MovieChat Forums > Rhoda (1974) Discussion > Linda Lavin and Valerie Harper ('Rhoda's...

Linda Lavin and Valerie Harper ('Rhoda's Shower')

posted 12 years ago by pvd295
29 replies | jump to latest

A little trivia...

Many of us remember the early episode of 'Rhoda' in October, 1974 when her high school nemesis came to her bridal shower. The wealthy, snobby woman was played by actress Linda Lavin, who played the part to perfection.

CBS and the producers were so happy with Lavin's performance (and audience reaction) that they had a serious consideration to bring Lavin back later on, in a recurring role on the series. (This meant Lavin would probably have had to leave her recurring role on ABC's 'Barney Miller' to join 'Rhoda'.)

Things didn't work out so smmothly for Lavin (years later, reports would say Harper felt threatened that Lavin would have stolen the show from her - with Lavin's character getting all the laughs and vetoed the idea), and Lavin's chaacter was nixed. Actress Barbara Sharma, who also 'attended' the shower as Myrna Morgenstein, landed the spot in the recurring role, which lasted two seasons.

CBS never forgot Lavin's zany performance and likability with the TV audience, and brought her back to the network in 1976 where she starred in her own hit sitcom 'Alice', based on the movie 'Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore'.

Twenty-five years later, Harper and Lavin would cross pasths once again. Lavin was replaced by Harper in the Broadway comedy 'Tales of the Allergist's Wife' in late 2001.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] SimplemindedSociety 12 years ago

I thought it was always Lavin worrying about her co-stars stealing the show from her. Lavin was funnier on this RHODA epsidode then she ever was in ALICE.
Sharma should have had her own sitcom; funny woman.

[–] pvd295 12 years ago

Yes - it turned out that Lavin didn't get along with her costar Polly Holiday on the series 'Alice', because she thought her character 'Flo' was getting more attention than her own character 'Alice', which is why the producers/CBS decided to spin 'Flo' off into her own series (even though she was clearly a second-banana, and NOT a star character who could hold her own show). "Flo" lasted just a few months in the Spring of 1980.

Diane Ladd, the original 'Flo' in the movie, joined the cast for a year as 'Belle'. Ladd claimed that there was a lot of negativity on the set between Lavin and the rest of the cast - including Ladd - and couldn't stay 'under those conditions'. She left after one season, though Lavin would later say she left because she didn't like the grind of doing television and went back to movies. Lavin insisted she got along fine with everyone.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] SimplemindedSociety 12 years ago

'Diane Ladd, the original 'Flo' in the movie, joined the cast for a year as 'Belle'. Ladd claimed that there was a lot of negativity on the set between Lavin and the rest of the cast - including Ladd'
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Between the rest of the cast, or Ladd?

[–] pvd295 12 years ago

From what I recall reading in the interview (which I believe was shortly after Ladd won her GG for 'Belle' in early 1982), Ladd was openly hostile and critical to everyone in the cast. (Actress Polly Holiday had also said something very similar when she left to do 'Flo'. I don't think Beth Howland ever commented.)

Ladd joined the series during the 'sweeps' period in February, 1980 when Polly Holiday's "Flo" spun-off (and lasted about two months before being cancelled). Ladd stayed with the show for the rest of the season, but was dropped before the following season (1981-82), even though she had been nominated for a Golden Globe (and won!) for her brief role on 'Alice'. She believed her GG nomination just added fuel to the animosity between her and Lavin.

Ladd explained Lavin wanted her off the series, or else Lavin wouldn't return. CBS had offered her a series of her own, but she declined - knowing how poorly 'Flo' was conceived and treated by the network.

I also recall another interview - I think it was BEFORE she joined the cast - that she was in negotiations with CBS to play 'Alice' in the TV sitcom as early as 1975, but somehow the project stalled...and was picked up a year later when Lavin was announced as the star.

I think there was bad blood between the two of them for a long while.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] SimplemindedSociety 12 years ago

'Ladd was openly hostile and critical to everyone in the cast'
'Ladd explained Lavin wanted her off the series, or else Lavin wouldn't return'
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Ladd was? I thougth it was Lavin who was allegedly unfreindly towards Ladd. Are you saying Ladd's hostility was the reason why Lavin wanted her off the show and not jealousy as everyone thinks,or that Ladd became hostile and critical as a reaction to Lavin's resentment?

Also, I found it strange that Ladd even joined the cast,since she was probably offered the role when the series premiered,but likely did not accept what would be considered a step-down from feature films(Ellen Burstyn was also likely offered the series) Maybe Ladd's feature-film career not taking off after the film version was the reason.

I read that Sheree North was the original choice to play Alice in the series and I could see her doing it.

[–] pvd295 12 years ago

I'm sorry - I should have said Lavin not Ladd in the first statement. Lavin was the one who was very hostile and critical, not Ladd. (Sorry...names are similar!)

Ladd has said CBS went to her first back in 1975 to play the part of 'Alice', but the project never took off for some reason, until a year later when Lavin was offered the part.

I wonder - and this is just a hunch - if CBS delayed it for a year because they had put a lot of money and effort into the other MTM spin-off "Phyllis", which debuted that September, 1975. I wonder if they thought both shows starring single widowed women would 'cancel' each other out, so to speak...confusing the public and neither one finding an audience? By the mid-70s, CBS had quite a few women-oriented shows on their shcedule: "Mary Tyler Moore", "Maude", "Rhoda", "Phyllis", even the "Cher" variety hour...then came "Alice".

Sheree North was an underrated, talented actress if ever there was one. She would have been great as 'Alice', or better yet - maybe she could have saved 'Phyllis'.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] SimplemindedSociety 12 years ago

I'm sorry - I should have said Lavin not Ladd in the first statement. Lavin was the one who was very hostile and critical, not Ladd. (Sorry...names are similar!)

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'no wonder for my confusion'

'Ladd has said CBS went to her first back in 1975 to play the part of 'Alice''
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Ladd to play the part of Alice instead of Flo?

[–] pvd295 12 years ago

Yes...they wanted her to play the lead in the series. If I remember the interview correctly, I believe she said someone at CBS was impressed with her comedic performance in the 1974 movie, and wanted to build a sitcom for her to star in on the network (again, they were having luck with this niche they found in these women-oriented shows). They then suggested a sitcom based on the movie, and for her to play the lead...and then the project and Ladd were 'dropped'.

The project came around again in 1976, with Lavin as the star (again, the execs wanted her on the network since her 'scene stealing' episode in RHODA).

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] pvd295 12 years ago

The ep just aired again Tuesday night. One of the funniest episodes of the show (followed by the wedding, which is hysterical). I'm saving "The Shower" and 'Rhoda's Wedding' to my DVR so I can enjoy them since I didn't buy the DVDs yet.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] brendanchenowith 11 years ago

I also loved The Shower and The Wedding and am also keeping them on my DVR. Lavin was priceless as Linda Monroe, and is a terrific actress, but I've heard a lot about her inability to get along with just about anyone.

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked.

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

Other people I know personally who work on B'way have told me she was so kind to them and nice - easy to get along with. Then again, the people I know were behind the stage (make-up, sets, etc) and not on it with her. So that could make a big difference.

My favorite exchange on 'the shower' was when the women wanted to know how rich she was!

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] brendanchenowith 11 years ago

I liked that one, too, but I also loved "SHOW ME THE PICTURE!", then she turns the picture upside down! SO COLD!

If Rhoda was "MTM's-first-episode-get-outta-my-apartment-Rhoda", she would have physically yanked her out of there.

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked.

[–] millerdsplaydzign 11 years ago

Re: Lavin / Harper,

I had always heard the opposite, that the issue was not so much V Harper being threatened by Lavin, but that Harper was turned off Lavin behaving in a manner that she became known for on the set of "Alice".

Speculating as to the rest of the story, Harper came from the MTM Show where the cast and crew got along famously well; maybe she didn't want a viper in the henhouse for her own show.

So....no positive chemistry off camera, no future role.

I always have thought that Linda Lavin is funny, especially in the "Rhoda" episode. But I also have always had the impression that she was essentially playing herself in that part, like if you accidentally crossed either her path or blocked her key light, that she'd eat your balls for breakfast just because she can.

[–] sjbradford 11 years ago

Lavin is a very good character actress - she was good in this episode, and she was terrific as the grandmother on "The O.C.". As the lead in Alice, I thought she was a bit dull.

I also thought it was weird that despite her terrific performance on "The O.C.", her character was never seen again after her second appearance.

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

Good observation! I think her talent is in being in a supporting role or ensemble cast, not carrying a show on her own as the star. Same can be said on B'way - when she was in the musical GYPSY (1990) as the star driving the show ('Mama Rose') she flopped. When she was in the comedy 'Allergist's Wife' (2000) billed with two strong co-stars (Michelle Lee and Tony Roberts), she was fine.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand