MovieChat Forums > Slaughterhouse-Five (1972) Discussion > German recruitment of Allies

German recruitment of Allies

posted 19 years ago by The_Khazi
39 replies | jump to latest

It`s well-known that many other nationalities fought for the Germans willingly & un-willingly during WW2 but are there any accounts of U.S. pow`s signing up to fight for the Germans as regards the scene in the film?

I remember a picture of a former British pow who changed sides & had a Union Jack stitched on the sleeve of his German uniform.Hitler wanted to set up a British Division to fight the Russians but very few,perhaps about 13, signed up-the survivors were tracked down & executed after the war.

[–] luke_bannon 19 years ago

I don't really know. Only thing I know was there was a British facist party whose leader was a supporter of Hitler, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

ThE MaStER wOuLd NoT ApPrOvE- Torgo

[–] BitterAsHell 19 years ago

Luke:

That would be Oswald Mosley, leader of the British Union of Fascists. If I'm not mistaken, he was married in Germany, and Hitler atteneded the ceremony. He was imprisoned during the war, and died in 1980.

Also, William Joyce, an Irish-American-British follower of Mosley's, became a radio propagandist for the Nazis, broadcasting into Britain. Unlike Mosley, he was executed after the war.

[–] vidrat 19 years ago

"Also, William Joyce, an Irish-American-British follower of Mosley's, became a radio propagandist for the Nazis, broadcasting into Britain. Unlike Mosley, he was executed after the war."

Better known as: Lord Haw-Haw

[–] different-drummer 19 years ago

I never understood why he was convicted of treason, seeing that he wasn't actually a British subject.

Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain - Schiller

[–] spike-103 19 years ago

Joyce's trial for high treason began at the Old Bailey on 17th September, 1945. In court it was stated that although he was United States citizen he had held a British passport during the early stages of the war. It was therefore argued in court by Hartley Shawcross that Joyce had committed treason by broadcasting for Germany between September 1939 and July 1940, when he officially became a German citizen.

William Joyce was found guilty of treason and was executed on 3rd January 1946.

[–] illpoetikill 18 years ago

i think everybody associated with the nazis should have been executed, even and esspecially including the hitler youth, to whipe this plague of humanity from the face of the earth.

[–] spike-103 18 years ago

A reply from someone who has no concept of what happened during world war 2 or probably what it was even about.

[–] illpoetikill 18 years ago

i know what it was about, germans for the second time in as many decades trying to take over europe threw means of absolute force for no reason other than maddening domination and an insanely over confident superiority complex. what we should have done is let stalin have all of germany and every single one of its occupants (including the itelligience units) so he could have sucked every bit of worth out of them before gassing them all to death.

[–] spike-103 18 years ago

As I said, no real idea about the reasons behind it all. It was the comment about the Hitler youth ( and your spelling ) that shows up your naivity.

Any astounding comments about the film, which after all is what this thread is about ?

Perhaps you might like to give some insights on the film versus the book and the theme of the narrative and how you viewed what the film was trying to say ?

[–] spike-103 18 years ago

[–] southpaw734 18 years ago

Looks like you have no idea about the causes of World War I if you give all the blame to the Germans. Try reading a history book.

[–] illpoetikill 18 years ago

try having some real life experience with "former" nazi's. my step fathers mother was a hitler youth b itch, and she was just that, a bitter b itch. she was trained to be that way, and it has been passed on to her son, and his son, it is a plague that still infects our earth to this day. i dont give a damn about the book or the movie. you people are beeing nazi sympathizers, who cares about anything else than that, get your heads checked, are you beleiving some kind of neo nazi rewritten history about how germany was going to be attacked or something? what can you possibly tell me about ww1 or 2 that would indicate the germans were justified in killing tens of millions of innoscent people if not more? gassing jews, what are you going to say it never happend? read a history book. better yet, go meet a jew who was , by the grace of god, liberated from a concentration camp and ask him his opinion on nazi germany. or are you like mel gibson and hate jews? hmmmm...

[–] JeffKaos71 18 years ago

I'm a Jew who has survivors in my family, and by NO WAY a Nazi sympathizer
but its my understanding the Hitler Youth didn't have much choice. by 1936 membership was required by Law and was enforced even against the will of the parents. Boys as young as 10 yrs old were called up.

