A kid's film? - Wizards (1977) Discussion

[–] beingthehero 15 years ago

That's the way Ralph rolls.

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[–] Lightning-Rose 15 years ago

American society may have been less puritanical in the late 70's, but even by those standards I wouldn't have considered "Wizards" to be a "family" film.

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[–] cultfilmfreaksdotcom 11 years ago

Not sure I'd call America "puritanical," at least not since the 1950's when that was the norm, but this was no children's film, it's a bloody anti-war Anthem for adults or, at the very least, stoned teens.

And My Movie Reviews www.cultfilmfreaks.com

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[–] leviathan7734 15 years ago

When compared with what most parents view as acceptable for their children to watch, I think "Wizards" is harmless, honestly. By modern standards, it's not going to be any more scary than a film like "9", though Bakshi's film actually carries a pretty timeless message and a definite sense of morality. Sure there are scantily clad fairies in the film, but it's a fantasy film. I actually remember being much more unnerved by Don Bluth's "Secret of Nimh" back in '82 than any of the imagery in "Wizards" when my folks took me to see it at a second run theater that same year, of course that's just me. In retrospect, though, I would have no problem with my kids sitting through this movie at all, at least no more of an issue than allowing them to see The Rankin and Bass "Hobbit" and follow it up with Bakshi's "Lord of the Rings"... sounds like a good family night triple feature to me!

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[–] bitch-22 15 years ago

My family enjoyed it. I saw it with my parents and kid brother.

It's a charming adventure/fantasy with a pretty good lesson. I can tell you that most of the adult references flew right over our heads when we were little. I was surprised how much I didn't get when I saw it again as an adult.

"Rock is dead! Long live Paper and Scissors!"

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[–] TalesfromTheCryptfan 15 years ago

Can't be worse then some anime even hentai like Urotsukidoji, now some of that is X-rated stuff.

"You gotta be Fking kidding"-The Thing.

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[–] jic-1 15 years ago

But nobody claimed that stuff was aimed at families or children.

Movies I've Seen: http://imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=25003655

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[–] JessPumpkQueen 15 years ago

I don't buy his argument that it's a family film. I think the story is very simple in a way that is expected in family film, but the idea that it's actually intended for kids suggests to me that he was a little out of touch. It's a just too violent and hypersexualized. At least 9 is a PG-13 movie, so it's not like they advertise it as a children's movie. That's not to say that I don't think any child should watch Wizards; I think that parents need to make their own decisions about what they think their children can take. But this isn't one of those movies that I would suggest to most people with kids, which is usually what I think of when I think of a good family film.

I didn't like this one as a kid because I thought it was boring. I wasn't a big fan of high fantasy as a kid, though, so that part isn't Bakshi's fault. I do like it a little more as an adult. But was I really bothered by the visuals? I guess I was put off by the NAZI imagery and that one scene when Elinore was kidnapped by those fairies screamed "bondage" to me even when I was barely old enough to understand what the meant, but I wouldn't say it bothered me too terribly. Again, it really depends on the individual.

~Jess~
It's gotta be rock and roll music, if you want to dance with me.

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[–] jic-1 15 years ago

I agree with you almost completely, except that I think it is Bakshi's fault that it's boring.

To be fair, there was no such thing as a PG-13 movie when it was released. That's why, in the '70s and early '80s, you get some surprisingly 'hard' PGs and 'soft' Rs. But even so, the idea of this guy putting in all that sexuality, violence, and vulgar language, and thinking 'this is perfect for the kids!' is hilarious.

Movies I've Seen: http://imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=25003655

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[–] JessPumpkQueen 15 years ago

Yeah, I think Indiana Jones was the reason they created the rating. But certainly, some of these movies are part of the reason that the rating was necessary.

~Jess~
It's gotta be rock and roll music, if you want to dance with me.

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[–] preppy-3 15 years ago

"Gremilns" also pushed the need for a new rating. "Poltergeist" was another. Personally I would never let a kid see "Wizards". It's too violent and Elinore is WAY too scantly dressed.

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[–] Aylmer 15 years ago

what's the problem with letting kids see people scantily dressed or even naked for that matter? Really, I mean, think about it... I remember seeing nudity in a bunch of kids films from the 70's like SINBAD AND THE EYE OF THE TIGER and just not even really paying it any attention. Now if it was sexually explicit (like depicted sex acts or genetalia), that would be one thing, but I don't see anything wrong with nudity. At worst it'd just make kids uncomfortable.

I saw this movie at age 10 and actually found at the time the nazi and fantasy stuff the sole saving grace of the film. I found the animation and voice acting to be awfully crude and the whole experience just awfully dull, save for a few bits of comedy that made me LOL with my friends later on the playground. We'd run around shouting "They Killed Fritz!" pretty regularly from what I remember. Since then of course I've come to appreciate the film on a whole different level, but no, you'd never catch me calling it a particularly good movie.

The scantily clad fairy made little impression on me at the time, but then again it'd be a couple more years before the hormones would kick in. It just wasn't interesting like all the violence and war stuff was so I tuned it out. So no, I think there is nothing wrong with kids seeing fairy women in thong bikinis. Nothing what-so-ever.

