MovieChat Forums > Rhoda (1974) Discussion > Some thought on the series...

Some thought on the series...

posted 13 years ago by shannongr
20 replies | jump to latest

I vaguely remember Rhoda when it first ran, and always loved catching reruns in syndication. Now I'm getting it on Netflix and am watching it with a more reflective eye, and have some theories on how the creative team screwed it up by the end!

The show began so well - Rhoda back in her hometown, but with more confidence, and Brenda as the new "Rhoda" character. But then the writers seemed to be in such a rush with things, and didn't let the storylines naturally develop, which could have offered plenty of good plots.

For instance, they had her get engaged and then marry too soon. More dating and a longer engagement could have had lots of possibilities - fights over the wedding planning with Ma, meeting the ex-wife before the big event, etc.

Then they ran through married life - talked about kids "later" but never did anything with it, did nothing much with Joe's family. But they seemed pretty happy and supportive of each other.

Which made it all the more perplexing when - bam - they were separating! They made it so abrupt and (to me) out of the blue. Plus they changed Joe overnight- that wasn't how he was earlier.

Also the writers didn't seem to know what do with extra characters - her old high school friends came and went, Sally came and went, etc. Its like they had no game plan or were schizo!

I think they wanted to get back to Rhoda being the single gal to produce humor, but it seems to me that, with some more thought they could have sustained the comedy without so many changes that drove it downhill.

Thoughts? This may have come up before but a quick glance at this board says not in a while, if so.

[–] SimplemindedSociety 13 years ago

I agree.
Actually, I liked the show the best during the 2nd season when they were married.

[–] shannongr 13 years ago

Thanks. I enjoy the first seasons the best. I'm in the middle of the third season and it just seems kind of flat. Plus I'm also bothered by how they changed Joe from a supportive easygoing guy to a selfish jerk so quickly!

They could have kept Rhoda married and left Brenda to be the original "Rhoda-style" character. Both would have given ample storylines to explore.

[–] SimplemindedSociety 13 years ago

I know, the contant episodes about Rhoda being conflicted about Joe were a downer.

[–] Crowsley 13 years ago

CBS realized that the marriage was a mistake when the rating dropped so they had nice guy Joe become a jerk with the divorce being in the future. IMO, the show was less funny after the divorce. They changed the qualities about Rhoda that we loved when she was Mary's friend I did enjoy Rhoda's parents. They were funny throughout, Brenda too.

[–] SimplemindedSociety 13 years ago

'They changed the qualities about Rhoda that we loved when she was Mary's friend'
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But wasn't that why they had become divorced, to for her to have those qualities?

Myself, I saw no difference in persoanlity when she got married.
The ratings wwre probably fated to drop anyway

[–] Crowsley 13 years ago

It was after they divorced that her personality changed. Rather than have her maintain the same personality she had as Rhoda, Mary's friend, they did a complete overhaul of Rhoda. The character was no longer funny and endearing. Brenda and Ida got the big laughs.

[–] shannongr 13 years ago

All the more reason for them not to have married her off so soon! What was their rush??

It was less funny after the divorce, I agree. Ida was gone for a while too. Also, Brenda was still funny but less so after she started being more "attractive"/having lost weight (although I thought she was appealing the whole time).

[–] Crowsley 13 years ago

I think ratings were the big rush. CBS did constant promos for the wedding episodes. IMO, CBS and MTM made some big mistakes with Rhoda. Spin-offs were the rage but why fix something that is not broken. The MTM show had the best ensemble cast in television, then they started spinning off but none of those spin-offs really hit.

[–] cbalducc 10 years ago

According to Wikipedia, Rhoda's ratings were in the Top Ten during its second season, the one in which Rhoda and Joe were a married couple. Ratings dropped sharply in the third season, when the characters were separated. The ratings never recovered.

It seems like Valerie Harper had some bad luck with network television. First, CBS tampered with Rhoda and ruined the series. Then in the 1980s, Lorimar Productions fired her from her NBC sitcom Valerie after she went on strike for a raise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hogan_Family

[–] jayhn1111 9 years ago

That is kind of a mystery to me. Though I'm currently watching it at the end of season 3 and I thought a good portion of the first 2 seasons were one big snooze fest. Not sure I understand the appeal of seeing Joe and Rhoda as a married couple to begin with. They weren't funny together. Joe is the straight man and Rhoda just acts like an insecure child with zero self esteem who's always scared to death of losing the guy. Brenda and the mother had to carry the show and they didn't even use the mother that much. I'm just not seeing what was so special about those first two seasons. I barely got through them. I really enjoy season 3. Especially with Gary Levy I think he's hilarious.

[–] phynesse72 13 years ago

ITA.

