MovieChat Forums > Live and Let Die (1973) Discussion > This is not a racist movie

This is not a racist movie

posted 18 years ago by dumbwitness
117 replies | jump to latest

The Racist movie post has 90 replies, so I chose to start a new so I could make my case stand out:

This is not a racist movie, and even the book isn't racist. The only problem for some might be the language that the black people use, but if they talked with upper class English accent, it would be a joke. Ian Fleming was almost modern with his approach, with mentions of civil rights movevement and such. How come no-one's calling Shaft racist? The only difference is that the hero is black - makes sense? No.

[–] tnw013 18 years ago

I'm black and I didn't think this movie was racist. My Dad and brother loved this movie too and they're black as well (of course). There may have been a stereotype here or there, but this is prolly my favorite Bond movie (and my entire family as well. Hell, we were just happy to see black folks in the movie!

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Theo87 18 years ago

How come no-one's calling Shaft racist?

i call it racist. all blaxploitation movies are. i'm glad they almost vanished (except for tarantino's homage Jackie Brown which was a good film). ok, the titles were awesome though (Blackenstein, Blacula...).

[–] Scott-101 18 years ago

I was thinking of at some point writing a serious literary essay of the racist implications and undertones of Live and Let Die and with a board that gets such low volume of traffic and hardly anyone reading these posts, i don't feel like wasting too much time on here because i've got a busy night ahead of me, but I feel the movie is very racist and portrays negative images of black people. I don't think i could explain on it just a little but, did you notice that pretty much everyone in Harlem was working for Mr. Big and that's the same with San Monique at the beginning with everyone dancing to Baron Samedi. They portrayed everyone as very herdlike with Mr. Big (which may i add is a certain play on a stereotype of black male anatomy) and not free thinking.

Implied themes of the movie are that autonomy or mobilization of the black community is dangerous to society. The three locations of the film: New Orleans, the independent islands of Carribean, and Harlem (and for that matter inner city urban centers) were in fact three black strongholds of power, and the first places in the history of the Western hemisphere where blacks had autonomy over themselves. Bond's enemy isn't just Mr. Big but it's kind of everyone in Harlem, so in a way Harlem is the villain, San Monique is the villain, etc.

[–] avalco 18 years ago

Bond villians have always been of a wide variety of ethnicities. Howcome when black people are eventually portrayed as the villians every screams racism. If Bond never had a black villian then the franchise would also be considered racist for not including the African race. There is no way to ever possibly win because people are going to nit pick everything you attempt to do.

[–] Scott-101 18 years ago

Actually, the villains are rarely white.

And it's more than that. I'd accept a black villain, it's the way they portray every black person in the movie as villanous and stuff

[–] avalco 18 years ago

Why does there have to be a conscious balance made though? Are black peoples feelings being hurt that the villians are black. What about Quarrels son being James Bonds friend and co agent?

[–] vosges1945 18 years ago

:::every black person in the movie as villanous...:::

Quarell jr was a good guy.... opps, sorry. Pointing that out sorta ruins the argument.
Please continue with the sweeping generalized statements.

[–] cwoliver-1 18 years ago

Rosie Carver a villian? Please say it ain't so - I love this woman.

And Harold Strutter was evil and vicious?

Be honest; have you watched the movie?

[–] avalco 18 years ago

I think people like to call racism when it's not really there. It;s sad because it makes light of real problems in society that do encounter racism.

[–] Ghostbreeder 18 years ago

And you are such an expert on the authors intentions. For all you know, Ian Fleming may have been a raving bigot who wanted to portray all blacks as cupable in illegal activity. You can read anything anyway but that doensn't mean your privy to the authors intentions.

[–] old-skool101 9 years ago

Not racist....however questions maybe asked on why did they had to get a white stuntman to 'blacken' up as a black woman in the first part of the movie.

[–] rderidder 8 years ago

This question is actually answered in the extras on the DVD/BluRay-releases. At the time there were hardly any qualified black stuntmen. And, as this scene was filmed in the UK, the black stuntmen used for the action scenes, wouldn't have been available.

