of a place that was dangerous to be in in the month of May. There were a lot of fatalities in this very small area. The theory advanced was that that this was the site of human sacrifices in pre-Roman Britain. and the 'aura' (I suppose that you might say the 'emotional' forces) of these deeds were still present many years later.

elmadman, does this sound at all familiar to you?

FWIW, I just ordered the book that (I hope) had this story in it from amazon and if I find the story, I'll give a summary of what I find here.
After some further checking, (Fate Magazine finally has an on-line index) I think this might be a quarry of some kind in England.

The article in question is 'Mystery of the Death Quarry'. I'll do some more checking.
In case you are interested, Mr E, the place is Bredon Hill near Tewksbury in Gloucestershire. There seems to be an old quarry near there that dates back to pre-Roman times.

I expect to get the book I ordered tomorrow and I believe that will confirm it.

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In case you are interested, Mr E, the place is Bredon Hill near Tewksbury in Gloucestershire. There seems to be an old quarry near there that dates back to pre-Roman times.

Hi Gary,

To be honest I have never heard, read or seen anything about the area you have described, so the fact is that it is all news to me. Sorry that I can't be of more help in this particular case. Maybe the book you ordered will shed some light on the subject.

Cheers for now.


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That's quite all right Mr E; I got the book yesterday (along with a complete works of Edgar Allan Poe) and the place is confirmed as Bredon Hill, just like I said above. It is alleged to have some sort of malevolent Presence. If you are at all interested in anomalous phenomena, there are articles on the net.

Poe, you might recall, was a major influence on HP Lovecraft. The first thing I read was his poem, The Raven.

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Bredon Hill

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not to be confused with Breedon on the Hill.

Bredon Hill

Bredon Hill is a hill in Worcestershire, England, south-west of Evesham in the Vale of Evesham. The summit of the hill is in the parish of Kemerton and it extends over parts of eight other parishes (listed below). The hill is geologically part of the Cotswolds and lies within the Cotswolds Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, although as the result of erosion over millions of years it now stands isolated in the Vale of Evesham
At the summit, adjacent to Kemerton Camp, is a small stone tower called Parsons Folly (or the Banbury Stone Tower) which stands at GPS coordinates (52.059963, -2.064606). The tower was built in the mid-18th century for John Parsons, MP (1732–1805), squire of Kemerton Court and intended as a summer house, from which a more extensive view of the surrounding countryside could be seen. The 981 feet natural height of the hill contributes to the final height of the tower, whose top now reaches 1000 feet. A similar tower on Leith Hill increases the overall height from 965 feet to 1029 feet. The folly became a well-known county landmark, and was believed to have inspired the building of Broadway Tower. The current owners, Overbury Estate, lease out the tower as a mobile phone base station, and a number of large aerials have been fitted to its exterior.

History

At the summit of the hill are the remains of earthworks from an Iron Age hill fort known as Kemerton Camp, which is believed to have been abandoned in the 1st century A.D. after a considerable battle.

There are also Roman earthworks and a number of ancient standing stones on the hill. One large stone at the summit is called the Banbury Stone, deriving from 'Baenintesburg', a name for the fort in the 8th century. It is known colloquially as the 'Elephant Stone' because of its resemblance to that animal. Another pair of stones below the summit are known as the King and Queen Stones. Local legend tells that if you pass between them you will be cured of illness.

At Elmley Castle on the north side of the hill are the remains of a considerable medieval castle, once the chief stronghold of the powerful Beauchamp family, who became Earls of Warwick. The castle fell into disrepair during the 16th century, and stone from it was used in the construction of the bridge at Pershore.

A fair and summer games were held every Whitsun at the summit of Bredon Hill until c.1876.

On 17 October 2011 Worcestershire County Council announced that Worcestershire's largest-ever hoard of Roman artefacts, including around 4,000 coins, featuring 16 different emperors, had been uncovered.[1]

Nature and geography

Bredon Hill is one of the most important wildlife sites in England, providing a range of habitats including ancient woodland, calcareous grassland and scrub. A large section of the western and northern scarp was designated a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) in 1955.[2] Since 2005, an overlapping area has also been designated as a Special Area of Conservation (SAC) under the European Commission Habitats Directive. Part of the SAC is a National Nature Reserve. Bredon Hill is most important as habitat for rare invertebrates, such as the violet click beetle. Natural England and Kemerton Conservation Trust are among those organisations participating in wildlife management on the hill.