I've been watching re-runs over the past few years and the quality of the show suffered badly after the divorce however there were some terrific episodes in season 3. Seasons 4&5 are pretty abysmal and at times depressing. Valerie had lost quite a bit of weight and looked gaunt. The show probably should have ended after 4 seasons. Bringing a great character like Ida in back in season 4 only to have her separate from Rhoda's father was a waste and did nothing to make the show any more watchable. I enjoyed watching the transformation of Brenda's character over the length of the series but found her relationship with Benny kinda ho-hum.

[–] Qanqor 12 years ago

I think this analysis nails it.

But I also think that they blew it right out of the starting gate with Joe. Joe was just a dull, unfunny character. Anyone could have foreseen that Rhoda married to him was just going to be dull. They needed to have found someone vastly more interesting, quirky, contrasting... something! Something to hang some stories on, something to hang some laughs on, something to hang some conflict on. Give him a more interesting job or something. Or some unusual religion. Anything! Look at it this way: Imagine someone starting a sitcom with Joe as the central character, Joe as he was on Rhoda. Imagine they decided to give Joe his own spin-off sitcom. Can you imagine a worse train-wreck of a show? He was just a ludicrously bland, two-dimensional, not-thought-out-at-all, someone-should-have-been-fired-over character.

[–] Tashtago 11 years ago

Agree with Shannon and Qanqor. Especially that Joe was dull. Really dull. And he looked like a combination of James Caan/Harpo Marx. She never shoulda married him!

[–] SimplemindedSociety 11 years ago

'He was just a ludicrously bland, two-dimensional, not-thought-out-at-all, someone-should-have-been-fired-over character'
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what good are these well=paid casting directors,then, who seem to think they are so important have some special perception?

[–] bowery_boy 12 years ago

I've just started re-watching the series and I find two major things wrong with it:

1 - Mary Tyler Moore and Valerie Harper had such incredible comic chemistry and that is sorely missing on Rhoda. The MTM Show didn't suffer from the departure of Harper because there was such a strong supporting ensemble cast that had incredible chemistry. Rhoda's cast and chemistry was lacking. Although Ida and Brenda were good characters they both began to wear on the nerves and the bulk of the heavy lifting was left to Harper. Rhoda was a great character but I felt she needed a foil like Mary to balance her out.

2 - Could they have moved Rhoda's storyline along any faster? All in one season she returns to NYC, meets a guy, gets engaged and is married. Also, they played down her Jewish-ness in later episodes and that was a huge part of Rhoda's appeal. I would have liked to have seen the writer's play up Rhoda more as a Mary and Brenda more as a Rhoda. And I agree, Joe was a huge dud. Cute, but a dud.

[–] rixrex 11 years ago

Rhoda was great as Mary's smartalec and smart gal pal, but I never found her interesting in her own show. With Mary, she was an important part of a bunch of great characters, but back in NYC, she was less like Rhoda and did not have that much in the way of interesting supporting characters.

When the show first came on, I cringed at the faux 1930s "Sting" style lettering and the out of place funky porno wah-wah guitar under the cutesy-pie theme song. Seemed like a really bad conglomeration, and the rest of the show ended up that way.

Well, there was only one show that had the great character driven comedy style of Mary Tyler Moore, and that one was Bob Newhart.

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The Eyes of the City are Mine! Mother Pressman / Anguish (1987)

[–] pvd295 11 years ago

Rhoda was great as Mary's smartalec and smart gal pal, but I never found her interesting in her own show.

Probably because in her own show, she became "Mary" and her sister Brenda became "Rhoda". Rhoda became the pretty, successful, smart one while Brenda became her smart-alec, self-deprecating sidekick (the one with no dates, the one with no self-confidence, the one stuck in life). While Rhoda's world was full of possibilities now (like Mary's), Brenda's world was empty - and the jokes were on her. Things got worse in S3 when they tried to make 'Sally' the new Rhoda.

"I prefer fantasy over reality TV - like Fox News" - B.Streisand

[–] butterfly5700 11 years ago

After they married, each episode was based on conflict and for me, that was a downer and not funny. Also there seemed to be a lot of focus on Rhoda's insecurities and that wasn't funny either.

Oh well, I still watch the reruns!

[–] SimplemindedSociety 11 years ago

It depends on how it's played out.
Lucy /Ricky,Ralph/Alice were funny and always at conflict. In a sitcom ,it can't be real conflict,but like a parody of conflict.

[–] gavbrown01 11 years ago

I think the OP has summed up the series quite well. The rush to marry Joe (a character I never liked) kind of obviated all manner of possible plot lines. The divorce finished the series off, I couldn't watch it after that (I saw the series when it was originally on).