He seemed to be thrilled that she initiated their courtship--remember when he says "It was very lucky for me that we met, that you were so forward otherwise I would never have spoken to you."? And he turns her down?
Was he simply that shy?
Because he's smart and enough of a gentleman to know that he doesn't *love* someone. He's overlooked that she was a sweet piece of ass and examined the person beneath the skin.
Frankly, she was kind of a handful. I'd enjoy her company for a few days. But she's extremely outspoken and direct. While I'm not *at all* saying that a woman shouldn't be like that, I'm saying that no matter the sex, spending one's life with that can be trying at times. Being someone who's like that, I know what I'm talking about.
She also ruined it in the scene on the deck by saying to him, "But we're not in love, are we?" She totally gave him the out by phrasing the question that way. Had she said, "Are we in love?" It would have been more difficult for him to say no. The way she phrased the question made it sound like she wasn't in love with him, which we know is not the case given the obvious hurt when he says, "No, I don't expect we are."
Hmmm.
It just seemed to me that he was clearly attracted to her--whether he was in love with her or not is hard to tell--and that he totally blew it, first by making out that his steward's suggestion (that they share that empty cabin) was "awful" and then, when she asked him "Do you want me to go with you there?" saying "I expect so" instead of "yes."
What you said makes sense, if he wasn't in love with her or in the process as it were of falling in love. If she loved him and he didn't reciprocate those feelings but gave in to her advances anyway, then he would have had an obligation to stay with her indefinetely or at least for a longer period of time than he might have been willing to put up with. Many men will say that they love a a woman who clearly loves them in order to get some "lovin'" if you know I what I mean, in which case, once that happens you have a dilemma, either leave and break the poor woman's heart or stay but imprison yourself by commiting yourself to someone you'd rather not.
If I understand what you're saying, then I guess Lawrence knew that, if he and Leigh had sex, he'd be caught between that rock and hard place, so he nipped it in the bud.
No. I'm saying that she played the situation wrong. She talked him out of the sex by suggesting that they weren't in love. The girl totally blew it. She played it wrong.
I don't think she should have had sex. But she could have said, "Let's wait and get to know each other better."
She should have talked him into the feelings and out of the physical act. Had she confessed her obvious feelings for him rather than sending mixed signals, she might have brought out feelings in him that he may not have realized that he had.
There *are* situations where people don't realize that they have feelings for someone.
So, in the end, he didn't turn her down. She turned him down and talked him out of any future. Maybe he backed off because he was embarrassed, didn't realize what was going on between them, or felt that she wasn't interested.
My opinion is that there were feelings between them.
To be honest, I think that the real reason that the two never got it on is because Beesley was a REAL PERSON whereas Leigh was just a fictional character designed to let him have someone to interact with. Giving him a fictional love interest is one thing, but to give him a sexual partner would probably have bene too much. I mean, can yuo imagine that they had Molly Brown rooting the bald guy she danced the tango with - the outcry there would have been!! Basically, when writing about real historical figures, you're SOMEWHAT (!) limited in how far you can fictionalise.
Yes, I shall certainly choose revolutionary France for my holiday again next year.
Leigh Goodwin is a combination of two women that Mr. B met on the ship. So, she's not entirely fictional. Just her name and her oneness.
As far as suggesting an historical figure gets it on, don't you think suggesting that an historical figuring propositioning a woman traveling alone would be just as bad within the context of the time period?
Leigh Goodwin is a combination of two women that Mr. B met on the shipAnd I have never found out which two. I know one of them was a Canadian lady whom he met in the lifeboat, Hilda Slayter, I believe her name was. The other one, like Leigh in the film, was a schoolteacher I believe but I don't know her name. share
She talked him out of the sex by suggesting that they weren't in love. The girl totally blew it. She played it wrong....Had she confessed her obvious feelings for him rather than sending mixed signals, she might have brought out feelings in him that he may not have realized that he hadBut Leigh struck me as a very smart woman--you could see why a guy like Lawrence would be attracted to her--so I cannot believe that she inadvertently miscommunicated her feelings to him. You yourself pointed out how outspoken and direct she was. Was she for some reason afraid of confessing her love for him? share
She was all along. She was sending him mixed signals. He's cruising mute third class girls and she's telling him how to meet her. He propositions her and she tells him that they're not in love.
Outspoken is one thing. Flustered in an uncomfortable situation is another.
Funny how you and I have apparently read the scene differently.