The current Pope spent some time in The Hitler Youth.He joined after his 14th b-day because it was legally required. Supposedly he "was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings. His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism, because he believed it was in conflict with their faith".

"The ocean is a desert with it's life underground
And a perfect disguise above"

[–] spike-103 18 years ago

illpoetikill

You sound like you have a number of issues that need resolving. No one is defending the actions of the nazi's in WW2, just saying that not everything is as cut and dried as hang every German, because they may have been a nazi.

Some counselling will help you with your rage about your family and the problems that you seem to have with step-parents.

Best of luck.

[–] spike-103 18 years ago

And as for the read a history book, I own about 500 history books, a good 100 being based on Germany from 1850 to 1950 as I am a historian. Will that do?

[–] illpoetikill 18 years ago

whatever you say genius, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to die in a gas chamber, or be mowed down by an mg43. and i realise first hand what hitler did to the "youth". whether they liked it or not they were exposed to raw doses of extremely far right wing propaganda, resulting in their minds being reshapened to think like a nazi, without their own will. it would have been a great service to the world to have eliminated these problems from the jump instead of bringing them here to the united states to breed more ignorance and ultra conservatism. and heres a little bit of history that probably isnt in the books youve read. about how the "vatican" helped nazi war criminals get out of germany by hiding them undercover as preists and the likes of clergymen. i would love to see the entire vatican completely disbanded, what with a nazi now running it, get real, a nazi pope!! thats as humorous as mickey mouse! HAHAHA

[–] spike-103 18 years ago

Why would a rocket scientist die in a gas chamber? Did lots of rocket scientists die in WW2? Are you blaming the Nazi's for the lack of rocket scientists? Actually most of the best rocket scientists were in fact Nazi's and a bundle of the them were shipped over to the US by the famous Democrat Kennedy to help put men on the moon.
The USA has always been ultra conservative, long before nazi's entered the country. You really must learn more about the history of your own country before hurling stones. Try reading Stannards American holocaust, about the wholesale slaughter of Indians by Americans, a policy endorsed by the Government of the day, very similar in ways to the Nazi regime of the 1930's and 40's.
Looking forward to your next thrilling installment of ranting and raving !

[–] spike-103 18 years ago

Also it's very common knowledge about the Vatican 'ratline'. Its what religous people do apparently, turn the other cheek.

[–] illpoetikill 18 years ago

turn the other cheek from whom? is that not what the jews did during the war, try to turn the other cheek? turn the other cheek to mass murderers and scientists of death? i do not need to read anything to see what has happened to my country since your people brought over the nazis. its systematic destruction of the u.s. culture that arose before ww2. we were a very far left leaning society after the great depression and you people on the right needed people like nazi propaganda scientists to win over the americans at any cost attainable. threw anymeans nessecary, which meant killing our left wing leaders, like kennedy, like martin luther king, like thousands of other young men and women who died in vietnam. the country we once knew died in vietnam and you nazis are the ones who killed us and are attempting to survive threw means of wal mart. how full is your shopping cart?

[–] fenix9991 18 years ago

suggesting to kill off thousands of children because they were exposed to evils... kinda sounds like hitler killing millions of jews because their religion was evil...
Yup you're a nazi. You want innocent people to die to make your life easier, thats pretty *beep* ridiculous, you seemed to have become what you hate. Sucks for you.

[–] illpoetikill 18 years ago

you do have a point there, ill admit that. i feel as though i might have the tiniest inkling of revenge that your average soviet citizen felt after ww2.
i think nazis brought out an extremely radical, murderous tendency amongst the communists. to avenge the millions of deaths the motherland suffered at the hands of nazi pigs. this is why i beleive they opposed the american nazis soo much after the war. its too bad the soviets lost the cold war because us average u.s. citizens are now constantly force fed nazi propaganda at a rate that we no longer notice and enthusiastically participate in. theres nothing like enjoying a five hour old big mac inside your favorite local wal mart. anybody up for a nobel peace prize? hey lets give it to a nazi, hell lets make a nazi the pope for christ sakes! : )

[–] jamesdean19197 18 years ago

it didn't start with tha nazi's and that's not where it ended either. m grand-fateher was a nazi and he is a good man. if you read some history books, you would see that after Germany was basically raped by america and other countries after WWI, they had very little left to live for. hitler was seen as a savior at first for what he gave to the country and he actually did a lot of good at first. i'm not condoning what he turned into at all, i'm just saying that you need to look at the situation. america has never been far to the left as you suggest and an time it seemed like that, it was just a facade. the american government has committed horrible acts since before its creation. look at america today. everyone who isn't white is a "terrorist" and if you don't support our killing of thousands and thousands of innocent people around the world them you are a "terrorist" and a "fascist". you want to know what the problem is in this world?

look in a mirror.

[–] illpoetikill 18 years ago

yup, i just looked in the mirror, i must say im one sexxy handsome man : )
thats what it is. germans are naturally ugly people, thats why they act like such savages and barbarians. its the viking mentality that you people have enstilled in your genes. yea, hitler did great things for germany. the greatest thing he did for the world was allowing hundreds of thousands of his young men to die on the russian front. that was great for the world. i mean just think about all those evil nazis that died in ww2, he did us a great justice by sending those young boys off to die. hooo rah to hitler. you rock dood, too bad we dont have another one of him in the world today, HEYYYYY, there is this one guy, i think hes the president of the united states or something??? maybe he can start another world war, wouldnt that be neat, kill off some of those ultra right wing nazified nazis. id love to kill me some nazis!

[–] dergeier117 18 years ago

Look, we started off discussing a legitimate point about the film, and now it's degenerated into racist name-calling. We are supposed to be intelligent people here! One of you claims to be a historian, I would expect better from an intellectual.

I may not personally agree with every opinion I hear, certainly not the PP's, but he has a right to express it without being torn from limb to limb like that. However, I'm not taking your side either, because insulting people who disagree with you is inexcusable.

Everyone just grow up and show a little decorum, for God's sake.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] dergeier117 18 years ago

What the hell did I say that sounded like I approved of the Nazis' actions? They were the *beep* of the world, there is no excuse for their crimes. I'm merely asking you to be a little more mature and at least consider the other guy's point of view. Think about it, if we kill everyone possibly related to them, how can we claim to be any better than they were?

[–] illpoetikill 18 years ago

its not about beeing better, its about them not beeing alive to be better or worse than anybody. thats my point. they still survive to this day. there was a man just rescently discovered to be an ss officer who was a top gaurd in a concentration camp living not too very far from me about a month ago. these "men" should not be aloud to breath air on this earth. they should be beaten to death by jewish midgets with kosher peni ses or have their old as ses put into forced labor camps until they die. germany should no longer excist. i think if we did not enter germany and give them an exit strategy stalin would have rolled over the entire country and destroyed it and its people just like hitler tryed to do to the soviet union. nazi pigs.

[–] aruthven_hughes 18 years ago

Your argument has a fundamental flaw, you see the communists controlled half of Germany and they DID NOT destroy their part of Germany and the population. Stalin Like many other leaders from the time used Nazi scientists and high ranking officers for various military, intelligence and scientific projects. You would also do well by remembering that stalin and hitler had a peace deal for some time and it was Hitler not Stalin who broke it. There were approximately 1.5 million members of the SS at it's height not all of them war criminals, do not mistake this as some form of apology for their actions, it is not. As a jew I have an inate sensibility towards the crimes commited in the shoah, I believe that there are many war criminals that did escape justice who when caught today should recive some sort of punishment. The idea of wiping out an entire people based upon your personal beliefs is abhorrent in the extreme and is a reflection of your childish reasoning. The fact that your ability to spell is somewhat haphazard says quite a lot about your mental (if not actual) age. I suggest you read some more books and watch some more films on the subject before making rather ridiculous statements. On the main topic of this thread in regards to the recruitment of allied soldiers into military service for the nazis, is quite true. There was the British free corps (SS unit), there were Danish, French, Azerbijani, Armenian, Flemish, Norwegian, Finnish and Dutch Freiwilligen volunteers (all of which served in SS units), there were also greek,estonian,ukranian,romanian,russian,bosnian,latvian,bulgarian,lithuanian, Indian,French, spanish and many,many more. There was The American Free Corps or George Washington Brigade as it was also known was a tiny 5 man unit of the SS used solely for propaganda purposes.

