I'm guessing people who like scoreless games and participation trophies probably didn't really like the tone of the movie, and that people who think there can only be one winner were annoyed he threw the game so everyone could play. My view on it though is that it still taught them how to lose.
I kinda also notice that people who are big on competition didn't really play sports when they were kids anyway, so in my opinion they don't really have a pedestal to stand on. I was never into sports but I did try soccer when I was about 7. Hated it. We lost every game but 1. So I would argue I experienced what it's like to lose, but I don't really feel like I gained any life lessons from it. Just that I didn't wanna play anymore.
It certainly includes a message about adults competing against each other through their kids. We see this primarily through the Vic Morrow character, but it cuts through the entire story.
I think the theme you mention about teaching kids to lose is absolutely huge, and what makes this such an excellent movie today. Kids today are very sheltered from failure as the culture has adopted instant praise and participation trophies as its norm. This, in turn, arose out of an emphasis placed on self-esteem above all else, a movement that dates back to at least the '60s, but mainstreamed in the '80s through today, where it is almost pathological in parenting. Elevating children's feelings above teaching values has resulted in parents who don't want to discipline their children because they are unwilling to make them "feel bad", and scoreboards are not even used in little league games lest the losing team have their feelings hurt.
Of course, learning to deal with failure is one of the greatest skills a child can learn in life. The sooner they learn this better. All modern parenting completely undermines this notion, however, and it results in children who have inflated egos, poor discipline and high senses of entitlement, all of which can lead to great problems in adulthood.
One of the scenes that beautifully teaches this idea comes when Buttermaker consoles Ahmed, who, after idolizing Hank Aaron as well as his own brothers, ditches his uniform and climbs a tree, completely humiliated at his own poor performance on the ball field. Buttermaker reminds him of all the errors Aaron committed while playing in the minor leagues, illustrating to Ahmed that Aaron's success was not automatic and came from a lot of hard work and - most importantly - failure. So rare to see these type of messages in kids movies today, where more often than not, kids are portrayed as possessing wisdom that adults lack, completely inverting the adult-child hierarchy.
I guess I did learn from it that sports aren't really what I succeed at. There's other stuff I'm probably more passionate about and more willing to fail at in an effort to become better.
One issue I had was that when my coach discovered I wasn't very aggressive, rather than do anything about it he just put 2 of us on this white line in front of the goalie and never really worked with anybody to help them improve. At least, I don't remember any of that happening. Guess it may have come had we been older and I played more than one season, but I didn't know that at the time! Seems like something Buttermaker would have addressed though.
It's a little frustrating, and not just in sports, how no one wants anyone else to discipline their kids. You get pestered at the mall by a 5 year old, or someone's hitting your kid and their parents aren't around, you yell at them to stop and somehow you're being an ass while their negligence is OK.
I remember for the first several years of my life when I'd be in a restaurant that when I'd finish, the straw would still be picking up water from the ice so it made that really annoying slurping sound. I did that for years, and I remember sitting there with at a table with my brother. Our parents both worked at this restaurant, and on Saturdays she worked days and he worked evenings, so he'd take us up there for lunch while she finished and punched out. There was a waitress there this one day whose boyfriend was there too and we talked to the 2 of them for a while and the guy seemed pretty cool. So when I finished my drink I do the slurp thing like I've done for years, my brother asks me to stop but I don't. Suddenly the guy calls me out by name, since he'd obviously just learned it, or heard us talking probably, and says the same thing. It was because an outsider complained that I finally learned it was annoying and I should stop, and I never did it again!
When adults claim that something is "all about the kids," it usually isn't; just about anything that kids used to do for fun has been spoiled by greedy, needy, self-serving adults.
A good companion piece to this film is director Michael Ritchie's film from the previous year, Smile, an equally cynical look at the world of small-town teen beauty pageants.
I hate when kids get used in politics too. A few years ago my city voted to change the school district borderlines to acquire 7 schools from another district that are in our city limits. It was an effort to revitalize that part of town, and they'd get tax money from all the homes and businesses over there. However, it seems like our own school district has already gone downhill and it seemed to me like a situation of spreading it even thinner. Guess that's kinda beside the point, but anyway, the campaign signs said "Vote Yes" and then right underneath it in lowercase "for our kids". I see it as a guilt trip and an intimidation tactic.
I remember my aunt and uncle getting pissed at somebody in their small town who didn't wanna pay school tax and I think they voted for a tax increase or something. I can't remember if these people moved or if my aunt and uncle were thinking about moving over it, but the whole thing just sounded stupid. These are the same aunt and uncle whose first son played like every sport and then the second one played some but not as many, leaving the youngest one to in my opinion to feel he had to out of obligation. He seemed the least into it of anyone.
Reminds me of Dazed and Confused when Randall 'Pink' Floyd doesn't wanna play football. Sorta fitting that Linklater was the one who did the remake of Bad News Bears since that movie's lighting makes me think a lot of this film and it takes place in '76. Just wish I'd been able to be a bigger fan of that version.
As a former Little League coach I can attest that Little League is the biggest example of hypocrisy I've ever stumbled across. When I was being interviewed as a prospective coach, I was told that winning isn't important and that the kids having fun is. What I found hypocritical is that when I first started playing LL 12 years before I became a coach, 1 team won the league championship. 12 years later and that same team won the title every single year. Throw in the fact that they have a LL World Series every year seems like winning is pretty damned important.
There is nothing wrong with winning, in fact that's the point of the contest, isn't it?
Desire to win has many positive aspects. It drives the coaches to help every kid on the roster become a better player, to teach them the rules and strategies and to improve their own skills as coaches, managers and mentors.
Problems occur when admirable goals like sportsmanship and teamwork are sacrificed at the expense of winning. And there's the constant aspect of the adults enjoying victory vicariously, at which point the kids start to become pieces on a game board.
I played in LL for years and my own kids play competitive softball now. There are leagues that are run well and those are run for the benefit of a few connected families and some that apparently benefit nobody. I had great coaches who honestly changed my life, and terrible ones that made me want to quit the game forever. But every bit of it, positive and negative, was an invaluable learning experience, one that I made sure my own children will also have. I honestly believe American society has suffered in the past 30 years due to decreased participation in team sports and a reduced emphasis on actual competition.
That's why Bad News Bears is quite probably my favorite movie of all time. It hits every one of those notes, from the desire to win forcing effort, the value of teamwork and the negative aspects of competition and kids sports.
Finally, my signature:
"You didn't come into this life just to sit around on a dugout bench, did ya?"
I think there were a couple of turning points in the movie when Buttermaker admits he's been an AH like getting drunk and decides they need to practice and they don't want to. They have been a laughing stock and all want to quit. Buttermaker calls them a bunch of babies and get out on that field. He's really angry and has an attitude adjustment. Later after they've made it to the last game of the playoffs, Joey doesn't care anymore and drops the ball at his controlling father's feet there is another turning point where Buttermaker doesn't want to compete anymore especially against Roy Turner he wants his kids to just play ball. I think the moral is do the best you can but winning isn't everything.
I think the saddest thing about the Bad News Bears is that Tatum and her father had a bet over whose movie would be a bigger blockbuster. Bad News Bears or Barry Lyndon...it was Bad News Bears. What a train wreck of a father, Ryan O'Neal.
Worse yet, Tatum is an Oscar winner and Ryan isn't. When Tatum won her Oscar it's said that Ryan slapped her. Ryan O'Neill is a complete douchebag. What Farrah Fawcett saw in him I'll never know.
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I remember watching Showbiz Tonight around the time of her death and hearing the host keep saying something about their son Red reaching out to her from his jail cell and thinking what a white trash saga it sounded like, and how embarrassed she'd be to hear them discussed that way. I literally pictured a guy in prison sticking his arm through the bars going "Mommy".
There were a lot of lessons, but I do think that playing your heart out and doing your best is the most important thing. You can hold your head high even after a tough loss. Also, never waste a good burrito. But whether or not somebody played sports growing up isn't really the issue. Competition is important not just in sports, but in life. I played little league and what I see these days with the wiping out all competition to protect kids from hurt feelings I find completely sickening. A generation of wusses is what we're raising these days.
I just hope the people who have the attitude that sports is all that matters got something from the movie too. That maybe they realize we can't all be good at it.
The takeaway from competition of any kind ought to be effort is far more rewarding than victory. From your previous posts, I don't think you understood that as a kid and I don't think you get that now.
Quitting something because you aren't good at it is a bad idea. Quitting because you aren't enjoying it is something else, assuming the reason you aren't enjoying it isn't because you aren't good at it. Nobody is good at something the first time they do it. Success requires effort, no matter the environment.
We all like to do the things we already do well. It's way more fun than trying to improve those things we don't do well because that's difficult, humbling and frustrating. But being willing to put forward the effort to improve weaknesses is the path to excellence in any endeavor.
That's why organized sports can be such an important teaching tool for kids. The feedback is relatively immediate and the lessons learned can be applied for a lifetime. Giving up because you don't succeed right away is a recipe for a lifetime of failure.
"You didn't come into this life just to sit around on a dugout bench, did ya?"