[–] terylene 8 years ago

So when men throw on a wig and do a stunt as a female character, which happens all the time, is that sexist? No. It's using someone who's readily available and able to perform the necessary stunt.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] gowland85 17 years ago

Actually, the villains are rarely white.

Except for Red Grant and Rosa Klebb in From Russia With Love.

And Auric Goldfinger.

And Emilio Largo in Thunderball.

And Blofeld in You Only Live Twice and OHMSS and Diamonds Are Forever.

And Scaramanga in The Man With The Golden Gun.

And Stromberg and Jaws in The Spy Who Loved Me.

And Drax in Moonraker.

And Aristotle Kristatos in For Your Eyes Only.

And Orlov and Khan from Octopussy.

And Zorin from A View To A Kill.

And Brad Whitaker and Necros in The Living Daylights.

And Sanchez in Licence To Kill.

And Colonel Ouramoz and Xenia Onatopp in Goldeneye.

And Elliot Carver and Stamper in Tomorrow Never Dies.

And Elekra King and Renard in The World Is Not Enough.

And LeChiffre and Dimitrios in Casino Royale.

The above usually surround themselves with caucasian sidekicks.

Only three films had non-caucasian main villains: Doctor No, Live and Let Die and Die Another Day, although in the latter film, the villain (ridiculously IMO) changed race and became white.

Non-white sidekicks would include Baron Samedi and Tee-Hee from LALD; Oddjob from Goldfinger; Chang from Moonraker; Mayday from A View To A Kill.

Notable non-white goodies include Jinx (DAD), Wai Lin (TND), Tiger Tanaka (YOLT), Quarrel (Dr No) and nowadays Felix Leiter (Casino Royale) originally a white character.

[–] judge_judge15 17 years ago

"Actually, the villains are rarely white."

"And it's more than that. I'd accept a black villain, it's the way they portray every black person in the movie as villanous and stuff"

hmmm

DR No - white

From Russia with love - white

Goldfinger - white

Thunderball - white

You only live twice - Oriental/Asian

OHMSS - white

Diamonds are forever - white

Live and let die - African American

Man with the golden gun - white

Spy who loved me - white

Moonraker - white

For your eyes only - white

Octopussy - white

View to a kill - white

Living Daylights - South American

Licence to kill - white

Goldeneye - white

Tomorrow never dies - white

World is not enough - white

Die another day - asian

Casino Royale - White

Now granted, not all the white villains were the same nationality but i think its pretty clear that bonds creators are not attempting to be racist by making all black people out to be evil. I understand that sometimes the henchmen are black but, with so many villains being from the eastern european block, its hard to see how anyone can claim that most of these films have predominantly black bad guys, not white.

Furtheremore i am only writing this because i am so sick and tired of people looking for racism in the most obscure places, especially in family movies, claiming that there is always underlying ignorance in the way that they are made. There is easily as much ignorance on display in any of these threads (im sure my comments included) than in the films.

In fact there are probablly as many bond films within which there are many well intentioned black characters. I mean, how many film's had colin salmon as M's number 2? 4 of them? and the ethnicity of the new felix leighter...?

[–] bitch-22 17 years ago

No, most Bond villans were white. Not all, but I'd say more than any other race.

"Rock is dead! Long live Paper and Scissors!

[–] Fernuti 17 years ago

Scott-101 "Actually, the villains are rarely white."

Are you sure?

Man with a golden gun?
Living Daylight?
Golden Eye?
Tomorrow Never Dies?
The World is not enough?
Moonraker?
The Spy who loved me?
Casino Royale?

[–] just-blaze 17 years ago

that simply isn't true. the villains are frequently white. go through the films and the main villains and that becomes obvious.

the film isn't racist. people are obsessed with racism. the villains are never going to be painted in a particulary positive light, but there is no racial reason in this case as to why they're not.

