MovieChat Forums > Minder (1979) Discussion > Better than 'Only Fools...'

Better than 'Only Fools...'

posted 18 years ago by ianst1977
25 replies | jump to latest

Does anyone else think Minder is far superior to 'Only Fools and Horses'?
I can't remember whether the programmes were ever considered 'rivals' as such. Yet the similarities are striking. London wideboy (Arthur/Del Boy) has a straight sidekick (Terry/ Rodney)and a confidant (Dave the Barman/ Grandad or Uncle Albert). The wideboy drinks in a local (Winchester/ Nag's Head) and is involved in nefarious activities (particlularly the sale of hooky goods) and has to keep two steps ahead of the law.
Minder started in '79, a full two years before Only Fools. I appreciate that the format is different- Minder is a one hour 'comedy drama' and Only Fools a 30 minute sitcom. Yet I can't help feeling that Only Fools has garnered the praise simply because the BBC has treated it better than ITV treated Minder. The BBC constantly repeats its classic sitcoms (eg Dad's Army, The Good Life, Fawlty Towers, The Office- even Keeping Up Appearances!), yet ITV as a commercial station never repeats its classics. That's why we only see The Saint, The Avengers, The Sweeney, The Professionals, Minder etc on 'Best of Gold Classic UK TV' digital channels etc!
Minder held its head up higher throughout its run too. Only Fools ended up so schmalzy and sickly- particularly when the Racquel and Cassandra characters took root. With the exception of the Terence/ Ray change, Minder kept the same basic formula for years.
And another thing, compare George Cole's portrayal of a London wideboy to that of 'Sir' David Jason. Why the hell does David Jason have a knighthood and not George Cole? Cole can act Jason off the screen. Let's not forget Cole was the protege of one of British cinema's greatest comedy actors- the late great Alistair Sim. David Jason was apprentice to the overrated Ronnie Barker. Hardly the same thing. Arthur Daley is eminently believable as a deluded wideboy, a superannuated spiv. David Jason simply does not convince as a Peckham wideboy.
I say it's time Minder was given the adulation it deserves. Let's boycott the maudlin, sentimental Only Fools and Horses and champion Minder as the phenomenon it truly is.

[–] NothingButTheBest 18 years ago

I think Minder is much funnier and better.

[–] martin-1078 18 years ago

Minder is by far the best show

[–] old-skool101 11 years ago

Its all the location shots that does it for me, which OFaH doesnt have many.

A good snapshot of eighties london before all the money poured in.

[–] adam-sowter 18 years ago

i don't think its fair to completely disreguard 'Only Fools and Horses' as it is an absolutley brilliant classic!! but in my opinion Minder is superior and is greatly underated as one of the greatest TV shows ever!! Arfur and Tel - sheer perfection!!

[–] whereissam 18 years ago

Sir George Cole rather than Sir David Jason George has been around a hell of a lot longer than Jason George used to be in st trinians and other classic saw a film the other day called Too Many Crooks Sid james terry thomas george cole great actors

[–] aitch-10 18 years ago

Both great shows...What have we got now..????

Aitch,

http://web.ask.co.uk/web?q=%22Harry+Fielder%22

[–] max-cady 18 years ago

Life On Mars, but it ain't London, is it?

Max

ARTHUR: A prince amongst wives!
TERRY: A princess even.

Minder on the Orient Express.

[–] duke-verity 18 years ago

Early Minder and early Only Fools are both great. Both shows arguably lost some of their edge when they softened their Spivvy lead characters. Both Arthur Daley and Del Trotter began as much harsher, more abrasive, selfish and often unpleasant petty career criminals (and both openly racist bigots, just listen to some of the things they both say in early uncut episodes of both shows!).

When Daley and Del became archetypal go-getting cockney chancer folk heroes during the mid eighties, there was a noticeable toning down of the harsher elements. The public want their folk heroes to be loveable rogues, hence both characters being de-fanged and changed from the selfish, manipulative sh**s they originally were into more sentimentally portrayed diamond geezer types.

Favourite Minder quote... when Terry is in bed with a 'bird', being interrupted by Arthur repeatedly banging on his front door!
"No wicked for the peaceful!".

[–] marktayloruk (2507) 3 years ago

They should have combined them.

[–] bettywhait06 18 years ago

Funny you should say that, as Only Fools And Horses was given the go-ahead by the BBC as they saw it as their answer to Minder, which was already a huge success. The early Only Fools however, were not instant ratings winners, and the BBC nearly pulled the plug, but word of mouth soon got round that Only Fools was one of the funniest things on TV and it snowballed from there. Don't think you can compare them from there though, as both shows went off into totally different directions. I always thought that the Channel 4 comedy drama PROSPECTS was the new Minder - it is made by the same people and the writer also did episodes of Minder. Check that out if you haven't seen it, it's hilarious and brilliant.

[–] max-cady 18 years ago

Yeah, I loved that show. The late great Gary Olsen and Brian Bovell and what a cracking good theme tune by Ray Dorset. So good, I bought the 45".

The sun sets on the Thames Another day comes due-ing in...

Max
There's no justice. Just us.

[–] bettywhait06 18 years ago

I bought the single and also a couple of years ago got the album off e-bay!

Probably the best comedy drama I have ever seen!

