MovieChat Forums > Rhoda (1974) Discussion > When Rhoda met Sally

When Rhoda met Sally

posted 12 years ago by pvd295
16 replies | jump to latest

I just watched the episode from Season 3, when they introduced the character of Sally Gallagher. This may be when the show officially 'jumped the shark'.

The character was horrible, not likable or believable at all. To try and pass Anne Meara (well into her 40s by that time) as a sexy 39 year old stewardess that men hit on all the time was ridiculous. The whole set-up of how they met (roomies at a single's weekend) was even more far-fetched (though you could see they were trying to go for the same set-up as when Rhoda and Mary met - both thinking the apartment was 'theirs'...same thing with the hotel room). The whole situation fell flat, as does the horrible character they came up with.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] gbennett5 12 years ago

I've been saying this forever, but you seemed to always argue the show
didn't work with Rhoda married, and her being divorced improved the series,
so that Rhoda could be a single woman again. Change of heart perhaps?

"You impress me as a man who could use a new suit of clothes or a new
lover affair, but he doesn't know which." - Barbara Stanwyck, Clash By Night.

[–] mikwalen 12 years ago

I disliked Sally. I also disliked Gary, Benny, Johnny, Nick....basically any character introduced after the "Joe" period. It didn't seem like "Rhoda" anymore.

[–] gbennett5 12 years ago

Agree. The show was terrible with those characters. The writing was
far sharper when Joe was around, so I don't get the writers' arguments
that Rhoda worked better as a women who was single. And the casting
of the otherwise talented Meara as a young, sexy stewardess was
embarrassing.

"You impress me as a man who could use a new suit of clothes or a new love
affair, but he doesn't know which." - Barbara Stanwyck, Clash By Night.

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

I've been saying this forever, but you seemed to always argue the show
didn't work with Rhoda married, and her being divorced improved the series,
so that Rhoda could be a single woman again. Change of heart perhaps?

Read the post again. My criticism is of the addition of the character "Sally" played by Meara. Not of Rhoda being divorced.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] gbennett5 11 years ago

So...other than Meara's addition, you still feel Rhoda divorced was an
improvement to the show?

"You impress me as a man who could use a new suit of clothes or a new love
affair, but he doesn't know which." - Barbara Stanwyck, Clash By Night.

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

Yes, I do. The focus was back on her life - not 'her and Joe's life'.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] gbennett5 11 years ago

HOW was it an "improvement" when virtually EVERY script (and every lousy
character) was less sharp, less smart, and less funny than the "Joe"
years??? You yourself just (finally) admitted that the "Sally" character
was a joke. How do you defend those other moronic chacarcters played
by Ron Silver, etc.????

"You impress me as a man who could use a new suit of clothes or a new love
affair, but he doesn't know which." - Barbara Stanwyck, Clash By Night.

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

I thought the character of Gary - played by the brilliant actor Ron Silver - was a great addition to the cast - and much needed. He had perfect comic timing, and played the part of a wannabe-NYC- Playboy just right. (He was a much better comic actor than David Groh, and his character 'Gary' was much more interesting than 'Joe'). The problem with 'Gary' was that he was totally underused and completely wasted in the series for two full seasons. Luckily for Silver, he moved on to mush greener pastures and became a respected Hollywood and Broadway actor.

(In one episode, we are introduced to his employee 'Tina', who completely steals the show. They had enough sense to bring her back in Season 5, as Rhoda's new co-worker at the costume company - but the show ended shortly after that ep. Another talent and charming character that was wasted.)

It's too bad he was so ignored - I wanted to see him with Brenda (and as Rhoda's brother-in-law) over the totally one-note "Benny".

Instead, in Season 3, they tried to shove "Sally" down our throats probably because Meara was a bigger 'name' in 1976 (I believe Sliver made his big debut on 'Rhoda'). Problem was Meara played 'Sally' so negatively that she was totally unlikable.

THAT is the problem I had with the show - as I have said repeatedly. Not that Rhoda was divorced.

.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] gbennett5 11 years ago

While I agree that "Gary" is a cool name (:)), I couldn't stand Ron Silver.
But that's only a drop in the bucket. Whether Silver was effective or
not does not change the fact that the first two seasons of "Rhoda" were
far sharper and much more in tune with "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" than
the last two were. Virtually all of the first two years were a gem.

I can see how you felt about "Joe" (I thought he was a bit short-tempered),
but the writing was just too strong during Groh's years on the show.

The only improvement in the last year was the blossoming of Brenda, who
shed and the weight and became quite pretty.