[–] Slainmonkey 16 years ago

It's not trying to say that all back people are evil is saying that Kananga / Mr. Big's men are every where. His network is quite and extensive one and that his a very powerful foe.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Scott-101 15 years ago

In a course I took called "films and society" which might cover similar ground as a sociology course or a study of race and culture, we used the term "other" to describe how a a dominant soceity uses a portrayal of people outside that dominant group to define themselves.

It's not so much racist but a distaste for that which was not culturally part of the old British empire which Flemming grew up in and witnessed declining.

-Janus in Goldeneye might have been white but they were an "other."
-Moonraker's villain was an ex-Nazi
-From Russia with Love's villains were a dominant woman (a threat to masculinity), and a chessmaster (it might be interesting to look up if chess was primarily a British pastime or an invention of another country)
-Spy Who Loved Me's villain was Stromberg, a German
-Diamonds are Forever was Blofeld who tried to fake his nobility in OHMSS and tried to fake wealth in Diamonds are Forever (very symbolic of a threat to the old nobility: a man who tries to infiltrate his was inside it)
-Carver was a William Randolph Hearst-Ted Turner hybrid, both American creations
-Thunderball was Largo an Italian
-Living Daylights had a general trying to deflect to the West under false pretenses....again, a theme of infiltration surfacing here, although I'm not sure what Flemming's version of Living Daylights was
-Goldfinger was the most blatantly racist of all....he was a German living in Britain (if i'm not mistaken) that was making his way in the British social playing golf and the like, and I remember there are also passages which spoke in a very racist manner of the Chinese

www.examiner.com/x-3877-DC-Film-Industry-Examiner

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] John-367 14 years ago

James Bond worked for MI6, the department dealing with threats from OUTSIDE the UK, (MI5 works within the UK). Therefore most of the villains were likely to be foreign.

[–] John-367 14 years ago

Scott-101 wrote: "Actually, the villains are rarely white."

On the contrary, the main villains (often more than one) are white in From Russia With Love, Goldfinger, Thunderball, You Only Live Twice, On Her Majesties Secret Service, Diamonds are Forever, The Spy Who Loved Me, Moonraker, Octopussy.....

...Look, I'm not going to type the name of nearly all the damned Bond films, the villains are mostly white.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] terylene 8 years ago

Actually, the villains are rarely white.

Are you kidding? I'm a huge Bond fan and have seen every Bond movie more times than I can count. Live and Let Die is unique for it's black villains. I've gone over the list in my head and there are only five non-white villains, aside from Kananga in Live and Let Die, that come to mind (and there are some spoilers in here:)

Dr. No, who was half-Chinese/half-German...and looked more German than Chinese.

Kamal Khan in Octopussy, who was an exiled Afghan prince and is about as far from any type of stereotype you can find. He's basically just another rich bad guy and since Louis Jordan portrayed him, it's likely if India wasn't the primary setting for Octopussy, and instead it was set in Western Europe, Jordan's character would simply have been an evil, rich white French guy.

Franz Sanchez from Licence to Kill. The Central American drug kingpin, expertly portrayed by Robert Davi. Pertinent to this thread, most of his minions/partners were...white guys. Milton Krest, Professor Joe Butcher, Ed Killifer (really just a traitor, but was bought by Sanchez) and Heller. Dario (Benicio Del Toro) is the only hispanic character among the higher-ups in Sanchez' organization.

And here's one that sort of qualifies: Gustav Graves from Die Another Day, who turned out to be a North Korean that had his genetics manipulated to BECOME A WHITE MAN (as a sort of an over-the-top disguise.) So, even one of the franchise's few non-white villains was white anyway!

Raoul Silva from Skyfall. Little is revealed of his background, but you get the sense he's hispanic, but he worked for MI6, and again, not a stereotype.

The important thing to note about all the aforementioned characters is they're defined by one thing first and foremost: Being a villain. Even Kananga himself says to Bond at one point while revealing his plan, and this is a paraphrase, "Men, Women. White, Black. It makes no difference to me."

