MovieChat Forums > The Goodbye Girl (1977) Discussion > Paula Vs. Elliott

Paula Vs. Elliott

posted 19 years ago by paramitch
24 replies | jump to latest

I'm with those who really like this movie, but I think Paula's character is what flaws it enough to make it really unpleasant in places. (I remember reading a review years later -- I think it was Ebert -- who said that she made the movie so mean-spirited he couldn't forgive her even by the end of the movie.)

Well, me too. I just can't stand her. She's absolutely awful to this guy, who is pretty great about the entire situation from day 1. While the movie does attempt to set up a backstory of why she hates all men (her boyfriend leaving her, subletting, etc), the way it's played to me is all wrong. Instead of coming across as a basically nice person at heart, Marsha Mason plays here with such a bitchy, whiny, entitled, mean-spirited edge, I'm never really rooting for them to get together. When counterpointed against what a genuinely likeable and kind person Elliott is, it just makes her seem even more awful.

The best example to me is the scene when Paula's purse is snatched, and she totally blames Elliott and is a staggering jerk to him for absolutely no reason (er, I guess because he was going to be nice and buy some Chianti, whatever). He then tries to make it up to her by going after the thieves, is nearly killed, and is she grateful? Nope. She's even more of a jerk when he returns.

Paula does this the entire film (see also the scene when he lends her some rent money and asks her to be nicer to him -- she immediately treats him like a jerk again). It always cracks me up that the one time in the movie that Paula is actually semi-nice and apologetic to Elliott, he falls asleep before she even says it. So he missed the one scene where she was nice to him.

I always wondered if this was a choice by Marsha Mason, to play her this hard-edged, or if she was directed to do so. I do think Mason can be wonderful, but I just found it weird that she is so flat and unlikeable in this, looks terrible (and I usually think she's really pretty), and is supposed to be the person we are rooting for.

I like the movie (it's funny and Dreyfuss and Cummings are awesome), but I still think Paula got way lucky with this guy. Elliott deserved better.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] paramitch 19 years ago

I think it's meant to be that he sees the good and yearning and basically hopelessly romantic person underneath Paula. I just am never quite convinced she's all that sweet or nice, even way deep down.

But -- hey, it's a sweet funny movie, so all is good. I do think your points are interesting and that Elliott may have been sold on Paula and her daughter as a package deal. Maybe he never would have taken that crap from Paula alone, but her daughter is so funny, smart, and great -- the perfect and ready-to-adopt kid -- that he lets it slide. He gets a whole family instantly by falling in love with Paula. He is insecure no longer -- he is accepted and safe.

Oh, and I love the subplot of the little girl's best friend, who thinks he has "charisma." I totally had a crush on Richard Dreyfuss in this just like Cynthia Fine (hee), and I was all of, like, 11 years old.

[–] Isaac5855 19 years ago

I must agree that the character of Paula isn't terribly likeable at the beginning of the movie and that her initial treatment of Elliott is deplorable, but I understand it to a moment. I think Paula was taking out a lot of her resentment toward Tony on Elliott. Paula had been preparing to start a brand new life in California with Tony and he just dumped her...she was justifiably upset and bitter and hateful of all men. Any man would have been treated the same way by Paul under those circumstances. What I never understood was why Elliott could fall in love with a woman who treated him like that.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] paramitch 19 years ago

He's an actor. He's used to being treated like crap.

(KIDDING!)

[–] fantaglow 19 years ago

I thought that Elliott started as a good guy in the phone booth in the rain then became a big cocky actor guy (reminded me of my drama teacher) until he got drunk and then I started liking him again. Paula got on my nerves too but they were ok later

- we interrupt this program to increase dramatic attention -

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] ijones-9 19 years ago

I guess we saw the character differently because I don't recall Elliott as ever becoming cocky. True, he allowed Paula and Lucy to stay in the apartment which legally really was his and he agreed to cover living expenses once the show opened until Paula got a job. OK, he did brag about his acting experience to Lucy in that one scene at the dinner table, but as for his approaching opening night of RICHARD III, Elliott was anything but cocky because he was totally freaking out about the way his character was being directed. If anyone needed to be taken down a few pegs, it was Paula who wa insufferably rude to Elliott, who graciously allowed them to stay in the apartment even when he didn't have to.

[–] missygoldstein 19 years ago

I agree. I love this movie, just saw it a few days ago after my first time probably 20 years ago. She was insecure and neurotic and kinda bitchy. When her purse was stolen and she said "you're not going after them"? He said "after a moving car" and then he did actually chase them and she still wasn't satisfied. I thought this was her consistant attitude throughout the movie which annoyed me a bit.

[–] n8_z_gr8 19 years ago

Since most of Neil Simon's works are autobiographical in nature, and since he was married to Marsha Mason at the time, she was, in effect, playing herself. It is interesting to speculate as to whether the 'hard edge' you referred to was written for her, by Simon, or recollections of their relationship, at that point. What do you folks think?

[–] ijones-9 19 years ago

If you want to see a Neil Simon film where Marsha Mason is actually playing herself, you need to see CHAPTER TWO. This film is about the closest to an autobiographical film that Simon has written...at least about his adult life. BRIGHTON BEACH MEMOIRS and BILOXI BLUES were supposedly based on his childhood and his time in the military.

[–] paramitch 11 years ago

Interesting thought! I just saw your post, apologies, and I just wanted to note that over the past several years, I've paid attention to what she's been working on, and that I think that real-life Marsha Mason is a pretty amazing person.

She is still beautiful, she left Hollywood behind and has been working and living quietly in New Mexico, on organic and herbal crops and remedies (etc), and in the "60 Minutes" interview with her a few years back, I remember being so impressed with her impression of beauty and peace. She came across as a very down-to-earth person (literally) and with this incredible humility and vitality.

It's interesting -- either Paula was (1) fiction, (2) or a very early version of Marsha before she found herself, but by all accounts she's had one of the most fascinating post-Hollywood lives I can think of.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not.

[–] paramitch 13 years ago

I agree. Especially since that one scene is my main problem with the entire character of Paula. She is just so awful to him (even when he's being genuinely sympathetic to her terrible day, even going so far as to endanger himself through no fault of his own) -- that it's hard to redeem her -- he's almost killed.

I adore Mason in other roles, and think Dreyfuss is perfect. I just kind of wonder, to this day, if it might not have been better to pull a few punches and make Paula less hard-edged. Otherwise, I'm edging on feeling Mason was miscast. She's just so hard and mean, and he is just so... not.

Even his last dialogue in the movie, when she's nice to him over the phone, is that he "hopes [he has] the right number." That's harsh.

However, with that said, no remake has come remotely close. It will always remain a movie I love, just for Dreyfuss and Cummings. And honestly, I do wonder if Paula wasn't a thankless role -- I do love Mason by the end, in spite of everything.

And totally agree with other posters -- wonderful, bittersweet closing song to the film. Years later it was used, with imagination and sensitivity, in the show "Cold Case," and it unexpectedly brought me to tears. Just a lovely song.

[–] profir_ruxanda 18 years ago

I like Paula, I can understand her reasons for being bitchy most of the time in this movie and I think Elliott was able to see through that bitchy mask she was wearing and realize that she is indeed a nice person (with quite a difficult personality! lol)

[–] bravehome 14 years ago

Elliot: "Very sharp. That's sharp. That's very sharp. You're a sharp New York girl, right?"

Paula: "No a dull Cincinnati kid but you get dumped on enough and you start to develop an edge."

[–] don-lockwood 14 years ago

if you don't like the hard edge, you really shouldn't blame Mason but Simon since the lines of dialogue are all his.

[–] paramitch 10 years ago

I think Mason did the best she could, but that Paula's edges could have been smoothed just a bit. I don't mind unlikable characters at all, I just mind when they're unlikable and hostile yet somehow it's still "adorable," which I just didn't buy at all with Paula.

I love Mason as a performer, I just think there was room here for a more fragile, richer character than we got.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not.

[–] eadaoin7 12 years ago

I think bravehome's bringing up that one line says it all. It wasn't just Tony dumping her, but many others doing the same. She eluded to being "a sucker" for actors and romance. But if it keeps happening with bad results, one would develop a tough skin. Kind of like way older men who consistently go after way younger women and throw all their money on them, then get bitter when those younger women leave for younger and richer men - suddenly all women are "gold-digging b*tches", and the subsequent women in his life are doomed to a LOT of doubt and suspicion by that older man.

I think we all can identify in a way. Afetr any relationship breaks up, no matter how, we all feel a bit harder for a spell. We all start to doubt our ability to make a smart romantic decision. We all feel a little afraid to trust again. Many people reaqct to fear with anger as well. They feel very vulnerable being afraid, and get angry with themselves. Unfortunately it can spill onto the other person, even if they don't mean for it to. But about half-way through, I think Paula got the wake-up call she needed. Elliot was nice enough to let her have it! Meaning, he understood it enough to point out exactly how she was acting. She did make attempts to reparate. But they also were honest about how they were feeling - she admits that she's running her sweaty palms in cold water because of her feelings for him, but chastises herself for falling again - "When am I ever going to learn?"

