I would not change a darn thing about it from start to finish. The screenplay, cinematography, the acting, plot.. the pacing is incredible. In addition, the ending blew me away.
Perhaps the greatest American film ever made.
Don't forget the greatest film score in cinema.
shareNo question about it. The score is haunting..
shareIt's definitely a haunting piece of work but the other key attribute is the preciseness of all the cues.
The fact that this score has as much atmosphere in 23 minutes as other great scores have that are 2 or 3 times that length makes it unique and unbeatable.
Perhaps the greatest American film ever made.
Hi there!
It's all about what a film means to the individual. I never had a problem at all with Nicholson and Dunaway being formal like that. After all, they did have a business first relationship. And you see... I absolutely LOVE Chinatown's ending! The first and only time the film actually takes place in Chinatown. You see the night lights, the haunting score.. Nicholson shows up and sees that his associates have already been arrested which sets the stage for the rest. This film is a perfect 10! ;)
It's all about what a film means to the individual.
After all, they did have a business first relationship
absolutely LOVE Chinatown's ending!
The thing is you didn't even understand the film. You're pretending that you understand the film when you don't.
First of all, Mulwray was the wife of an important figure in the city and he has to address her with respect.
Jake Gittes isn't a hero under any circumstances. He is merely the protagonist of the film and "all his work", in your words, was the reason a major character is dead at the end of the film and he admits it with his last words of the film. He doesn't take a single constructive action in the entire film.
No doubt that the shot near the end of the film is unlikely but it's no more unlikely than placing a bloody horse's head under a blanket in a bed where a man is sleeping and not spilling any blood on the floor, any other part of the bed, or any other part of the room while not awaking the man.
Gittes has been completely "irrelevant" pertaining to the crime against the city and his continuous mistakes dooms innocent people.
If you're interested in watching heroic detectives you can watch The Maltese Falcon or The Big Sleep.
No, I do understand the film. It's pretty simple to "get".
First of all, Mulwray was the wife of an important figure in the city and he has to address her with respect.
Jake Gittes isn't a hero under any circumstances. He is merely the protagonist of the film
"all his work", in your words, was the reason a major character is dead at the end of the film and he admits it with his last words of the film.
The formality may be part of the era or the form. I haven't revisited too many classics of film noir or detective fiction lately, but I believe that Sam Spade never addresses Miss O'Shaughnessy – a bit of a mouthful – by her first name throughout The Maltese Falcon. Even her cohorts call her that.
Besides, I think the device has a rather poignant significance in Chinatown. The first time she calls Jake by his first name comes just as he phones the cops to come and get her; and then he calls her Evelyn right at the end. So it's as if they've finally achieved a level of intimacy with each other, but it's too late.
Ok. That's what I was looking for, and a better explanation. Thanks.
shareNo, you do not understand the film.
You haven't given any example of the dialogue you're referring to to even back up the foolish and infantile claims. When or if you do they will quickly be refuted.
What you have to understand is that your opinion of how good the film is the opinion of one person out of millions and billions. You cowardly can't even demonstrate how films since Chinatown compare with Chinatown.
If you do not like non-uplifting films, next time try not to watch great films like Chinatown. I think your feeling uncomfortable about Chinatown is a very great compliment to Chinatown.
My opinions of the film also reflects my own opinion but my opinion just happens to be shared by many great filmmakers (as well as critics and film fans)
Again, everything you are saying supports my claim that this was a great movie for the 70s but it is outdated and would not appeal to most audiences of the 90s and beyond in terms of where fans like you say it is "perfect and the greatest screenplay of all time".
I'm sure for your generation it was special and because of that you would think that it is so great, but it's somewhat outdated now and is hard for younger audiences to like it "as much". This is not to say that it isn't "good", or it does not have a great screenplay, or that it is not well made, but since the 70s, dozens of great crime classics have come out, and they have more modernized technical aspects that are less boring and more entertaining.
As far as your arguments which are predicated on "bandwagon", that's a weak argument, obviously that's like saying everyone else is doing it so it must be good/right, which is faulty reasoning.
