MovieChat Forums > The Goodbye Girl (1977) Discussion > Possible Spoiler: Critque of RIII

Possible Spoiler: Critque of RIII

posted 14 years ago by bravehome
4 replies | jump to latest

Anybody else pick up on the fact that Neil Simon (through the persona of a stage critic) misidentified Elliot as the Wicked Witch of the North?

"It never occurred to us that William Shakespeare wrote the 'Wizard of Oz'. However, Elliot Garfield makes a splendid Wicked Witch of the North."

In Baum's Oz series the witch of the North was always a good one, and in the Movie Glinda portrays the Good Witch of the North (though in the books she is the Good Witch of the South, and the North witch is either Locasta [from the stage play by Baum] or Tattypoo [from Ruth Thompson's Oz novels] but is in both still a good witch).

[–] sidgirl 14 years ago

"Wicked Witch of the North" isn't just a reference to The Wizard of Oz, it's a bit of a play on it; Richard III was the Duke of Gloucester (in the north of England) and was very, very popular and well-liked there. In fact, when he was killed in battle the city chronicle of York wrote of it thusly: "King Richard, late mercifully reigning upon us, was ... piteously slain and murdered, to the great heaviness of this city." Which was quite brave of them, really, considering how Henry Tudor's men were slaughtering Yorkists and Yorkist supporters left right and center, but that's beside the point.

Anyway, Richard was born in the north, lived there for much of his life, ruled large sections of it, and so was strongly associated with the north in general.

So in calling him "the Wicked Witch of the North," Simon is essentially just doing a little wordplay. Richard wouldn't have been the Wicked Witch of the West, because he was from the North. See?

[–] kylopod 14 years ago

If I recall, Simon had used this line already in The Odd Couple, in the mouth of Oscar Madison (he goes "Oh bless you and thank you, Wicked Witch of the North" to Felix). That made sense, because one of the running gags was that Oscar was always getting the details of things wrong, to Felix Unger's annoyance (like in the famous scene when he refers to linguini as spaghetti). As for Goodbye Girl, I didn't catch how it was a sly reference to Richard III, I just saw it one of those smartass remarks critics like to use when skewering an actor.

[–] theoutsidersgirl 14 years ago

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[–] sidgirl 14 years ago

Hey, I replied to your PM yesterday, did you not get it?

I'm new, please be kind!