If I was going to go through every movie, it's likely you'll find far more "non-white" Bond allies than villains. But I'm not going to do that here. There's no point because the idea that the Bond villains are rarely white is patently absurd.

[–] liscarkat (18489) 5 years ago

"Actually, the villains are rarely white."

Actually, have you ever even seen a James Bond movie?

[–] Stratego (30535) 3 years ago

'Actually, the villains are rarely white."

If with 'rarely' you mean mostly...

[–] R_Kane (15828) 3 years ago

“As villainous and stuff.” Scott, don’t EVER try to write an essay.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 3 years ago

Scott-101, you trolled so hard with this statement that you got replies over 15 years for it. This is some gold medal trolling. Good job. May people freak out for many years to come.

[–] venom222_99 18 years ago

All good arguments except about your locations. You wouldn't expect to find black people in a predominantly white neighbourhoods. They (most likely) used places with high black populations because, well they are all black. The locations ahve nothing to do with race.

"Hey you smokin Mother Nature, this is a bust!"-The Who
"The Legend will Never Die!"-Soul Calibur

[–] Interfax 18 years ago

I find it hilarious that those who cry about "racism" in situations where none exists, are almost always White do-gooders trying to make themselves feel noble!

Scott, you need to get a life bro. Seriously.

[–] Scott-101 18 years ago

I'd call combating racism as worthy something to do with your life as anything, but it's because i have a life that i won't waste too much time elaborating in detail and explain everything to you but try to be aware that racism and perceptions of black people in the media are a more complex issue than you might think. Has it ever occured to you that I might have a PhD on the subject or read more books than you about it or been very active in the civil rights movement myself? I'm guessing you're probably still in your teens, Xerexes, because your addressing me as "bro"? How much do you know about the history of race in this country or the civil rights movement to begin with? Maybe, I'm wrong, maybe you know more than I do, but at least you could give me the benefit of the doubt.

You know what, i won't even take credit for the idea of the three centers of power idea. I'm not asking you for your blessing of approval over my idea because it isn't mine. There's an essay about it I read somewhere, and he elaborates about it better than i explained above.

If you wish to ask me to elaborate, sure i can do that.

And you make a point that Quarrell Jr. was black and an ally. I'd remodify my position based on that statement, but there's another essay I read from the book "Bond and Philosophy" about how Bond dehumanizing the various villains because they're all societal outsiders, that I think fits in with Quarell Jr.

Also, I'm not saying the movie is racist. The filmmakers weren't intentionally racist, but the movie can be read that way, and there are some interesting racial undertones that you could consider.

And I think you're incredibly mistaken to say that at the very least, the settings themselves, Harlem, New York, and Carribean Islands which had newly gotten their independence from their mother countries at the time Live and Let Die was written (the novel) were not focal points of racism and/or black liberation.

[–] jeffoneonone 17 years ago

"Has it ever occured to you that I might have a PhD on the subject or read more books than you about it or been very active in the civil rights movement myself?"

Oh dear. Another academic disappears up his own *beep*

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] terylene 8 years ago

I'd call combating racism as worthy something to do with your life as anything

...and the first place you've decided to pick up that fight is with James Bond movies?

Has it ever occured to you that I might have a PhD on the subject

Let me guess...was the following your complete thesis?: "Everything is racist. The end."

The filmmakers weren't intentionally racist, but the movie can be read that way

By sad people who see racism in everything.

[–] liscarkat (18489) 5 years ago

"Has it ever occured [sic] to you that I might have a PhD [sic] on the subject"

Wow, what a pompous, idiotic thing to say. I've worked with dozens of people who have Ph.D. degrees, and I'm still waiting to be impressed. Most of the time I'm assigned to re-do projects they've fucked up beyond recognition. The fact that someone has a Ph.D. is almost always an indication of mental disorder and incompetence, ironically accompanied by egomania.

