MovieChat Forums > I, Claudius (1977) Discussion > The best ever?

The best ever?

posted 13 years ago by lvrepoman
23 replies | jump to latest

I'll freely admit to enjoying television, and while there has been an abundance of dreck over the years, there has been plenty of top quality stuff as well.

I first caught "I, Claudius," when PBS re-aired it about 1991, purchased the VHS tapes shortly afterward, then went on to read Graves "I, Claudius," and "Claudius the God." For some reason, I set all of this aside until pulling it out recently and watching it with my wife. It is impossible not to be struck by the brilliance of this production. More than ever, it proved that a great story, great dialog and great acting beat the hell out of FX, CGI, and all the bells and whistles. For my money, it is the best thing I have ever seen on television.

Agree? Disagree? Have a different candidate you would like to put forward? I'd like to know the opinion of others.

"He was running around like a rooster in a barnyard full of ducks."--Pat Novak

[–] contradad-1 13 years ago

Agreed. I, Claudius is absolutely the best thing that has ever been on television.

[–] BoomerMovieFan 13 years ago

I agree. It's the best. The only other, comparable series for me were Brideshead Revisited and Upstairs, Downstairs. One thing they all had in common, they were all domestic sagas --- better known as "soap operas".

But in I, Claudius's case, it was like a soap opera on steroids. That's why I think it is preferred among the three by male viewers.

[–] contradad-1 13 years ago

Beyond a doubt the best show ever.

[–] spqrclaudius 13 years ago

Agreed.

[–] deRider84 13 years ago

No way is it the best ever. Certainly greatly enjoyable and very well written, but I simply can't ignore the staginess of it all, the poor washed-out visuals, or its religious adherence to claustrophobia-inducing cheap indoor sets. If they only filmed outside just a few times, just for a little air, it might have made a world of difference....

I also didn't like the portrayal of Augustus at all. After watching HBO's Rome, I simply can't think of him as a jovial buffoon he was in this show. It was all wrong. I much preferred Rome's representation of him as a calm and thoughtful, yet aloof and ruthless leader. I loved Livia and Caligula though. Wish there was more of the latter's depravity.

Overall, I guess I liked it about as much as Rome. It has a very good script, but evocative visuals and pleasing cinematography are more important for this kind of period production than many people here like to admit. This is where I, Claudius simply can't compete with some other shows.

As for the best TV show ever. I guess that goes to either The Simpsons or The Wire, with Deadwood and Breaking Bad close behind.

Ratings: http://www.imdb.com/user/ur3539572/ratings

[–] angmc43 13 years ago

Now THAT'S a matter of opinion...

I never see this show as cheap-looking. The sets are big, they have a good number of people in the same scene, etc. I have no problem with the cinematography either. The camerawork is not nail-on-the-floor, being pretty fluid (the camera movements when Augustus interrogates his daughter's lovers, the spin on Messalina's decapitation as if it's her point-of-view). I also particularly like how the scenes changes from past-to-present ("Waiting in the Wings" and "Queen of Heaven" for example). I never had a problem with the lack of exterior visuals. And when they staged an outside scene (Germanicus' funeral procession, the city streets), I think it was done rather well.

I don't see Brian Blessed's Augustus as a jovial buffoon. A jovial buffoon would not be able to put on a front (saying goodbye to Agrippa or trying to play nice with Tiberius "Don't sulk!"), execute his daughter's lovers or threaten his surviving grandson with a dagger at his throat. The way I see it, I, CLAUDIUS' Augustus appears to be a formerly cutthroat politician trying to put on the facade of a happy patriarch of one noble, happy family. However, when that image is threatened, the old Octavian in him seeps out and watch out!

Overall, I guess I liked it about as much as Rome. It has a very good script, but evocative visuals and pleasing cinematography are more important for this kind of period production than many people here like to admit.

Or could it possibly be that many people actually feel that acting-script-direction are a more important factor than production values? You appear to be in the reverse (or at least feel that production is the winning vote in your criteria). Please understand not everyone shares your view.

[–] deRider84 13 years ago

I'm not saying that production values are more important than a good script. Just that the two go hand in hand and would complement each other. I would like to see the forum and the outdoors once in a while. I'd like the sets to feel more organic. I'd like more atmosphere. I also wouldn't mind some 'real' violence, as the ridiculously fake stabbings in I, Claudius often made me laugh rather than disturbed me.

This is why I would welcome an HBO remake (is that still happening?). As long as they stick closely to the books and resist the temptation to soap it up too much, it could be something really special.

Ratings: http://www.imdb.com/user/ur3539572/ratings

[–] angmc43 13 years ago

I'm not saying that production values are more important than a good script.

Your comments do infer it that way. As I said before, I don't find the production at all cheap. You think differently.

I also wouldn't mind some 'real' violence, as the ridiculously fake stabbings in I, Claudius often made me laugh rather than disturbed me.

Actually, I found those stabbings well done, not at all ridiculous (Sejanus, Caligula, oh and especially sister Dru and daughter Dru). We are in two different viewpoints, and it appears this particular discussion is going nowhere.

This is why I would welcome an HBO remake (is that still happening?). As long as they stick closely to the books and resist the temptation to soap it up too much, it could be something really special.

And that's how I felt about I, CLAUDIUS. Sorry if you don't feel that way.

[–] Kawada_Kira 10 years ago

I loved Livia and Caligula though. Wish there was more of the latter's depravity.

I disagree, I thought there was just enough of that. Too much more and it would have become repetitive and tiresome. At a certain point, we basically get the picture. I thought the Caligula part of the show went for just the right amount of time. It was great, but too much of a good thing can end up becoming bad.

I simply can't ignore the staginess of it all, the poor washed-out visuals, or its religious adherence to claustrophobia-inducing cheap indoor sets. If they only filmed outside just a few times, just for a little air, it might have made a world of difference....