I'd rather fail at theatre than athletics. Unfortunately I never had the courage to try it. Definitely something I'll have to reconsider I guess. Trying to open up more about the idea of studying literature, music, or film. No matter how impractical it seems to everybody!
Seems that sports though are more widely accepted as the thing to be good at. When someone is flaunted for being good in some other field, the discipline doesn't seem to be specified, the person is usually painted with the broad brush of "studious, scholarly, studious, artist teacher, education". No one attempts to fully define what greatness is. Maybe that's strictly because it really is only subjective.
Personally I think sports win because there are no opinions involved (short of the aforementioned bickering parents) but rather a set of rules and a relatively reasonable amount of time in which to complete the task, whereas with ideas (broad brush, I apologize!), the more words that start flowing it's more likely to hurt feelings or be perceived as flawed thinking. I'd prefer to attempt to get good at writing than jumping or running around. Just seems like such an unpopular viewpoint. Maybe that's what turns us into more "quiet" types, because we're choosing to just keep our mouth shut! The problem though is it builds up and you start to lose a sense of self because you're so busy hiding it and therefore defining it becomes the goal. Sounds too simplistic and only staying in one place despite saying a lot (of words), when the original intent was for thought to be limitless.
Now that's not to say I wouldn't be proud of someone who succeeded at basketball - Jordan is bigger than the sport, baseball - love to watch Randy Johnson hit that bird!, or football - NFL Films is badass.
I've probably said too much. Feels weird though because I generally never put this stuff into words and not sure what sparked it tonight.
No message. It's only a movie, and an excellent movie as well. Kids having fun, kids being kids....too bad that the folks who raised my generation (most of those folks were quite stuffy) couldn't have let us have this kind of freedom. I can only imagine what today's kids must be going through. What must they do in order to spend even five minutes outside? Go with a bodyguard or something? Text Mommy and Daddy every two minutes to say that they are okay?
I think all of us who grew up after the 70s are going to watch 8mm home movies of kids from the 50s one day and be extremely jealous of their childhood.
Kids in the fifties faced a lot of restrictions, as did kids of my generation. Sometimes I think that kids really had freedom only in the fifties and sixties. today's kids sound like they have to report to Mommy and Daddy every two minutes.
I just mean the beauty in those videos. Now nobody does much of anything and there's nothing to film!
My question really should be how do you interpret the ending. It sorta plays on all the different viewpoints of the importance of sports rather than saying winning is everything or that everyone's a winner.
That's when the team sucked. I'm talking in the final game when they were good enough to be in the championship game and Buttermaker decides to give everyone a chance to play and have fun rather than worry about the scoreboard. The kids don't seem to resent him for that decision so I'm wondering if it's that they feel overmatched, don't care anymore, or if they hate the Yankees so much that they won't feel like losers by losing a baseball game to them. I've noticed that people who like to use expressions like "it's just a game" or "it's only a game" are the same ones who turn around and act like winning/losing one defines them, and are even more likely to be the ones who suggest you play in the first place. Ugh, how 'bout a little consistency!
"So I would argue I experienced what it's like to lose, but I don't really feel like I gained any life lessons from it."
Why are you going on about something, by your own admission, if you never learned anything about it?
Buttermaker wasn't teaching them to lose by throwing the championship game. They'd already had that experience is my point. He wanted to win. So did (most) of the kids, at least two players say as much when he starts substituting.
Buttermaker did what he did because he realized he'd emphasized his personal goal of beating the Yankees and their coach ahead of things like sportsmanship, team play and even the physical safety of the kids and that he'd made a mistake by doing so. He wanted to win, but no longer at the expense of integrity. So he pulls Amanda and her sore arm off the mound, he gives Rudy positive reinforcement when he gets thrown out at second (even though it really was a dumb move) and he makes sure every kid on the roster gets a chance to play in the championship game.
That final contest sums up everything that is right and wrong about kids sports. Just look at Buttermaker before and after his epiphany and you'll see the best and worst of adult behavior toward the kids in their charge.
It doesn't have to be athletics, you know. Adults do the same thing with any competition between kids. Chess matches, SAT scores, student elections, homecoming queens, spelling bees, talent shows, etc. Competition is a constant way of life no matter who you are, but as they say, it isn't if you win or lose, it is how you play the game. Old saw, but the bottom line for this movie, and it was beautifully said.
"You didn't come into this life just to sit around on a dugout bench, did ya?"
Never learned anything about it? I was saying that despite what they say about sports being full of lessons, the only thing I ever learned was resentment. I still feel it when I hear parents get pissed at each other over the way a stupid game went down. They do that crap in churches too. Someone eventually ends up pissing people off and then one way or another the group (formerly a team) is dissolved.