It's a good movie, and was probably great for the 70s, but it is not as perfect and great as people make it out to be, compared with many great films that have come out since then.
And for the ending, it doesn't need to be uplifting; I already mentioned I loved the end of Seven, which is gruesome and dark as can be practically for a crime drama. It was the other flaws too, which are similarly along the lines of it being outdated. It's just not as good as many make it out to be, even if it was groundbreaking for its' time.
Again, everything your saying continues to reinforces my arguments.
The people that write your favorite films of today or some of the "crime classics" studied Chinatown and then made good films.
It is a good movie in your opinion, maybe great for the 70s in your opinion, and not as perfect or great in your opinion, while great filmmakers many critics and many film fans think it's one of the greatest films in cinema history and much better than almost all of the films that have come out since.
Again, David Fincher, who knows more about filmmaking than you, me or Roger Ebert, was the one who said "Chinatown is one of the five perfect films ever made. I mean it’s perfect."
Again, it's just not as good as many make it out to be in your own opinion, which you can't even back up.
Everybody has an opinion and it just so happens that the majority of people who watch films have an entirely different opinion that you do. I don't think that's very complicated.
If it's outdated, why does it have the greatest screenplay in the history of American cinema and a better screenplay any crime drama that you've ever watched?
If it's flawed, then that means every one of your favorite crime dramas that are very flawed films.
It's okay you love the film, and it does have a great screenplay, but to say that it is the greatest screenplay in the history of American cinema is purely opinion. Not only would that be impossible to prove since there is no empirical way of measuring what is the greatest screenplay in history, it is solely your personal opinion. IMO, the screenplay is indeed incredibly good, but to say it's the greatest in history of cinema I couldn't agree with that. In fact, I couldn't say any one particular film is the greatest screenplay in history because there is no way of measuring the variables.
If it's flawed, then that means every one of your favorite crime dramas that are very flawed films.
It's not my opinion my friend. A substantial amount of screenwriters believe Chinatown is the greatest screenplay ever written in the history of American cinema and there's not much that can be done about that.
Like I said, if the film has flaws then every film you've seen has flaws. Additionally, your opinion about where the film ranks is most people will disregard. It persistently ranks among the very greatest films of all time so I don't know what to tell you.
I can vouch for this as well. I first saw Chinatown as a kid and while I didn't fully understand the story, it fascinated me. Then I took a screenwriting course in college and one of the main focus points was in fact Chinatown's screenplay. It made me rewatch the film and I realized how many things I missed the first time around. As for the ending.. It was pure noir in my opinion. When evil and corruption become a juggernaut.. the way Chinatown is told, I cannot imagine a different ending. "As little as possible.." followed up with "Forget it Jake it's Chinatown"
shareYeah, I would say that ending is more of the spirit of film noir, given that all classic film noir endings conversely conclude with the villain or malevolence always being brought to justice.
But "As little as possible" is just a brilliant, poignant line and easily the most important words Jake Gtttes utters in the film.
I respect that "many" screenwriters believe that, but that doesn't mean they "all" do, obviously. I did admit that the screenplay was excellent and the technical aspects were practically flawless. However, those are just a few aspects of the "entirety" of the movie.
This is one of those older, 70s films, that was a big hit and popular in its time for the 70s, but it doesn't have the same impact anymore to new viewers from a younger generation (of course, there will be some, a few, I'm not saying all people who didn't grow up in the 70s won't think it's as great as people say).
If you grew up in the 70s, then I can see where you would think it was one of the greatest or the greatest screenplay, etc., but if you grew up in the 90s or beyond, there is no way that a majority of people would make such a claim. It's boring compared to crime thrillers of the past three decades (except for a few scenes).
If there is one movie I compare this to it's LA Confidential. Chinatown is probably a little better, but I prefer LA Confidential because it is more modern looking on screen.
In addition, Nicholson was good in Chinatown "most of the time", but I picked up on at least a handful of scenes where he sort of let his guard down and didn't hold up the same standard, and that's a flaw, too. I actually didn't really like him in this and thought someone different would have been better cast in it.