[–] Ghostbreeder 18 years ago

And its funny how people who deny there is racism when the racism is very blatant and obvious are white know-it-alls who are in denial about the societies prejudices.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] liscarkat (18489) 5 years ago

"And its funny how people who deny there is racism when the racism is very blatant and obvious are white know-it-alls who are in denial about the societies prejudices."

it's

society's

Now that I have corrected your sub-standard English, I will inform you that in the U.S.A., and Western society in general, there is actually very little racism today. People need to get a grip on personal responsibility and stop blaming others for their failures. Just grow the F up.

[–] sambuca 18 years ago

Well I did find the movie a tad racist, not just against African Americans but against Americans in general. Who can forget the "hilarious" stereotype of the hillbilly Sheriff? Fat, spitting, unintelligible talk...you name it.

-Goodnight, mother of six!
-Goodnight, father of two!

[–] richimorton 14 years ago

You are such an incredible ars hole 'scott-101' ! Travel the world , meet some people , learn ! Your judgmental attitude born from ignorance is so much more offensive to me than a fun movie . . . F.O.

That which does not Kill me makes me Stranger . . .

[–] richimorton 14 years ago

You are an offensive piece of garbage on so many levels that i think you really should just die - how dare you try to tell people your blatant ignorance you slime ? People like YOU are the problem . This is a fun movie which everyone loves - you know nothing . FO

That which does not Kill me makes me Stranger . . .

[–] Flubly58 13 years ago

Obviously not everyone loves it, that's a blatant generalization. How is that not as ignorant? You're assuming that because you like it and others you know like, it can't be bad. That's ignorance. Assuming that because you don't consciously see your worldview as racist, it must not be. He may not be right, but he wasn't an ass like you. No matter how fun and harmless this movie is, you're still a jackass.

[–] richimorton 13 years ago

I'm a citizen of the planet - i suggest you go out & see more of it .

That which does not Kill me makes me Stranger . . .

[–] dailyshampoo48 10 years ago

I was thinking of at some point writing a serious literary essay of the racist implications and undertones of Live and Let Die

I'd like to hear that; it could be interesting. you are right that there seemed to be a sort of "war between the races" esp in that harlem bit.

I couldn't really tell if it was racist, but, if we're going to rag on about stereotypes here, what about that Lousiana sheriff. LOL! I'm a cracker from the deep south and I thought he was funny as *beep*

I was a little bummed, what with blaxploitation being such a "thing" as the time, that they couldn't have had more sympathetic black characters. or at least some awesome black power *beep* I was hoping the cool lady with the 'fro wouldn't be such a stereotypical bond girl and bust out some foxy brown lines instead, but you can't have everything.

[–] terylene 8 years ago

I know this is an old thread, but I noticed it in the Live and Let Die board tonight after watching it again and just had to set the record straight.

This is one of the most inflammatory stretches of the imagination I've seen. It's people like this that stoke the flames of racial division by claiming everything is racism. Your claim of "implied themes" is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. There's nothing implied at all...only imagined by those who think that if a black person is the villain, it must be racism behind it all.

It's never once suggested that EVERYONE in Harlem is working for Mr. Big/Kananga. There is the implication that his organization is very large and very powerful. It also makes sense the New York arm of the organization would be centered in Harlem. They're hiding in plain sight. They blend into a neighborhood where nobody will notice them. Same thing for their other locales, particularly New Orleans. The claim in San Monique is that he's using Baron Samedi and the natives' belief/fear of voodoo to keep them in check and scare them off from the poppy fields. If anything, they're victims, not allies of Kananga. When Bond kills off Kananga and stops his operation once and for all, you could make the claim Bond saved all the people of the island.

If you were to point to the scene where the police follow Kananga's orders to catch Bond and Solitaire in San Monique, it's not because everyone on San Monique is in his organization. It's to show he's so powerful that he's bought off the police department. Not exactly a stretch from reality and if anything, further proves that he was oppressing the people of San Monique.

