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RHODA vs.THE JEFFERSONS - could Rhoda last 11 seasons, too?

posted 11 years ago by pvd295
10 replies | jump to latest

I noticed something interesting, which has not been brought up before...

About four months after the spin-off "Rhoda" premiered on CBS (September 9, 1974) another highly anticipated spin-off from CBS debuted - "The Jeffersons" (January 18, 1975).

Like "Rhoda", we were quickly introduced to the main characters (George and Louise), as well as the 8 regulars in the supporting cast who would make occasional appearances: Lionel Jefferson, Mother Jefferson, Florence the maid, Tom Willis, Helen Willis, Jennie Willis, Mr. Bentley, and Ralph the Doorman.

The show lasted 11 seasons, with barely a ripple to it's original cast or premise. The Jeffersons continued to own their chain of dry cleaners, they lived in the same deluxe apartment, they had the same neighbors, and they had the same theme opening for 11 seasons!

There was a death of a character (Mother Jefferson, in season 3 I believe), and it was explained that she had passed away as did the actress. There was a change in actor for Lionel (Mike Evans was replaced by Damon Evans, who was replaced by Mike Evans in the last few seasons) with no explanation. "Florence" left briefly for her own show ("Checking In"; 1981) but quickly rejoined the show when hers was cancelled, and it was explained she didn't like working at her new position, so she quit. "Mr. Bentley" left in early 1983-1984 for another CBS sitcom which failed ("Mama Malone") and came back for the final season (1984-85), his absence explained that he went back to London for a year on a job-related issue.

Despite these minor disruptions, the show soldiered on, never losing focus of what made them a hit in the first place...with a loyal following for 11 years!

RHODA, as we all know, had multiple cast changes (with no explanations - except Joe was divorced from Rhoda, and Martin and Ida went cross-country in 1976). In the space of five years, she changed jobs, friends, neighbors, apartments, theme songs, marital status, physical appearance...you name it - she changed it.

Do you think if there weren't so many constant critical changes on RHODA, she could have stayed on for 11 seasons as well? If they had a supporting cast which they stuck with from Day 1, do you think it would have made a difference?

[–] amyghost 11 years ago

I think that's a very legitimate possibility. Constant changes in cast and format can often be a signal that a production is troubled, and I suspect it can sometimes turn off viewers who figure it's not worth sticking with a show that might not be around for long.

Certainly Rhoda deserved, ideally, to have lasted just as long as The Jeffersons. IMHO, it was basically at its best a much better show; I used to watch The Jeffersons from time to time, but found it mostly fairly mediocre and repetitive...Rhoda generally was definitely overall higher quality of the two.

[–] horizonbeach 11 years ago

I don't think "Rhoda" could have lasted as long as the Jeffersons, regardless of who was in the cast, and here's why:

1.)The writers had already decided after two seasons that married Rhoda was boring. The next couple of seasons after that were funny and entertaining largely because they showed a newly single Rhoda trying to navigate her way around the dating world again. Single Rhoda and Single Brenda was a great concept that a lot of women could relate to, because they tended to be self-deprecating and "real", unlike so many TV characters of the time. However, after a couple of dozen episodes, this too began to get a little stale, hence Brenda settling down and getting engaged to Benny. I just don't think the "single girl in Manhattan" thing could have worked for Rhoda much longer. At first, single is normal and funny and interesting. After 4-5 years or more of it, especially in a time like the 1970s and early 1980s where the expectation was still largely that someone was supposed to find their perfect mate and settle down, it might have gotten more pathetic and sad to TV audiences. Mary Richards could always seem to pull off the "I'm single and I'm fine" thing a lot better than Rhoda, who always seemed to send the message that "I'm single, but I'm still looking".

2.)I feel that a lot of the momentum that caused "The Jeffersons" to carry on for so long came from the fact that it was one of the still few shows on TV about black people and their issues. Until the early '70s, black actors on network TV were few and far between. Once shows like "The Jeffersons", "Good Times", and "Sanford and Son" hit the airwaves, I think one could argue that they may have lasted well past their primes simply because they were the only shows designed specifically for black people. "The Jeffersons" did get dry and repetitive, as did "Sanford and Son", IMHO, but they catered to a black audience so the ratings stayed higher than they probably would have if they had had the same premises but been cast with white people for a white audience. And to be fair, if I was a black person who had lived through Jim Crow and the Civil Rights Movement, I would probably have watched those shows faithfully too, if only to express thanks that there was finally something on TV that I could somewhat relate to. "Rhoda" didn't have that to fall back on.

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

Interesting responses, horizonbeach. If you don't mind, I'd like to comment on few points you made...

Married/Single: Yes, with Rhoda the writers married her off quickly. Maybe they should have kept her married (although their excuse was they didn't know 'how to write for a married woman' since they were used to writing for single women stars - "Mary" and even "Phyllis") and be an active step-mom to Donny? "The Jeffersons" survived as a married couple - as did "The Willises" - in their 11 year run; neither couple separated nor divorced despite neither marriage being perfect. With 'Rhoda', not only did she divorce, but her parents separated, after being married for 40 years, in the start of Season 5. Consistency was not their strong suit.