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[–] preppy-3 15 years ago

OK--maybe SOME kids wouldn't be affected. I remember seeing a lesbian love scene in "The Vampire Lovers" when I was 8 and it didn't bother me. However I've seen kids react strongly sometimes to it. I remember a bunch of teenage boys--couldn't have been more than 12--LOUDLY getting grossed out by Kate Winslet's topless nude scene in "Titantic".

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[–] FloatingOpera7 15 years ago

Wizards is NOT A KID'S MOVIE or FAMILY FILM.

Bakshi was behind the adult pornographic cartoon Fritz the Cat earlier in the 70's. This is probably why he has a character in Wizards named Fritz. The trademark nudity is here - as shown in the character of Elinor the fairy and also in the German singing lounge singer who begins to strip for the Nazi mutants. I think there were a few other sexual innuendo in the film and the most blatant is at the end of the film. Avatar, who is very old compared to the young Elinor, have married and are off to live as a new couple. He says to her "Let's make it." "Avatar, you're getting older but much bolder." "I didn't mean it that way. I meant let's make it out of here." "Sure you did" LOL Clearly this was a sexual joke and this coming as the film ends.
Don't forget the foul language: "son of a bitch", which Avatar uses when he kills Blackwolf by shooting him with a gun. Who knows what other adult material was shown in the original cut, as most films contain additional scenes that get removed for time and for the final edited cut.

The violence in this film is pretty graphic for it's time, the battle scene was bloody and very scary and would have traumatized certain sensitive children of either the 70's or the 80's. For me, the animated film WATER SHIP DOWN was by far the most shocking. It depicted the slaughter of rabbits by humans in tractors and showed an entire field fill up with blood. I think this movie has language and themes that are too adult. The Nazi imagery - the Swastika, footage of Nazi rallies and battle scenes of World War 2 that featured machine guns, tanks and airplanes, really was very adult. I did not learn about Hitler and the Holocaust until I was in high school. So I would not recommend this movie to very small kids. It's clearly made by an adult for adults or for teenagers.

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[–] preppy-3 15 years ago

You're right--"Watership Down" WAS more shocking. You're forgetting about the scenes where one rabbit was almost killed by a wire around its neck, the two rabbits clawing at each other and the dog that (graphically) kills a few rabbits. But (like "Wizards") it was an animated film and the ratings board seemed to go easy on those. "Heavy Metal" especially deserved an X rating but got an R.

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[–] pacificboy 10 years ago

"Heavy Metal" especially deserved an X rating

Um, no. There's violence and nudity in the film, but not to the point of an X rating.

"You liked Rashomon."
"That's not how I remember it."

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[–] pacificboy 10 years ago

"Heavy Metal" especially deserved an X rating

Um, no. There's violence and nudity in the film, but not to the point of an X rating.

"You liked Rashomon."
"That's not how I remember it."

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[–] coex 12 years ago

My 10 year old son just recently saw two John Waters films!! Yes, the director of the infamous Pink Flamingos also made some really funny family films called Cry Baby and Hairspray. Both films had plenty of really subversive things in them that easily went past any child watching as well as past most "straight" adults. So, denying a child the chance to see Wizards because of Bakshi's other films seems an odd approach to me.

My son also loves "pornographer" Bakshi's Mighty Mouse. Do you think it will f-up his development?

Also, incidentally, in the mid 70s, when I was in 3rd grade, we all knew about WWII and it's horrors. Lots of books in our small little elementary school library full of really graphic photos too! In 5th grade, I did a report on the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Sorry you missed out on that! Reality is pretty grim at times, and to deny intelligent children that truth seems potentially more damaging to me.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] GrownUpKid 14 years ago

I can't picture the family that would be interested in watching this together on movie night. Just because something isn't Rated R doesn't make it a family or kids' film. Now, Lord of the Rings could probably pass as a family film but this isn't one of those movies with something for everyone.

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[–] bitch-22 14 years ago

My brother and I were kids when this film came out, and we loved it. My parents didn't have any problem with it.

It's a pretty clear cut good vs evil story, and a lot of the more adult references when right over our heads back then.

"Rock is dead! Long live Paper and Scissors!"

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[–] TalesfromTheCryptfan 14 years ago

They make these kinds of cartoons all the time even violent/sexual ones like Urotsukidoji: Legend of the Overfiend to hentai.

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[–] j-c-s-f-akkerman 14 years ago

slightly missing the point I think. Those anime are pure horror and are advertised as such. never ever has anyone suggested that legend of the Overfiend was family entertainment!!

In contrast "My neighbour Totoro" is a pure feel-good kids film. No blood, death or anything remotely disturbing in sight.

Also Anime is more a medium than a genre. We in the West get hung up on the idea that just because its animated it has to be only for kids!

Back to the topic of "wizards" being family-fun. I've listened to the commentary and Bakshi continually refers to it as a family film, despite the disturbing imagery, scantily clad women, fairies and elves getting machine-gunned, blood spilling everywhere, swastikas and SS imagery.
So no, the PG rating the dvd gets is not appropriate.
More so for the violence than the nudity. Watching back at shows I've seen when I was small, a lot would now be considered too rude for young children, so don't worry about the nudity, the violence is a bit too strong.

Comparing "wizards" to Bakshi's other projects, I can understand why he would consider this more of a childrens film

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[–] blakgard 14 years ago

I was 11-12 when I saw it. There's absolutely nothing in this film from which parents should protect their children. On top of that, it's a very intelligent.

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[–] linda23slovik 10 years ago

Shaking my head.

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