I'm curious: are you male or female, MeClaudis? I'm a 25-year-old man.
I'm a 30 year old male.
How are you reading the scene?
Here are excerpts copied and pasted directly from the script of key points in the conversation:
LEIGH: Do you want me to go there with you?
BEESLEY: I expect I do, yes.
LEIGH: You expect. But you're not certain. You haven't weighed every possible consequence.
BEESLEY: I scarcely dared think about it.
LEIGH: Then how can you be sure it's what you really want?
LEIGH CONT'D: Because we are friends, I believe. Or at least good companions.
BEESLEY: Of course.
LEIGH: But we're not in love, are we?
(He looks away.)
Well, are we?
BEESLEY (quietly): No, I don't expect we are.
LEIGH: Of course not. Either way, I'm told the same rule applies. Shipboard friendships, like shipboard romances, end with the voyage. It's considered bad form to pursue it any further.[quote]
Again, what is the signal she's sending to him? She's asked leading questions where she says that they're friends and then says "we're not in love", following it up by an expectation of a confirmation. It wasn't a question. It was a statement and request for confirmation.
[quote]LEIGH: I'm not offended, honestly. A little shocked, perhaps, but not offended. I suppose actually I ought to be grateful, and I am" in a way. It's just that…forgive me...but I'm waiting for a better offer.
Absolutely.
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LEIGH: Do you want me to go there with you?
BEESLEY: I expect I do, yes.
LEIGH: You expect. But you're not certain. You haven't weighed every possible consequence.
BEESLEY: I scarcely dared think about it.
LEIGH: Then how can you be sure it's what you really want?
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See the signal she's sending to him?
LEIGH: But we're not in love, are we?I absolutely agree. But by this point, he's said that his steward's suggestion was "awful", as if he thinks that the idea of them hooking up for sex is awful. And I don't think it would be casual sex because they've built a relationship of sorts by this point. After he says that the steward says "there's an empty cabin at the far end of the corridor", she asks "Did he give you a key" to which Lawrence replies "There is no key it's unlocked, then comes the first excerpt you posted. LEIGH: Do you want me to go there with you?
(He looks away.)
Well, are we?
BEESLEY (quietly): No, I don't expect we are.
LEIGH: Of course not. Either way, I'm told the same rule applies. Shipboard friendships, like shipboard romances, end with the voyage. It's considered bad form to pursue it any further.[quote]
Again, what is the signal she's sending to him? She's asked leading questions where she says that they're friends and then says "we're not in love", following it up by an expectation of a confirmation. It wasn't a question. It was a statement and request for confirmation.
She's asked leading questions where she says that they're friends and then says "we're not in love", following it up by an expectation of a confirmation. It wasn't a question. It was a statement and request for confirmation.Lawrence's tentative innuendo follows Leigh talking about how "I'm sure I'll remember this night for a very long time." He's rebuffed her, and the "better offer" she's looking for is a man who will love her and want to be with her.
Can I add something to this discussion? I talked about this scene several years ago with a friend (a female friend).
She and I had both seen S.O.S. TITANIC and we were discussing the scene where the steward has left a cabin unlocked for them. I can't find the exact moment on YouTube, but, in turning down Lawrence's offer (of sex), Leigh says that she is looking for something better. There is a pause, and Lawrence says, "And so you should." Being stupid, and a man, I thought that was a put-down towards Lawrence, however, my friend responded that it was not an insult. She suggested that Leigh was looking for more than just ship board romances and ship board friendships, but something more permanent. According to her interpretation, when Lawrence said, "And so you should", he realized that she wanted more than he was ready to give -- a long term relationship ending in marriage.
I know that this has already been referred to, but I thought I'd give a woman's perspective. (To be honest, I couldn't argue against her conclusions. To be honest, I had to agree with her.)
Spin
I think your friend is probably right, ljspin.
shareTo be honest, I couldn't argue against her conclusions. To be honest, I had to agree with her.
[Lawrence] was probably not so great in the sackWhat makes you say that? share
You think Lawrence was a manimal? Really? I think he probably just kind of laid there and moaned softly.
As much fun as a political fundraiser I'm sure.
I don't think anything about Lawrence's sexual expertise or style one way or the other, simply because there's NO way to tell what he's like in bed based on what we see and know in the film, which is why I was wondering why you were making any kind of statements about what he was like "in the sack."
shareGreat. Well, thanks for the question. Have a good day. Enjoy the boards!
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