Pat + Billy v Butch + Sundance - who would win?

From what I've read, it seems as if you have not viewed director Sam Peckinpah's cut of "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid." I also think that "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" is a VERY overrated Western. I enjoy it, but too many people think it's a better film than "The Wild Bunch," another Peckinpah masterpiece. You probably ignored the psychological aspect of "Pat Garrett." Also, James Coburn would kick Butch and Sundance's ass any day of the week, even without any help. Do me a favor and study Sam Peckinpah's life and view his films. Then you'll see who knows more about what it was like to live and have a huge wide range of knowledge on the Wild West.

"Man on the run from sherrif. Sherrif tracks him down and shoot him. The End. Big deal."

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but that's what really happened.

And Butch Cassidy... is not a Western. It's a smarmy, look-how-f-cking-cute-I-am piece of sh!t buddy movie.

It is apparent that you know nothing about Westerns, and therefore should not act as an authority on them, especially on the message board for one of the finest examples of the genre ever made.


I like pie.

You can use practically the same summary for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid:

Two men on the run from the law. The law tracks them and kills them. The End.

Of course, these simplistic summaries leave out all the nuance which you seemed to completely miss when you were watching Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. BC&TSK is an entertaining lark, an adventure film, a buddy movie and a sugar-coated love story. PG&BTK is a meditation on life and betrayal, a more realistic but still romanticized portrait of the west, and a twist in the heart of the average buddy movie. It's a film made up of incredible details like the guy on the raft shooting at the jug or Slim Pickens' incredibly moving death scene (one of the most beautiful shots I've seen in any film). To really feel the impact of these scenes you have to watch carefully, notice that Pickens initially asks for money and then gives it back before they set out. Notice the looks that he and Katy Jurado exchange. Notice that he's dying by the river that he planned to take the boat he was building on. Every scene in PG&BTK is loaded with nuance like that.

There's also kick ass action such as in the jailbreak scene, which is very close to the historical record of how it occured. Billy shows real regret in shooting the first deputy, and only shotts him when he is forced to. The second one he shoots with his own shotgun and takes pleasure in it, but it's a pleasure tempered by pain. Every performance in this film displays similar complexities.

As for Dylan, I agree he's no actor but he's brilliant in this film. Peckinpah knew how to use his actors to get just the nuances that he wanted.

In answer to your question as to who would take who, I have to agree with Samoan Bob and say Coburn could take 'em both with no trouble. He's a badass.

Whoops, that was jbeaudine who said that Coburn would kick both their asses not Samoan Bob, although I agree with the gist of what Samoan Bob says as well.

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while I disagree with you about the general quality of the two films, I also think that as represented in their respective worlds, Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid would figure out a way to shoot Sundance in the back while he was asleep, and then they would start drinking with Butch, who would con them both out of a horse and a gun and take off, only to get killed robbing a train, alone and friendless.