Jeffersons/Audience: I honestly don't know if TJ had a large black audience which kept them going. I had always read that they had a large white audience - the same viewers who tuned into AITF and "Maude" - because they enjoyed Norman Lear's writing. "Rhoda" could have also played upon her being Jewish (and maybe developed a bigger Jewish audience?) - but once she got her own show, the writers decidedly kept this out of the scripts.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] SimplemindedSociety 11 years ago

With The Jeffersons, I stopped seeing their color after the first couple of seasons, and became interested in them for who they were. Even though it could be mediocre, there were enough gems to keep it afloat, with interaction between more characters.

With RHODA, I don't think they had enough characters,with the exception of Brenda,for Harper to work off,and it made Harper seemed like she was going solo. Rhoda may not have been right for a lead character,and despite Harper's talent, she could be heavy handed. I felt a claustophobic feeling to the show,even though they lived in the middle of NYC. Rhoda needed to get out and do something,but not Jack Doyle's costume shop.
Irnonically, two of my most memorable/funniest shows was when MTM and Linda Lavin guest-starred

Consider the aspect of videotape vs, film:
There is a distancing factor in film, where tape is more intimate with a spark,and makes you feel more like part of the action. Notice also how the audiences of taped shows are usually louder in their reactions. RHODA either needed a larger studio audience or the laughter bumped up. There can be a subliminal effect when you hear audience laughter,even if it's not deserved; ONE DAy at a TIME being an example. That show also lasted about 10 years,but was no funnier than RHODA. They could write for Bonnie Franklin, but not for Harper?

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

The problem I had with THE JEFFERSONS was - overtime - some of the main characters became caricatures, not characters. Most notable of this was LOUISE. Compare 'Louise' in 1983-85 to what the character was like when the show first premiered..or even back when she was on AITF. By the 1980s, she became more of a clown on the show, and not the strong, smart woman we were first introduced to in the beginning. Same with Helen Willis - she became a buffoon over the years who hammed it up for the cameras (contorting her face into so many gestures) and not the sophisticated, no-nonsense woman she first presented herself as back in 1975.

Yet, the show trudged on because (IMO) they really didn't change much - they kept it simple and the same for the audience (and kudos to the cast who stayed on for eleven years, unlike other shows where cast members leave - like AITF).

RHODA went through too many changes too quickly. I think the audience lost interest in her somewhere along the way (then there are fans like ourselves, who enjoyed some of the changes).

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] brendanchenowith 11 years ago

The Jeffersons seemed to stay somewhat consistent - the core 5 cast members stayed with it til the end, George and Louise had the same apartment, George was always in dry-cleaning, even the opening and closing credits stayed the same.

Rhoda, on the other hand, changed opening and closing sequences every season - the theme song's arrangements kept getting worse, she was married, divorced, changed careers, her parents took along vacation then split up. I never knew what the hell I was watching - it didn't seem like a series but more like a sketch comedy review - a HORRIBLE sketch comedy review. I think they found their scripts in Carol Burnett's dumpster.

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked.

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

I never knew what the hell I was watching - it didn't seem like a series but more like a sketch comedy review - a HORRIBLE sketch comedy review. I think they found their scripts in Carol Burnett's dumpster.

Great way of putting it - it didn't seem like an ensemble sitcom, but a sketch-comedy revue. Sometimes it hit, but often times it did not.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] happipuppi13 11 years ago

The show did well but it was
never the "runaway hit" MTM or The Bob Newhart Show was.

Season by Season Neilsen Rankings :

1974–1975 #6
1975–1976 #7
1976–1977 #32
1977–1978 #25
1978–1979 #43

Her divorce from Joe & other changes hut it from the get go. So,no way this could have made 11 years. Besides,Harper was Rhoda for 9 years,on this and The M.T.M.Show.
===============================================================================

Broadcast history :

September 1974—September 1975: Mondays 9:30 p.m.
September 1975—January 1977: Mondays 8:00 p.m.
January 1977—September 1978: Sundays 8:00 p.m.
September 1978—December 1978: Saturdays 8:00 p.m.

Television broadcasting fact. When an established show (especially a sitcom),
that's run more than 3 years gets moved to a Friday,Saturday or Sunday night time slot....it's TOAST!

Love rules & hate's for fools.
(MR.) happipuppi13 *arf,man!*

[–] SimplemindedSociety 11 years ago

'Television broadcasting fact. When an established show (especially a sitcom),
that's run more than 3 years gets moved to a Friday,Saturday or Sunday night time slot....it's TOAST! '
---------------
Do you mean they are desperate to get a failing show back on top, and why they move them to Friday,Saturday or Sunday? And #25 is not that bad. It's higher than season 3.
Maybe if it was always on Sat sandwiched between hit shows, it would have stayed on top. Would Bob Newhart Show been as successful if not sandwiched?

But, I still dont' recall this 5th season. It was no 25 until the 5th season? They didn't give the show enough of a chance by this time then

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

The show was in it's last season, so CBS moved it to Saturday nights which had become the 'graveyard' (as Harper explained many years later) since so many of their hit sitcoms had exited the year before. By 1978, Saturday night was the place where older shows went off to 'die' - since no one was staying at home any longer to watch TV. Friday nights turned out to be the same - by 1993, 'Designing Women' (once the 'belle of the ball' for CBS) ended up on Friday nights in what was inevitably their last season as well.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand