MovieChat Forums > Knots Landing (1979) Discussion > Season 9

Season 9

posted 11 years ago by Twilightnight
14 replies | jump to latest

Like many people in the UK I'm currently re-watching Knots and we are up to episode 6 of season 9. Having watched it before I honestly think this is when the show started to lose its way. Getting rid of Constance McCashin and Julie Harris was madness, both were missed terribly and vastly inferior actors were brought in. Another big loss was Doug Sheehan who played Ben (although David Jacobs has said that they wanted him back but couldn't find him!).

What I fail to understand is why they got rid of Constance, Doug and Julie because of budgeting issues but brought in the likes of Nicolette Sheridan, Michelle Phillips and the Williams family? Were those three on vastly superior wages to these new additions?

I know many cast members disliked the new producers (Lechowick and Latham) and I can see why. Laura's funeral episodes and the brilliant performances from William Devane in the following few episodes were the last truly great Knots episodes IMO. The show was very lucky that the core cast stuck it out until the end or else I think it would have tanked well before season 14.

[–] sjbradford 11 years ago

Constance McCashin had been on the show for 9 years, so when you factor in raises, she was likely making significantly more than than the newcomers. And when a show is in its ninth season, it needs new blood. I thought KL did a great job when it came to introducing new characters, when compared with its parent series, Dallas. Of course, Dallas was about a family and KL was about a locale, so in theory it was easier to introduce new people to KL. Julie Harris, as a veteran actress, was also likely making a very healthy salary. Too bad they couldn't keep her around on recurring (why couldn't they bring her back occasionally rather than bringing in Betsy Palmer as Val's aunt?). As for Doug Sheehan: I thought he left to do that NBC sitcom, Day By Day. It premiered less than a year after he left KL. But of the three you mentioned, he's the one who I would have wanted to stick around longer.

I know I'm in the minority, but I couldn't stand Laura. She had a personality like a wet dishrag. Never up, never happy, always complaining about something or making sarcastic remarks. In real life, someone like Sumner never would have gone for her. She was a huge downer.

[–] engle_james 11 years ago

I would say, based on reports at the time, that actors like Julie Harris and Constance McCashin made around $50,000 an episode, with Doug Sheehan probably close behind at around $30,000 an episode. Remember, those actors were on at the peak of KL's popularity, in terms of ratings. And they appeared in every episode, as per their contract. Cutting them and adding Nicolette Sheridan (who probably started off at $8,000 an episode at first) and characters like the Williams family, who also probably started off with that same type of salary AND only appeared in 15 episodes a season at first, and the show was saving a ton of money. There are literally episodes in seasons 7-8 where Harris and McCashin in particular only had one or two scenes per episode, but it was guaranteed in their contract that they would appear in each episode, so I can see why the producers cut them off. Replacing Harris with Betsy Palmer, same thing- less money and fewer episodes. It's a harsh reality but it made sense from a financial perspective.

[–] The-Bag-Lady 11 years ago

I am a UK viewer as well and have loved the show up until this season. I am bitterly disappointed about the exits of two of my favourite characters - Laura and Lilimae. I knew both left this season and that Laura was going to die but I expected to see a full season of her battling her illness and her actual deathbed scene so to find out she died off camera, only a handful of episodes in, was a major disappointment. I'm now no longer surprised that Constance McCashin distanced herself from the show after she left, as an original character she deserved much better treatment.

As for Lilimae's exit I felt that was completely out of character - there is absolutely no way she would have up and left Val shortly after Ben did, leaving her alone to raise the twins.

I think this probably marks the beginning of the end for the show unfortunately but I'll keep watching to see how it unfolds.

Carpe Diem!!!

[–] engle_james 11 years ago

I would encourage you to not give up, baglady. Although season 9 isn't one of my favorites, seasons 10, 11 and 12 are great, imo. Great characters like Paige, Linda, Jill, Danny, Anne, Jason, Julie, Claudia, and Harold are introduced or become important characters and add a lot to the show.