Hey, falling in love is always scary no matter what we've been through. But it's never not worth going for.

[–] xdayton 12 years ago

The entire movie is based on the premise that Paula is bitter and resentful. Take that away and you don't have redemption. You don't even have a movie.

[–] paramitch 12 years ago

This is true, but I do think Simon could have written Paula with a little more nuance.

I think just two different scenes could have been a little more shaded, and I think it's a writing flaw, not so much Mason's fault as an actress: (1) I always hate that Elliott falls asleep during her one apologetic moment to him. And (2) I really wish she'd shown even the slightest twinge of gratitude and regret after he ran after her purse-snatchers. She's just so cruel to him and it's completely undeserved, and that one scene kind of colored the rest of their relationship for me. Sure, she's had tough times. But that scene, in which Elliott is being really kind (and even heroic, in a funny way) paints Paula as a person with a nasty edge, who is very comfortable blaming anyone else for what goes wrong in her life but herself.

There's a character with an edge, and then there's "this person is an @ss." And I think Paula unfortunately is the second.

It's still a cute story, I just always feel like she's really lucky in someone as laid-back and kind as Elliott, and that he can frankly do much better.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not."

[–] thelongestcircledance 11 years ago

I agree. If this guy showed up at my house, I'd be cooking him chicken dinners and giving him massages by day 2--but that wouldn't be as interesting a movie! She only resists him because she's been hurt so much, which makes sense, because he's cute as all hell, and it's terrifying to have and possibly lose someone so amazing.

She's an entitled little brat sometimes, but that's why the movie is so perfect--They both have flaws, but their chemistry makes it beautiful to watch them falling in love.

[–] paramitch 10 years ago

First off, I totally agree.

And secondly, thanks for an awesome post. I laughed out loud. I'm so with you on this one. It's part of the reason I carried a grudge against Paula. Elliott's such a sweet guy that it's kind of hard to watch her treat him so badly. (And as I mentioned, I have a thing for 70s-era Dreyfuss.)

I'm a little more forgiving of Paula years later (hee) -- it's easy for life to wear you down. And I agree that the ending does make it all worth it.

I also like that the ending is so much about Elliott being a Dad to the little girl as it is about him being with Paula. It's a nice touch, and Elliott's carriage ride with the little girl simply so he can explain to her the change in their living arrangements is one of the sweetest moments of the movie.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not.

[–] Druff 11 years ago

It must take one hell of a hard edged jerk to fail at the simple task of being able to sympathize with poor Paula, after all of the bullshti she had to cope with. To me one of the main points of the story was how close she came to not connecting with this awesome guy, because she had developed thick armor and other defense mechanisms after being screwed over so many times.

Not surprising Ebert didn't get it, the guy had a long history of being a misogynistic prick. What's your excuse?

[–] paramitch 11 years ago

As a woman, I definitely empathize with what Paula goes through. I really do. What I was commenting on is that the movie gives us very little room, and few moments, where she lets us in to do so. I think the fault of this lies with Simon's writing. The film is omniscient so why not give us a few more moments to add nuance and shading to Paula? Instead, even later on, we see Paula mentioning she likes married guys (including the one who leaves her early in the film), and whining that Elliott's bigger paycheck still didn't give her the living room she wanted.

My main point was that even after Elliott has repeatedly proven himself not just a nice guy, but a real sweetheart, Paula is still a jerk to him. Which is her right, but it's not always easy to watch.

The deal-breaker for me is the scene when she's robbed. Elliott is a total sweetheart in this scene, before she's robbed and even after, and Paula is really nasty to him, even after he risks his life for her (the only thing that saves him is that the thieves find him funny). Then he returns, attempting to offer sympathy, but she tells him he's just like all the others.

It's the biggest scene in the movie that I think should have been better written (along with the one where she FINALLY apologizes nicely but Elliott sleeps through it, agh). Paula should have at least shown appreciation for Elliott's actions, in my opinion.

But hey, it's just opinion. But as food for thought, maybe it's not as simple as me being a jerk or a prick (I guess it's better than being branded as a bitch). And yeah, I loved a lot of Ebert's writing, which I didn't always agree with, but which I felt was definitely presented with poignance and deep feeling.

But no -- I just don't agree with you. Thanks for the convo though. Cheers and Happy New Year!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not.