Not every filmmaker thinks The Godfather is the greatest film of all time either.
I could care less of what younger viewers think about the film. That has nothing to do with the reputation of the film. If you want to be a screenwriter of filmmaker, Chinatown is essentially a must and has a plethora to offer to learn about filmmaking.
You're the one who brought up Se7en and David Fincher calls Chinatown "one of the five perfect films ever made. I mean it’s perfect".
L.A. Confidential is a worthless film compared to Chinatown and younger audiences probably like it more because it is little more than a fun movie. As a result, it hardly places anywhere among the best films of all time except for sites like imdb and is relegated to cult fandom.
Good response. I actually agree with you with much of this.
Except I don't think LA Confidential is nearly as bad as you portray it as. It has similar style, dialogue, writing, cinematography, story, and scenes as Chinatown. Many critics have similarly praised LA Confidential, and I remember the year it came out, it was one of the most popular films of that year and had critical acclaim. Similarly, the ending is a bit of a let down, although the technicalities were good, like Chinatown.
I actually am not a big fan of LA Confidential at all (like this, I gave it a 7/10), but it "reminds" me of Chinatown in more ways than most movies would. It's a good film, like Chinatown, but I wouldn't say it's one of the best movies of all time or anything, although I'm sure some people may think so and some critics liked it a lot.
It's interesting that Fincher says that, and I can see where as a screenwriter or filmmaker, it would be a great study, a must study, to learn what quality screenplay is. You see Fincher is someone who was growing up in the 70s so this was right down his alley and he would match my suspicions that this was a big hit for the 70s. If he was working his way up in Hollywood in the 70s then it would make perfect sense that this was one of the movies he studied and thought highly of due to the time period.
I never disagreed that the film wasn't greatly written or technically almost perfect, (kind of reminds me of LA Confidential again), but due to the ending, the boredom (I fell asleep twice trying to complete this and I NEVER do that the first time I watch a movie; even the Babadook had me hooked and riveted where I couldn't fall asleep, another movie I watched recently), and just some ridiculous things here and there, like Gittis saying Mrs. Mulwray every single sentence or every other line most of the time, and vice versa, not to mention the incest thing did not impress me as anything special at all and I suspect that might be a shocking part that makes some people think this movie is so different and real because it delves into such unspoken of evil and realities, I actually didn't like the movie at all COMPARED with many other great crime dramas of the past three decades (90s-present), and I actually prefer Fincher's movies over this one.
Nicholson let his guard down? The man played a gumshoe detective to a T. There is not a scene where he was not JJ Gittes in this picture. Please let me know what scene you are speaking of since there is not one.. I repeat not one scene in this film that is wasted/filler. Nicholson slowly gets frustrated with the entire situation as well as himself for not being able to piece the case together sooner. He IS Gittes in this film..
shareLA Confidential is not a bad film, it's just that it's simply relegated to close to nothing compared to Chinatown. Other than Jeannine Oppewall and Dante Spinotti, there is nothing favorable in that film to compare with Chinatown.
I don't care much about the opinion of most critics because they know much less about filmmaking than actual filmmakers.
The ending is part of the writing so I have no idea what you're talking about.
Your writing is also imbecile-like, writing that its greatly written but Gittes addressing Evelyn Mulwray as Mrs. Mulwray is ridiculous.
If you didn't like the film, that's great. Great films shouldn't be desperate for audience's comfort.
Well, Chinatown is a 1970s movie about 1930s Los Angeles and L A Confidential is a 1990s movie about 1953 Los Angeles; the latter is necessarily more modern. It's more recent in release and also its subject matter.
Do we want 1930s LA to look modern? I don't. I generally don't like updated Shakespearean movies, and I liked the recent Gatsby movie in spite of the modern music, not because of it.
I think lots of people (mostly males) get way too caught up in special effects and subtle technical aspects which aren't really germane to moving the story along.
I really don't understand people's disdain for things that are "dated." Does everything have to be shiny and new?