I really love the show, but I actually kind of agree with this criticism. I did think all the indoor sets were a bit claustrophobic at times, and a few more outdoor scenes would have been nice just for a little more visual variety and a change of pace.

On the other hand, though, the claustrophobic confinement to the halls of power probably does help to convey to the viewer the kind of tension and unease of life in the imperial family. We see life in Rome through the eyes of Claudius, who's trying to stay alive while watching everybody he knows drop around him as casualties of the never-ending power struggles he's doing his best to avoid. These politics alone are suffocating, and confining the viewer to the palaces probably helps to facilitate that tense feeling. I felt like it did for me.

The people, and the people alone, are the motive force in the making of history.
-Mao Zedong

[–] nephihaha 13 years ago

I like it. It's intelligent and well written... but with two drawbacks... the acting can be a bit hammy, and it's incredibly stagebound...

---
It's not "sci-fi", it's SF!

[–] angmc43 13 years ago

Well, if a silent film must be a silent, if a foreign film must be foreign, if a pre-1970s black and white film must be black and white, why can't a vintage BBC Serial like I,C be acknowledged as a vintage BBC Serial?
Nephihaha, you made a similar comment before. "We're talking about television here, not a stage play." Well, I'm afraid that Herbert Wise, and all the other technicians, directors, and creators of the BBC Serials from the early times of television to at least the mid-1980s might disagree with "Of course these televisions shows are like stage plays!" The British Serials of that era, UPSTAIRS DOWNSTAIRS, ELIZABETH R, etc. were all taped and filmed like they were theatrical productions. One creator referred to these serials as "Electronic theater." There is a pretty large majority agreeing to this fact. I find it interesting that the more favorable critics of such shows acknowledge this filmmaking fact, while the less-favorable reviews totally ignore or deny this fact and make criticism (Boo! It's like it's on stage! Boo!) that would make any creator of that era say "So, what's your point?"
So you might as well acknowledge I,C as a traditional Brtish TV Serial (which were taped like theatrical productions), instead of refusing that such a thing exists.

[–] nephihaha 13 years ago

Actually if you watch certain other British TV of the 1970s, there's quite a bit of outdoor action.

---
It's not "sci-fi", it's SF!

[–] angmc43 13 years ago

Yes, the examples I mentioned had outdoor scenes, though the main action happened in videotape studio (With exceptions like Jeremy Brett's THE THREE MUSKETEERS, THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS and COUNT DRACULA where main action happened outdoors according to the material). But that doesn't change the fact that the British TV serials of the 60s, 70s, and early 80s were television plays (so too were the PLAYHOUSE 90, STUDIO ONE, HALLMARK productions of early American television). I, C stands as one of the few completely studio-bound productions, which makes it fit more to the TV-play medium of the time, instead of some illegtimate offspring existing in a vacuum.

[–] pbglynn 10 years ago

I agree that I, Claudius remains the finest thing I've ever seen on television. The dialog, story, and characters provide the action and make it great. As a woman, I loved the women's clothing. Livia, Livilla, and Agrippina all had some beautiful clothes.

Pol dark and the Peter Wimsey series from the seventies opened the classic serials to the open air, and The Pallisers, to a lesser extent. But while they were good, I'd still rather watch Claudius, Elizabeth R, or The Six Wives of Henry the Eighth.

I'll get back to you after I've consulted with Satan.

[–] Venus-25 11 years ago

I agree. What the hell is wrong with "Electronic Theatre" anyway?

There are still people in this world who feel that theatre in inherently superior to film, which is inherently superior to television. Each has its merits and nothing is lost by cross-pollination where it's possible.

The Fabio Principle: Puffy shirts look best on men who look even better without them.

[–] jxh13 13 years ago

Yes, I agree. I tend to rate I, Claudius and Band of Brothers as about equal, but Claudius came first and generally gets the nod. Episode 7 of BoB is among the most affecting hours of television I've ever seen.

[–] nutsberryfarm 11 years ago

it's full of wit.

I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard!

[–] camusimagination 11 years ago

I agree that it is the best "mini-series" of all time. Hands down in my opinion. I don't know where I would rank it with all television shows, but it would most likely be in the top 5 if not top 3.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[–] Kawada_Kira 10 years ago

I don't know if it's the best TV show ever, but I think it may be the best Rome-themed show i've ever seen. I like it abundantly more than I liked the HBO "Rome" series. Which I did like, but I just didn't think the acting was always very good, and i'm sorry but I just couldn't suspend my disbelief enough to swallow that those two characters somehow managed to be at the center of every single event of any significance across Rome's empire (as well as other things like somehow managing to be the only two survivors of a shipwreck, or to get away with all the crap they pulled like letting Pompey escape when they, implausibly to begin with, had him as their prisoner; Caesar was known to be lenient but he still had his limits). At least in Claudius's case, he was a member of the imperial family and ended up becoming emperor, so he had good reason to be around for most events of importance in Rome or to hear about them from those around him; the real Claudius certainly would have. In the HBO series I didn't think the acting was that great and I found several of the characters boring. But in "I, Claudius", the politics are very fleshed-out and the power struggles are gripping, the acting was flawless and all the characters were excellent, especially certain ones like Livia who was a truly scary villain. Probably the only thing i'd give the HBO series a higher rating on than "I, Claudius" was that, as I said to another person on this thread, "I, Claudius" was a bit claustrophobic in that there were hardly any outdoor scenes in the whole series. By contrast, the HBO series had a lot more visual variety.

I don't think "I, Claudius" is the best TV series ever, but it's certainly one of the best and I love it.

The people, and the people alone, are the motive force in the making of history.
-Mao Zedong