[–] duke-verity 18 years ago

Leon Griffiths (Minder) and John Sullivan (Only Fools) both originally devised their shows as being street level, rather gritty comedy dramas. The early episodes of both shows reflect that notion. It has been noted in studies on both shows (and by Griffiths and Sullivan themselves) that by the mid eighties there was a softening of that approach and a definite softening of the principal characters in order to make them gentler and more palatable to family audiences as both shows climbed the ratings.

Yes of course the two series went off in different directions, but there were certain parallels throughout the eighties as both folk hero characters came to popularly represent the aspirational go-getter values of the age. Their writers carefully cultivated a growing public affection for Arthur Daley and Del Trotter, and consolidated this by getting rid of a lot of the cruelty, the notably harsh racism and the misogynistic attitudes that had marked both of these characters in both shows early on.

Interestingly, both shows took three seasons each to become successful! Minder began in 1979 and only became a hit in 1982 during its third run of episodes. The success of Only Fools and rise to mainstream success during its own third series in 1983 is another parallel. What shows commissioned today would be given two full series as trial runs?

Yes, I remember the Channel 4 series PROSPECTS well. The street level gritty comedy is in some ways quite similar to early Minder. Hopefully this will be shown again or released on DVD.

[–] Damon_3388 17 years ago

I like 'Only Fools and Horses' a lot, but I have to say that 'Minder' is better.

Count me in as a fan of 'Prospects' as well. I discovered it on UKTV here in Australia a couple of years back, and watched the lone series that was made in the mid-80s right through. Very funny and very underrated in my opinion.

[–] PrickWithAFork 17 years ago

"Fools" started off well enough as a simple sitcom, but got inflated with its own self-worth (cringey scenes such as Del Boy with his new baby, talking tearfully to his mother in Heaven), and if I ever see that "falling through the bar" scene again, I will THROW someone through a bar!

Minder was always much better plotted (it had the advantage of the longer time slot) and never pretended to be anything it wasn't. It's still a great watch, whereas much of Fools has dated - does anyone find Trigger funny any more? And now that Boycey has done his character to death, it's hard to view him in the same light.

Minder, by knockout in the fifth round.

My body makes no moan
But sings on:
All things remain in God.

[–] wayneleeg 17 years ago

Even though there are similarities i feel they are quite a bit different, Minder even though it has humour is a much more serious drama, where has OFAH is much more a classic comedy show. And as for Del and his new baby scene. What was wrong with that ?? i thought that was a beautiful scene and very well done. Yes some of OFAH's scene's are a bit like a broken record. But as a whole its still an amazing show and it takes a much different route to Minder. I think its little unfair to compare them, because even though there are similarities i feel there quite a lot different.

[–] PrickWithAFork 17 years ago

You're right, it's like comparing apples and oranges.

The thing about Fools was that it started off as a simple, half-hour sitcom, and a brilliantly funny one at that. Then it seemed to get big ideas about itself, brought in the womenfolk (who totally neutered the show, in my opinion) and introduced a huge streak of sentimentality (eg, the baby scene). It had just moved away from its roots, that's all.

My body makes no moan
But sings on:
All things remain in God.

[–] cmb_uk 17 years ago

its like comparing Dad's Army to Allo Allo - one is an entirely artificial version of reality filled with cartoon-characters whilst the other creates a sense of warmth & reality from the characters as if they are far more real people.

Del Boy's Peckham universe to me seems as false & rickety as a tin-leg whilst Arfur & Terry's down at heel 1980's W.London manor of lock-ups , boozers , strippers & dodgy magazine shops seems by comparison a deliciously rich heightened reality one longs to step back in time into - much like one can with a modest stretch of the imagination envisage a quiet little back-water of England in WWII that was pretty much exactly like Walmington-on-Sea where alll those characters might just have actually lived.

BTW I notice the ITV4 versions have been edited for violence - I remember the episode where Terry takes a beating on a street & there was a clear close up of one of the thugs stamping on his hand with his heel - on the repeat it was cut ! & in the next scene he was walking around with a bandaged hand. Whats that all about ? Are we getting more sensitive these days or are they packing more adverts in ? Whose de-gritting Minder ? Can I have the original unadulterated progs as they were made please or is that too much to ask ?

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] MrTelly 12 years ago

Minder has aged better in my opinion.

Both shows had great catchphrases that are now part of everyday language in the UK. I regularly her Arthur's "'Er indoors" and "a nice little earner". And we all know "the world is your lobster".

OFAH showcased the use of "Plonker" that was in frequent use in the 80s and 90s but is less often heard now.

[–] buckaroobanzai50 12 years ago

Does anyone else think Minder is far superior to 'Only Fools and Horses'?

Anything is better than that crappo! Especially Minder.
I'm watching an episode of Minder right now, as it happens.

[–] McQueen1980 12 years ago

only fools and horses is comedy for the masses while minder is a quirky intelligent comedy drama. personally i have good time for both of them but i find that the two leads in minder are better actors while the two lads in only fools are better comedians. therein lies the subtle difference.

[–] garethfidler401 11 years ago

I love both shows, they're superb classic British telly. It's the characters that make the shows and both are excellent

[–] louiseculmer 10 years ago

i've always thought Only Fools and Horses was a bit of a ripoff of Minder, and i've never found it that funny. Minder was far superior. Agree with you about George Cole being a much better actor than Jason.