I respect your opinion, but am confused about why you think Chinatown is dated? The score, costumes, locations all looked perfect to me. Was it how it was filmed? I see many films that just don't stand up over time, but this is a period piece, so it should stand up for all time, no?
A couple other things you mentioned:
1) You didn't like how Mulray and Gittes addressed each other. How else were they supposed to address each other? They had a formal relationship until later. But really, who cares? Strange that that would annoy you.
2) You mentioned that Nicholson's performance was lacking in certain places. I didn't notice, but I'm sure it's possible. Frankly, I thought Nicholson goes hand in hand in that role and couldn't imagine anyone else playing Jake Gittes.
3) You didn't like the ending, so be it. I prefer non-Hollywood endings there they don't wrap everything up in a cutesy little bow, but that is preference and I respect other people who didn't like the tone of the ending. To me it makes absolutely perfect sense though. Once again Jake couldn't protect someone in Chinatown and ended up hurting her indirectly.
4) The lucky shot? Again, who cares? You have to give movies a bit of leeway at times, but not too much.
I think you get the movie as it's pretty obvious what there is to get. But you are missing the little things that make it so good:
1) Mulray: "Are you alone?" Gittes: "Aren't we all?" Great thought provoking line
2) That scratching noise at the door when Gittes opens it to find the workmen changing the name on the door. There's a million ways to do that scene, but I really like it here.
3) The hall of records scene with the weasel and the sneeze. Excellent and once again the hallmark of a fine director who knows how to add color to a film.
4) The banter between Cross and Gittes. Great stuff and I especially liked that Cross always called him Gitts. It's not necessary for a director to put that in a movie, but it certainly adds.
5) The slapping scene. Absolute perfection and extremely real looking. Dunaway was fabulous.
6) The you make love like a Chinaman scene. Not the most hilarious of all time, but funny and well done.
I can go on and on about how great this film is. Deeply flawed, I can't abide that. I just don't see it at all.
By the way, I quite like LA Confidential, but it is nowhere near as good as Chinatown in my opinion. No subtlety or nuance at all, just a sledgehammer which is fine, but I prefer films which make me think, often well after I've seen it.
Agreed.. from the opening credits it provides just the right amount of atmosphere without being overwhelming. Pure haunting noir! I remember when Dunaway saved Jack from Polanski and his goon, who were crossing the street. She swings in with the car, almost runs them over and Gittes climbs in.. Then, que the tensed up theme music on the way to her house.. Just fantastic.
I listen to the soundtrack regularly..
Only a complete adhd addled moron wouldn't like this movie. I agree 100%, it's perfect.
shareThere is one thing I change about the film every time I watch it...
I turn the color down on my TV so I can watch it in black & white.
Other than that, it's my favorite movie of all time.
Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown.
It is pretty damn near perfect. I didn't appreciate it as much the first time I saw it when I was much younger, but having just re-watched it, I have to agree. If there was one flaw it was the final scene...not what happened, but that the filming seemed rushed and Jack's reaction to stop the shooting was IMO unrealistically slow. The edit's weren't as smooth as the rest of the film...just technical criticism, but the plot and unfolding of the mysteries were perfect like going down the rabbit hole. Polansky gets overlooked often as one of the best directors. Chinatown, Ninth gate, Ghost writer, The pianist are among my favorites.
shareI think that it was rushed because of the characters more than being forced.
Gittes is rightfully under arrest and Cross naturally looks for his daughter/granddaughter, and spots her because they arrive at about the time she and Evelyn are about to leave. The last person she wants her sister/daughter to see, as well as the person she detests the most, happens to be there talking to the girl so she obviously wants to get away in a hurry at this point.
This wouldn't have been a possibility if it weren't for Gittes.
It's arguable that Gittes' reaction to stop the shooting took into account that he was interfering with the police, of whom he had just previously said to Evelyn regarding the situation "Let the police handle this"."
But I will say that the cops, Escobar and Loach, probably should have had their guns drawn right after Evelyn took out hers.