The cab driver that works for Kananga and picks up Bond in New York and later New Orleans is further evidence that not everyone in the neighborhoods work for Kananga. If they did, why not just let any cab driver pick up Bond? It would achieve the same result. No. He has to send the SAME GUY to do the SAME THING in both N.Y. and New Orleans. Or why not just send a DIFFERENT black cab driver? Only one black person in his organization is capable of driving a cab? Wow! Hardly sounds like an entire neighborhood is working for him when he can only find one guy to drive a cab in TWO DIFFERENT CITIES.

In order for what you suggested to be true, wouldn't Bond have had to take down those entire areas, instead of just Kananga's operation? His goal was to destroy the poppy fields...not blow up the entire island. At the end, when he disrupts the voodoo ceremony, if everyone in San Monique were implied to be the villains, why would they have simply let Bond walk in, "kill" Baron Samedi and waltz into the underground lair? If they were all the villain, he'd have to have fought off ALL the islanders "Matrix"-style. Instead, a white, British guy waltzes in, interrupts their ceremony, "kills" one of the voodoo priests and nobody thinks, "Hey, we have to stop him...he doesn't belong here!"

Not to mention that according to your "theory", they'd also have to lay waste to Harlem because they operate under a hive mind and all must operate under the same beliefs as Kananga. Oh, and the idea that in New Orleans he controls an entire neighborhood is utterly ridiculous. His reach is even less implied there, seemingly isolated to the Fillet of Soul restaurant. Maybe he controls that entire restaurant? How racist!

Another post mentioned what I'm about to finish with, but it's so spot on, it bears repeating: If there had never been a black Bond villain, the producers would be hearing charges of racism to no end. Then they go and make a black villain and there are fools who call them racist for that.

When you see everything as racist, you'll never be satisfied. It achieves only one thing: perpetuating that which you claim must be eliminated.

[–] Ace19444 14 years ago

Blacula was awesome! That and especially Superfly are a couple of my favorite 70's flicks

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] j_w_pepper 18 years ago

While I never found LALD the movie racist ("Quarrel, fetch my shoes!" in Dr. No felt worse), I'm just now reading LALD the novel (2006 Penguin edition) for the first time, and I must admit some of it makes me cringe.

I realize that Fleming was a product of his time, and I myself grew up (in Germany) believing that the word "Neger" (negro--not the "other" N word) was just a neutral description for those dark-skinned people, just like today many Germans, including journalists, still use the term "Farbiger" (coloured person) when actually intending to appear unbiased after "Neger" went out of fashion.

Also, let's not forget that there is the "United Negro College Fund" and the "National Association for the Advancement of Colored People", not very likely to express a racist slant through their names. Connotations are really subject to change and must be seen in their historical context (and I sometimes wonder why we allow perfectly neutral words to be turned into expletives).

So while I can generally accept "negro" as a non-demeaning term in 1953, it's its excessive use by Fleming that I find suspicious. Even if persons have been described in detail and even introduced by name, in the following sentences they are being referred to as "the negro" or "the negress" again, seemingly as opposed to "the man" and "the woman". Fleming seems to marvel at the fact that among those 250 million (his figure) "negroes" there are even scientists and other people who can think, although the evil supervillain Mr. Big's capabilities seem to be attributed to his being half-French (as a digression: Why is the offspring of a mixed-race couple automatically considered black, or a "negro"? Think Barack Obama and Halle Berry. Do we whites make them "black" because we only accept purebred whities?).

At the same time, Fleming mentions as a fact that there is a deeply-ingrained (today we would call it genetic) disposition in "the negro" (per se) to believe in supernatural things such as Voodoo, and this seems to run among "the negro races" (plural, at least) everywhere, including Jamaica and Harlem, which is why Mr. Big is able to run his network based on the Baron Samedi cult.

Furthermore, Fleming seems to be exploiting stereotypes excessively, e.g. "the negroes'" eyes showing their whites repeatedly, reminiscent of the token blacks in silent slapstick movies. "The Little Rascals", anyone?

I don't have the book at hand right now and do not feel like supporting every detail with a quote, but the main point is that Fleming's handling of the issue is leaving me with a very uneasy feeling, and for once I'm probably glad that the movie deviated so much from the book.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] serabination 18 years ago

this movies is highly steriotypical, but not racist. However i could understand if people find it racist, i mean every villian is a black guy

[–] christopher_sargeant 18 years ago

However i could understand if people find it racist, i mean every villian is a black guy

Yes, every villain in the movie (and book) Live and Let Die is Black - but then in Moonraker - they were German; in Dr. No - Chinese; in Casino Royale - French and Russian Communists. It was only in the films/novels featuring the 'multicultural' Spectre this was different...

[–] serabination 18 years ago

very true, good point

[–] highflight41 18 years ago

One thing that you can count on is that we have no way of predicting what will be acceptable 30 years hence. The best example is the Broadway play "Finian's Rainbow", in which a segregationist senator learns the error of his ways by magically being turned black. At the time (1948) it was cutting-edge anti-racism, and they had some trouble producing it in some markets because of fears it would offend southern whites. Now most high schools won't put it on because they consider it racist! Seeing "LALD" today in isolation may seem jarring, but at the time, with movies like "Shaft", "Sweet Sweetback's....", "Coffy", and "Blacula" being released it just seemed to be going along with the current genre. I maust admit I am going to be interested in seeing how "Hustle and Flow" is regarded in 2037.

[–] pelopen3bc 16 years ago

although the evil supervillain Mr. Big's capabilities seem to be attributed to his being half-French

You claimed to be reading the book, yet make something up like that?

His capabilities are attributed to the fact he is a genius; plain and simple. He got where he was in the novel by happening to speak French, and getting connections in WWII. He is black and half-French, but neither of those aspects account for his capabilities.

Of course, has anyone here considered the fact that Ian Fleming lived in Jamaica? Or that he wrote all of the Bond novels in Jamaica? According to him he had nothing but respect and admiration for their culture.

Hardly sounds like a racist.

And the fact is, Mr. Big, Bond's only black villain in the novels, is easily the smartest and most capable of the villains.

And the black henchmen/workers in the novel receive no different a treatment than the henchmen/workers in the other novels. Look at Fleming writing Germans in Moonraker. Or the Americans in Diamonds are Forever. Same treatment all around.

[–] j_w_pepper 15 years ago

although the evil supervillain Mr. Big's capabilities seem to be attributed to his being half-French

You claimed to be reading the book, yet make something up like that?

Your answer came 2 years and 3 months after my posting. I'm rather certain I didn't "make that up", but really don't feel like leafing through the book again for the quote.

[–] TMC-4 11 years ago

The original Ian Fleming Bond novels from what I gathered are very racist. I don't know if Mr. Fleming himself was truly a racist or he was simply a "product of his time" so to speak. The way that American black people were viewed upon (i.e. how they articulated themselves) was way more offensive in the book (in hindsight of course) than in the movie:
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/29780/ian-fleming-racism/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2427871/William-Boyd-I-toned-I an-Flemings-sexist-racist-sadistic-James-Bond.html

http://techland.time.com/2008/08/27/the_quantum_of_racist/

http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/40883/ian-fleming-casual-racism/

http://debrief.commanderbond.net/topic/42698-im-now-certain-fleming-wa snt-racist/

http://intellectualmediocrity.blogspot.com/2011/06/live-and-let-die-ia n-fleming.html

http://www.cyberussr.com/hcunn/e-asia/kor-c-flemg.html

http://www.bloggingthebookshelf.com/2010/11/14/here-goldfinger-took-th e-cat-from-under-his/

http://www.concrete-online.co.uk/is-james-bond-racist/

[–] highflight41 18 years ago

It must be remembered that the book was written in the 1950's when the word "coloured" was the accepted term for african americans. It was also more acceptable to refer to a person by their ethnicity/religion than it is today. As an example, consider the novel "Oliver Twist", where Fagin is repeatedly referred to as "The Jew". I must admit that when I read "Live and Let Die" back in the 70's I had a problem with the tone. I am sure Ian Fleming was a product of his generation (the one that defeated the Nazis, I might add)and if he were writing today it would have been different.