[–] Mark_Graisons_Moustache 11 years ago

Honestly, I'm surprised by this consensus, cuz Season 9 was probably my favorite season of the whole show, and I thought the 200th and 201st episodes were the best of the entire series. Plus, we have the AMAZING Jill Bennett really coming into her own and my fave cliffhanger ever.

[–] engle_james 11 years ago

I do think season 9 is good, just not my favorite. The problem for me was that it took a little while to warm up. Once Laura's funeral wraps up, the show seemed to, I don't know, kind of flounder just a little bit. I really disliked Johnny Rourke, so his 'romance' was Paige put me off. And Abby's renewed romance with Charles Scott also took a lot of screen time and was a bust. But once Jill starts putting her plans in motion and Manny Vasquez shows up, the season really picks up. I LOVED Karen buying that leather skirt and the look on Abby's face when she sees her in it!

[–] Twilightnight 11 years ago

It's interesting reading everyone's views, thanks for taking the time to reply.

I understand the financial constraints and the fact that Constance and Julie were big hitters salary wise, but I still think the show suffered dreadfully, and with Donna Mills also about to depart (after she complained about the writing) it did seem to lose it's soul.

With regards to some of the newer characters, I did like Frank (was shocked and saddened when heard about Larry's death), and Harold, Manny and Ted were played by excellent actors.

I quite liked Jill but David Jacobs told Knots Landing.net that he didn't think her character worked very well, make of that want you will?

That said we are now up to season 12 and the decline is even worse, I'm not surprised the ratings began to fall away. The 'Sally's Friend' storyline was the worst ever, and the Mary Francis/Kate story was so unconvincing. Val's transformation is also hard to take seriously.

Thank goodness for the Jason/Mack storyline, Thomas Wilson Brown and Kevin Dobson were excellent in those episodes.

[–] jarrodmcdonald-1 11 years ago

I think Jill worked well in the beginning when she was pursuing Mack, then Gary. After she set up Val, and then she became a full-time cast member, there was nowhere for her to go. Viewers did not want her to keep getting away with undermining Val, and since there was no way to redeem her, she had to be killed off. So maybe David Jacobs is referring to the way she was written into a corner and could not work as a long-term character.

The Sally's Friend story was certainly dreadful. Because Teri Austin was still appearing on the opening credits, though Jill had been killed off, viewers thought she was going to be playing a new character, like Lisa Hartman had done earlier in the series. When it turned out that the woman on the phone was someone else, and that she was played by a rather dull actress, we weren't too interested.

The Jason/Mack storyline was one of the show's more socially relevant storylines-- but I think the reason it didn't work is because by this point, it seemed that with the adoption of Meg and now Jason, Karen had a whole new set of kids, and her previous family with Sid was all but forgotten. Fortunately, we saw her daughter Diana again in the last season, but her two sons were never mentioned again.

Also, I wanted to mention Val's aunt, who was brought on to fill the void with Lillimae's departure. This was another character that did not actually catch on and she was seen less and less. Eventually she just disappeared. It was obvious that the writers should have kept Julie Harris and Lillimae-- maybe used her part-time as a special guest star. Instead, we get this new character played by Betsy Palmer that had not even been previously mentioned and whose dialogue was exactly like Lillimae's, except the actress did not possess one-fifth the talent that Julie Harris had. It was a misfire.

The storyline with Abby and Charles Scott did not work, because I do not think Donna Mills and Michael York generated much chemistry together. But I did think this story was, at least on paper, a good one. It was nice to get more information about Abby's past, and why she turned out the way she did. The arrival of Charles Scott showed her in a more vulnerable light than she was with Gary. Maybe if they had cast a different actor, and there had been a bigger spark, it would have worked better. Soon after this, they started to pair her with Sumner, and that storyline definitely worked.

Val's transformation was ridiculous. This is why Joan Van Ark left, because she thought Val was becoming the village idiot, and it's true, she was! There was one episode where Gary takes the twins to see her at some institution, and they are bouncing a soccer ball, and she goes off the rails. It was really a low point for the character. I think the writers were running out of ideas for Gary and Val at this point. She had married Ben, then Danny, and now she was finally reconciled with Gary. All the writers could do was make Gary a drunk again or else make Val crazy. It was silly. Then, when Val disappears in the last season, they put him with the much younger Kate Whittaker, which seemed a bit forced. Fortunately, Val returned to Gary and the twins as the show ended.

[–] Twilightnight 11 years ago

You summed that up really well Jarrod!

Still, having sat through half of season 12, season 9 now looks far better!

It's interesting that Mills, Van Ark and Lynne Moody (Pat) all complained about the writing during the last few seasons. With Pat Petersen saying he was unhappy towards the end too.

It's actually quite sad watching season 12 and realising it gets much worse, but as mentioned earlier in the thread keeping most of the core cast just about kept it watchable.

[–] jarrodmcdonald-1 11 years ago

Thanks! I mentioned in another post that I felt season 13 was the worst. That was the season where Anne (Paige's mother) became homeless, and where Paige had some new boyfriend named Pierce who turned out to be a killer. John Romano had been brought on board as the Executive Producer that year and it was obvious he did not understand the show's core characters. David Jacobs relieved him of his duties after 15 episodes. The last 7 episodes and the rest of the series (all of season 14) was taken over by Ann Marcus, and the show dramatically improved. But the Williams were out, the character of Jason was written out and of course Joan Van Ark (Val) had exited. Knots was lucky to be renewed for the 14th season, but with it, came a reduced episode order (only 19) and budget cuts. Although the ratings did go up with those episodes, William Devane and Nicolette Sheridan had grown tired of the series and decided to leave...so it became the final season.

[–] fentress 10 years ago

This brief post is one I strongly agree with. It's funny the different schools of thought about the seasons of KL. I can understand the OP's disappointment. I too felt season 9 floundered a bit after Laura's funeral, but it does finish strong. And I too like seasons 10, 11, and 12 the best. Those seasons had a different feel to them. They were more cinematic. I like the look and background music and tone of the show in those seasons. There's more humor and more reflective moments. There's more to those seasons than just the plot machinations, good as those are. Danny was a delicious villain, and the process of Gary and Val re-uniting is great to see.

I actually have never watched season 13 though. Everything I've heard is so negative that I've never wanted to risk having little to show for the time invested in it. Maybe some day.

[–] Zingbot_9000 10 years ago

I knew both left this season and that Laura was going to die but I expected to see a full season of her battling her illness and her actual deathbed scene so to find out she died off camera, only a handful of episodes in, was a major disappointment.

I remember at the time the actress that played Laura did not want her character to die. They probably would have filmed a death scene but I do not think she wanted to film it. In fact, I think the actress kind of got blackballed afterwards because she did not do what the writers wanted her to do. That is what I remember. She also did not want to participate in any reunions.

As for the other characters, as for Ben the goal was always to get Val and Gary together again.

I know eventually Joan Van Ark left the show. It would have taken some creative writing to keep Ben. The actor who played Ben did land a new job after his role ended.

As for Jill Bennett. Loved that character. I wish they never turned her evil, but she was great evil. Again, the goal was to get Gary and Val back together.

...............ZING!

[–] radrobd 10 years ago

"I remember at the time the actress that played Laura did not want her character to die. They probably would have filmed a death scene but I do not think she wanted to film it. In fact, I think the actress kind of got blackballed afterwards because she did not do what the writers wanted her to do. That is what I remember. She also did not want to participate in any reunions. "

Actually, for the record, Constance McCashin did return for "The Knots Landing Block Party" retrospective which aired right before the 2-hour series finale in 1993. Subsequently, not only did not participate in the 1997 mini-series reunion, her image was blurred and another actress voice dubbed over her videotaped message to Greg, which was Laura's final episode in season 9.

[–] LAtvGuy 9 years ago

Subsequently, not only did not participate in the 1997 mini-series reunion, her image was blurred and another actress voice dubbed over her videotaped message to Greg, which was Laura's final episode in season 9.

One of the many things that made "Knots Landing: Back to the Cul-de-Sac" difficult to sit through. That and watching Val and Karen dance around while singing "I'm Henry the Eighth I Am ".