I don't mean just what all happened..though it was definitely a fast resolution. Just that the editing/camerawork felt choppy compared to the rest of the film. I don't think Gittes cared to not interfere. He had already duped them, once he found out She was innocent. I'm not sure it's realistic they would start shooting on a busy city street at a woman/daughter and not just chase her. It's not like she was out to kill anyone else (even if the police thought she was guilty). Might have been more realistic to have a car chase and her die in a crash, but then Polansky had to have her shot through the eye to keep the whole theme of "everything is not what you think you see" (she also had the black dot imperfection in her eye...the broken bifocals etc). I still think it's one of the best movies ever though.
I watched the extras and there was quite a bitter disagreement between Towne and Polanski on how to end the film. Towne wanted Cross to die, but Polanski insisted it happened as it did.
The probability of her getting shot from that distance is certainly unlikely but it was still pretty justifiable.
A wanted murder suspect just shot at an elderly man who happens to be one of the most respected people in the city, so it does seem reasonable that they would open fire. But Escobar aimed lower, presumably at the tires so I don't really understand why Gittes has to react a particular way (for the audience). It was his partner who aimed higher and managed to shoot and kill her. I do doubt they he expected it to kill her.
It should also be pointed out that Gittes' earlier duping of the cops turns out to be another mistake since they place him under arrest and rightly don't at all care what he as to say at this point.
Also, the cops don't know the girl's relation to her and likely believe she was just the young woman that was pictured with Hollis Mulwray in the newspapers that suggested were having an affair. So to them, it's not a situation of shooting at a "woman/daughter".
Above all, the ending represents a relatively spontaneous event that was the culmination of the protagonist's various mistakes, and should feel different from the rest of the film. The camera is consistently at eye-level, basically simulating someone actually present alongside the characters.
Yes, there were various disagreements regarding the film. Polanski overruled Towne's terrible ending and Evans rejected the terrible original score and dismissed Polanski's concerns that there wasn't enough time to replace that score with a new score.
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Regarding the style of the final scene, I would agree that it's in contrast with the rest of the film, but given the chaotic and frantic nature of the conclusion, it seems appropriate that there should be a rupture. One thing that's great about the last couple of minutes is that it's done in one handheld shot -- which may go unnoticed since there's a lot going on -- up to the hidden edit to another take for the crane shot.
share[deleted]
That doesn't apply to Chinatown's score in any way, however, since it doesn't resemble those film scores whatsoever.
For instance, the score to Chinatown is the opposite of the score to the The Big Sleep. I find it amusing that some people talk about the similarities between the two films but don't point that out. Make no mistake, the two scores are total opposites and if anybody thinks they can debate this point they better be able to go through the scores for each film, cue-by-cue.
While I think it's fair to suggest that it's a compliment to Roman Polanski and Robert Towne that their work is compared favorably to the original films noir, its truly a compliment to any 1940s or 1950s film noir score to be compared with Chinatown.
That's why I always say that the score to Chinatown is the greatest aspect of the film because while some may accuse other impressive parts of the film to be a pastiche, you literally could never confuse any classic film noir score with Chinatown.
To each his own, but I don't find it necessary to pigeonhole Chinatown as either a film noir or a murder mystery, though it is often analyzed as a neo-noir and a revisioning of the detective film. While Chinatown certainly contains strong elements of those genres, it is also a love story (it has been mentioned alongside Casablanca, in oblique terms), a family melodrama, a political film, a conspiracy thriller, even a historical drama, since it was partly inspired by real-life events—and, above all, a (Greek) tragedy. Personally I find Chinatown more affecting than just about any noir—or any other kind of film—I can think of. Another emotionally resonant work it can be compared with is Vertigo—a detective becomes involved with a woman who isn't what she seems, with his obsessiveness finally causing her demise—although Hitchcock's film doesn't really feel like a noir either, at least in my book.
shareI'm glad someone else brought up Vertigo because it has the only score that can possibly rival Chinatown as a storyteller, albeit they're done in two very different ways.
Vertigo is profusely and lusciously passionate, romantic, and hypnotic while Chinatown is sparsely intellectual, dynamic, and dramatically poignant.