Several parts of the hill are managed for wildlife under DEFRA 'Environmental Stewardship' schemes. This includes the area around the summit, which is managed as grassland with open public access.

A large number of public footpaths and bridleways cross the hill from the villages circling its base, and allow for a variety of circular routes to be devised. The Wychavon Way passes over the hill, but does not reach the summit itself, passing close by (necessitating a short easy detour).

The Ordnance Survey 1:50,000 map has for many years shown the top as 229 metres high. That this is a typographical error is obvious from the contours; the 1:25,000 map shows the spot height as 299 metres.

Literature and the arts

Bredon Hill features in the works of a multitude of composers, poets, writers and artists. This pantheon includes the composers Ralph Vaughan Williams, Sir Arthur Somervell, Ivor Gurney, George Butterworth, Herbert Howells and Julius Harrison; the poets A. E. Housman, John Masefield, Cecil Day-Lewis, John Drinkwater and U. A. Fanthorpe; the authors E. V. Lucas, Arthur Quiller-Couch, William Cobbett, E. Temple Thurston, Francis Brett Young, John Moore, Fred Archer and Jenny Glanfield; and the artists Peter de Wint, Alfred William Parsons, Benjamin Williams Leader, Frederick Whitehead, Josiah Wood Whymper, Alfred Egerton Cooper, A. R. Quinton, Henry Yeend King and Anna Hornby.

Bredon Hill is the birthplace of farmer and writer Fred Archer (1915–1999), whose many books describe, in vivid prose, life on the farms and in the villages, particularly during the first part of the 20th century.

The author John Moore described life on and around Bredon Hill in the early 20th century in the 'Brensham Trilogy'.

The children's author Ursula Moray Williams lived on the hill in Beckford from 1945 until her death in 2006

The hill is immortalised in poem 21 of A. E. Housman's 1896 anthology A Shropshire Lad.

In summertime on Bredon
The bells they sound so clear;
Round both the shires they ring them
In steeples far and near,
A happy noise to hear.
Here of a Sunday morning
My love and I would lie,
And see the coloured counties,
And hear the larks so high
About us in the sky.
The bells would ring to call her
In valleys miles away;
"Come all to church, good people;
Good people come and pray."
But here my love would stay.
And I would turn and answer
Among the springing thyme,
"Oh, peal upon our wedding,
And we will hear the chime,
And come to church in time."
But when the snows at Christmas
On Bredon top were strown,
My love rose up so early
And stole out unbeknown
And went to church alone.
They tolled the one bell only,
Groom there was none to see,
The mourners followed after,
And so to church went she,
And would not wait for me.
The bells they sound on Bredon,
And still the steeples hum,
"Come all to church, good people."
O noisy bells, be dumb;
I hear you, I will come.

Incidental information

When Worcester Cathedral was damaged in the English civil war, it was repaired with stone brought from Bredon.

The name "Bredon Hill" is unusual in that it combines the name for "hill" in three different languages (compare Pendle Hill). The word "bre" is of Celtic origin, and "don" is an Old English usage.

A well-known local saying, which predicts bad weather, goes: "When Bredon Hill has on his hat, men of the vale beware of that".

Julius Harrison's 1941 composition for violin and orchestra, Bredon Hill, takes its name from the hill which he could see fro his home.

Villages


The hill is made up from land belonging to 9 parishes. Working clockwise from the summit these are:

Kemerton
Bredon & Bredon's Norton
Eckington
Great Comberton
Little Comberton
Elmley Castle, Bricklehampton & Netherton
Ashton under Hill
Beckford
Overbury & Conderton

Contemporary arts and crafts

There is a lively local arts scene around the hill such as the Bredon Hill Open Studios group of artists, designers and craftspeople who open up their studios to the public. This group includes the artist Samantha Dadd, Conderton Pottery and Beckford Silk-printing workshop. Contemporary artists painting the local area include Nick Holdsworth and Tony Whitehouse.

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