Speaking of Brenda, I would've preferred that her cousin Lenny (the guy
with foot fetish) continued on, gradually winning her heart. He was
a sweet character (the great Eileen Heckert portrayed his mother in
one episode). I thought his foot obsession was very, very
funny.

On balance, you didn't like Groh, and I didn't care one way or the other.
But, like it or not, the show was much better written during his time
on the show. And don't forget in the third year, we have NO Ida!

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

I thought Gary was sexy..especially as the seasons went on and he got rid of the 'playboy' image with the blue tinted sunglasses.

Ida missing in season 3 was very notable. Proved what a great actress she was in the role, and she was a top-notch co-star.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] SimplemindedSociety 11 years ago

'Yes, I do. The focus was back on her life - not 'her and Joe's life'.'
---------------------
yes, but what the focus on the show being good/funny, regardless of whose life it's about? I Love Lucy was also about the married couple's life

'I couldn't stand Ron Silver'
--------------------
I have to agree--and the show made it seem like Rhoda was merely being tolerant of him,which can work as a gag,but it didn't on this specific show.

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

The difference with ILL was that every storyline revolved around her, not Ethel, Ricky or Fred. She was the nucleus of every show. Not true with 'Rhoda' in the first two seasons.

In an interview back in 1996, Harper said one of the reasons they got rid of 'Joe' was because the writers felt all the stories were being written for 'Brenda' since she was now the single woman surviving in NYC. Harper said she told the writers/producers she didn't care who the stories were written for since the show was a hit, but they answered, 'if we want to write stories about Brenda, we would have a show called 'Brenda''.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] SimplemindedSociety 11 years ago

'The difference with ILL was that every storyline revolved around her, not Ethel, Ricky or Fred. She was the nucleus of every show. Not true with 'Rhoda' in the first two seasons'.
---------------------
But the problem is that not every eps. focused on Rhoda in seasons 3/4. All they did was replace that focus on Joe onto Brenda(or whoever)

Didn't Ricky(or Ethel)have almost equal time with Lucy in many episodes? What sitccm star doesn't have players around them to react to,and doesn't that make the focus on all of those concerned within that storyline?
I'm not getting why you see RHODA as some exception.

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

Read my posts again (and what VH said in her interview in 1996). It has nothing to do with stars having players around them to react to - it's the storyline itself - in which the star of the show takes a back-seat to the supporting player in the story. As Harper was told - if they wanted to keep writing stories for yhe supporting character 'Brenda', they would have named the show 'Brenda'.

Again, I don't believe there were many stories in which Ricky, Fred or Ethel had a story written for them and Lucy took a step back and just 'reacted'. If anything, the story was about how Lucy could turn one of their situations into her own mishap - since the show was about her.

Not true with 'Rhoda'.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] gbennett5 11 years ago

The point that you keep missing, though, is that "Rhoda" is a much BETTER
show in its first two years. I thought Joe was a hothead and, as you
pointed out, didn't have much comedy, but who cares?? HE was the straight
man to Rhoda, Ida and Brenda. I understand WHY they wanted to get rid
of Joe, but I'd wager it was because they were running out of ideas for
them as a couple and went into desperation mode to write an extended
separation, followed by a divorce. It totally killed the show. For me,
and many other fans, it was just too depressing that Rhoda would lose
Joe after that classic and touching wedding and waiting so long to get
a man. Sure, divorce is realisic, but it was depressing on a sitcom.

As for Harper, she ALSO said in '96 (on Sally Jesee Raphael) that she
was AGAINST writing joe out, but the writers/producers won out (as always).

I have no problem if you personally enjoy the last two years of the
show more than the first, but come on - you have to admit that's a personal
thing and not a true belief that the show improved when Joe left and
those other stupid characters came on board! Anne Meara was totally
wasted (how great she could've been if she had been given a believable
role). And Nancy Walker is sorely missed in season three.

"Can I buy you a drink?"
"No thanks. Save your money - hard times are coming."
Robert Ryan, Barbara Stanwyck, Clash By Night.

[–] SimplemindedSociety 11 years ago

'Again, I don't believe there were many stories in which Ricky, Fred or Ethel had a story written for them'
---------------------
I understand the difference between storylines and focus you described.
But re: the above, what about the Hollywood eps(and others)where the storyline was about Ricky, or the Mertzes' anniversary,birthday,etc. I guess it comes down to how one defines 'many".
I guess I don't care as much about who the storyline is about, but rather how and what happens