[–] fuzzybeasty 18 years ago

For all those who consider this movie racist (I don't and I'm half jamaican, half haitian), just remember this, this film was the sole reason for the creation of the 'Black Stuntmans Association Of America' because there weren't enough to be found in America at that time. All the black actors and players loved the film and working on the film. If you think this is racist to black people, you think Shaft is racist to black people too??

Just enjoy it for the good ride it is :)

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] fuzzybeasty 18 years ago

Maybe Bond films are goldist?

Goldinger - villain
The Man With The Golden Gun - villain
Goldeneye - weapon used by a villain

The evidence is pretty damning I think you'll all agree...

[–] Aussie239 18 years ago

Yes, I do think that some Bond films as well as 007 himself, are goldist. It is pretty sad, and I know that you evil racists will deny it, but the Bond series is goldist. Its just too bad that gold people like myself do not fight for our rights.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] BIBLEMAN3 18 years ago

who said this movie was racist

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] x_Captain_Obvious_x 18 years ago

It's a shame that the original thread is no longer posted so that I could read it. For some reason whenever there is a post calling a movie racist it's always on the basis that blacks are being discriminated against. If they are portrayed as villians people complain that it's stereotyping them as criminals and that they're not capable of being portrayed as heroes, if they are portrayed as heroes people complain that they're not shown as capable of being portrayed as villians, either way there is no way to win the arguement. Rarely mentioned is the fact that there is also blatant racial discrimination against the white characters as well in this film. For example, the Harlem thugs called Bond honky several times. As we all know honky is a racial slur meant to insult whites. Of course the most obvious stereotyping is of the southern sheriff. He is portrayed as the A-typical fat ignorant hillbilly redneck with his gut hanging over his belt, a mouth full of chewing tobacco, spitting everywhere and every word out of his mouth sounded like a retard yokel, all we needed was a "yeehah" to complete it. lol Even with these blatant stereotypings of white people and racial slurs against them I don't feel the need to call the movie racist because I wasn't offended.

The problem with people today is that they are offended by EVERYTHING! No one can say or do anything without someone standing up and screaming racism. The only way to combat and overcome racism is to make people aware of it through talk and understanding, not picking apart everything someone says or does looking for racial discrimination no matter how small, unobvious, trivial or non-existent.

"A fonzanoon is a person who farts in the bathtub and bites the bubbles."

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Aussie239 18 years ago

That bit about the blacks and the radical liberals was of the most intelligent things I have ever read.

[–] cwoliver-1 18 years ago

misterniceguye, you weren't offended because you choose not to be offended. If you really wanted to be offended you'd find a way; more people should think like you.

Those that cry racism when there is none make it harder to root it out where it does exist. Because of their poor creditability we are inclined to dismiss all accusations out-of-hand and discount them as alarmist.

If they want to be taken seriously then they had better make DAMN sure that it actually IS racism before they grab their brush. People should be niggardly in their use of the word racist. Just ask David Howard.

[–] x_Captain_Obvious_x 18 years ago

Be careful of using the word NIGGARDLY, people without a dictionary or vocabulary might think it's offensive and cry about it! lol

"A fonzanoon is a person who farts in the bathtub and bites the bubbles."

[–] rf926 17 years ago

in this day and age....you cant say anything, movies like blazing sadles could never be made. this stuff about african american, chineese american, mexican american..b.s. i am an american american. if your born in this country your an american. thats whats wrong with this country, everybody wants their cake and eat it too. keep your traditions, keep your language (hell i speak 4) but stop with the rest

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Kinematico 17 years ago

It's not a racist movie. Villains from Bond franchise have been from every ethnic group and race, from blondes like "Goldfinger" to black people like "Kananga".

I don't think we could blame Bond films for racism, perhaps Bond movies (at least the first ones) are misogynistic to some extent, but certainly not racist.

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]