MovieChat Forums > Rocky II (1979) Discussion > Rocky BETTER than Apollo?

Rocky BETTER than Apollo?

posted 9 years ago by creatorof2002
11 replies | jump to latest

Many have said that Apollo was the better boxer, pointing out that he was winning and that his trainer told him to just cover up, stall for time and wait for the time to run out and win on points, his ego cost him the fight because he was in a hurry to get the knockout and instead the knockout got him.

That might be true but....

I firmly believe that the scene in Rocky 3 where Rocky surpasses Apollo when they are racing on the beach symbolized Rocky evolving beyond Apollo. Just being able to run faster than someone does NOT make you a better boxer, if that was the case olympic sprinters and marathon runners would be beating up boxers but I believe it was movie symbolism. Plus he beat Clubber Lang in round 3 of what was supposed to be a 15 round fight. It is possible that Creed could have beaten Clubber too (though I think he is about five years older than Rocky?) but that easily, in only 3 rounds? I think by the end of the movie Rocky had racked up enough of a "resume" that it would be safe to say he had evolved beyond (surpassed) Apollo, plus in the next movie he defeated Ivan Drago and Apollo did not even make it through round 2 against the same fighter.

Apollo wanted another rematch with Rocky and I saw a comment in Creed that it happened "behind closed doors" but that was probably a friendly sparring match or something because I do not think either one of them health wise could endure another fight like Rocky 1 or 2. I firmly believe that had they had an official rematch after the events of Rocky 3 that Rocky would have won with only moderate difficulty. Not an easy or effortless victory no but not neck and neck either like the first 2, Rocky would have an obvious upper hand and Apollo would get hurt much worse than Rocky, my guess is if the fight was scheduled for fifteen rounds Rocky wins by knockout within the first 9 or 10.

I almost think the first 4 films were a story arc about Rocky evolving beyond Apollo

[–] jsl_99 9 years ago

Rocky obviously was not a better technical boxer than Apollo. But his overall toughness and heart is what got him to ultimately surpass Apollo. And Apollo played a crucial role in keeping Rocky going since he was about to call it a career after losing to Clubber. Apollo partially wanted to get his own personal revenge on Apollo but he also sensed with the right training Rocky could win the rematch.

[–] creatorof2002 9 years ago

You mean revenge on Clubber Lang for being such a jerk and badmouthing Apollo? Instead of fighting Lang himself Apollo trained Rocky to do it for him?

Anyway, my point is that its even possible that Rocky surpassed Apollo in the "technical" sense because Apollo trained him damned well. I still say if they had had a 3rd fight after Rocky 3 that Rocky would have won with only medium difficulty. For it to be possible to beat Drago he had to have evolved beyond Apollo.

A shame we never got to see an Apollo vs Lang fight.

Would Lang vs Drago be an interesting fight? (if the tradeoff was Lang in his prime vs a 45 year old version of Drago?)

[–] jsn_hylnd 9 years ago

I always felt that Rock wouldn't have such a difficult time against Apollo the third time considering he had his own abilities (his strength, his ability to take a great beating) but now he had technical skills learned from Apollo.

[–] Olahn 8 years ago

Rocky's strength is his heart and ability to take a beating.

Apollo was always better... Always.

But Apollo was declining... Whilst Rocky was just unleashing his potential after years of being stuck in 3rd gear.... So he had plenty left.. Apollo was spent, meaning his body was getting worse not better, whilst Rocky's body still had plenty to give.

[–] Dark_Sithlord 8 years ago

Agree. If Rocky hadn't wasted many of his early years as a lazy bum, 3rd tier fighter, or as Gazzo's hired muscle, who knows how great he could have been. But as it was, Apollo was always the better fighter. If Rocky had faced Apollo when Apollo was in his prime, I don't think it would have been close.

[–] rickjames2505-677-364956 8 years ago

rocky's strength was the neanderthal genes in him. Big dumb and could take so many hits because theres nothing inside that skull of his

[–] I-theDamnedThing-I 8 years ago

Apollo was the better boxer with the better legacy. He split a series with Rocky in Rocky's prime when he was past it and at the end of his career. His win over Rocky in the first movie is actually the most impressive victory in the series. Rocky was great, but outside of splitting his series' against old Creed and limited slugger, Clubber Lang, his record is composed mostly of club fighters and low level contenders. The lost to the best fighters he faced, even though he managed to avenge those defeats. Let's also not forget about the other 20 losses on his record. The win over Drago was impressive, but Drago was barely out of the amateurs and only had one win over a totally shot Apollo Creed.

[–] imustkillthequeen 8 years ago

Rocky was 29-30 for the Apollo fights, that's outside the range that is generally considered the prime of a professional heavyweight. This was especially true in the 70s.

Rocky owns the only KO in the Apollo-Rocky series and was a punch or two away from flooring Apollo in the first fight, when he was virtually out on his feet.

[–] I-theDamnedThing-I 8 years ago

29-30 could be right around a pro heavy weights prime, it varies depending on the fighter. The real Rocky was around this age or older when he turned in his career best performances. Another Rocky inspiration, Duran, was about this age when he got his career best win over Ray Leonard. I think Frazier was only a couple of years younger when he beat Ali. It's not uncommon for a fighter to hit their peak in their late 20's or early 30's.

Rocky still only won their second fight by the skin of his teeth, he made the count by like one second. He couldn't drop Creed without going down himself. How far away Rocky was from flooring Creed in the first fight is irrelevant. He didn't. He lost. Creed won. Creed beat peaking future ATG Rocky Balboa in one of his last fights when he was past his prime, had barely trained and he even stayed on his feet after having his ribs broken. Most impressive win in the series. Balboa barely managed to beat a badly faded Creed in his final bout even after giving what was one of his career best performances, he lost nearly every round and almost knocked himself out at the end.

[–] fourniera65 (144) a year ago

Rocky is not better than Apollo at fighting at all. He just has so much heart that Apollo realizes he will never beat him...Look when they both are trying to get up in the final round. Apollo looks over at him and basically realizes that no matter how much he punches Rocky. Rocky will never stay down and Apollo realizes that his time is over as Champ.

[–] strntz (12470) 8 months ago

Here's the answer: Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Now, you can say that since Rocky beat Apollo in the second fight and arguably in the first, he's the better fighter. But no matter how good any fighter is, there's someone who can beat him. So someone you beat before can beat the guy who beat you...

In other words, despite Apollo being the better boxer, Rocky's few limited skills were exactly what were Apollo's kryptonite.