[–] illpoetikill 18 years ago

my stance remains the same. the germs should have been whiped out to a man. point blank.

[–] kdk7 17 years ago

is imdb really the place for crazy conspiracy theorists? aren't there a million other places on the internet for you to go?

[–] cowgoesmoo 18 years ago

There was an "American Free Corps", but it was mostly the work of propagandists. Although some individual Americans undoubtedly served in the German military, there wasn't a unit composed exclusively of Americans organized along the lines of the British Free Corps.

[–] fenix9991 17 years ago

that ill guy is homosexual and a nazi

[–] raidavies-1 17 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Free_Corps
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Free_Corps

[–] Roosterbooster 17 years ago

All nations who took POWs tried to get them to switch sides and fight for them. From Stalingrad onwards, a fairly large proportion of the "German" forces were actually "Hiwies" - Russian prisioners fighting in German uniform. Very few western prisoners joined the Nazis.

[–] aruthven_hughes 17 years ago

I know i'm being pedantic but they were called "Hiwis" not "hiwies" it means hilfswillige (volunteer assistant). They made up between 3%-25% of the frontline strength of the wehrmacht on the eastern front, ostensibly from operation barbarossa onwards. In Stalingrad Hiwis made up 25% of the 6th army's strength, probably the highest number of hiwis in any of the armies operating on the eastern front. This was due to a number of reasons which I won't go into.

[–] marklv 17 years ago

I am not aware of any Americans who joined up with the Germans, but some may have done. As for the British, around 30-35 joined up and formed a plotoon in the Waffen SS. I don't believe more than 4 or 5 were convicted for treason after the war as the British government wished to sweep all this under the carpet.

[–] aruthven_hughes 17 years ago

Off the top of my head there was a total of 59-60 men who joined the british free corps ( some for no more than a day). The unit itself never got over 27 men (standing). If I remember rightly thats less than a platoon. One should also not forget the 'volksdeutsche'- People who believed themselves to be true aryans moved to germany and joined the wehrmacht the waffen ss and the ss. They were from many, many nationalities including American.

[–] crselvz 17 years ago

The character of the 'Americanazi' Howard Campbell, Jr. was actually an invention of "Slaughterhouse-Five"'s author, Kurt Vonnegut Jr., who, like his protagonist Billy Pilgrim, was in fact a prisoner of war in Dresden in the last year of the war and survived the Allied firestorm. I do not know how the character came to Vonnegut ( it is possible, however unlikely, that he may actually have encountered one of the above-mentioned George Washington Brigade ), but if the character fascinates you, I enthusiastically refer you to another of Mr. Vonnegut's works, "Mother Night", which purports to be the reminiscences of Howard Campbell, Jr. in the 1960s, living in obscurity in New York until his identity is unearthed and he becomes a focus for both war criminal hunters and American neo-Nazis.
In the late '90s, the book was transformed into a faithfully-shot HBO movie starring Nick Nolte as Campbell, Alan Arkin as his neighbor and Sheryl Lee as his beloved wife whom he believed lost in the war. There is, I believe, no particular difference which one you should choose to peruse first, book or movie. It all depends whether you prefer words or pictures as your carriers of information. Whichever way you choose, I wish you an absorbing experience - it is a near certainty in either case.

( P.S. The book "Mother Night" carries a description of the outlandish outfit Campbell designed for his potential cadre of American Nazis. It is not like the uniform worn by Campbell in the movie, "Slaughterhouse-Five", nor was it to be seen in the film version of "Mother Night" - perhaps the makers of BOTH films decided it was, in the end, too ludicrous for view. I wish you fun in seeking out and comparing the two uniforms for yourself. )

[–] frankg-15 16 years ago

Quote = CRSELVZ "I enthusiastically refer you to another of Mr. Vonnegut's works, "Mother Night", which purports to be the reminiscences of Howard Campbell, Jr. in the 1960s, living in obscurity in New York until his identity is unearthed and he becomes a focus for both war criminal hunters and American neo-Nazis.
In the late '90s, the book was transformed into a faithfully-shot HBO movie" /Quote.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check it out. Kudos to the last 3 or so posters for reclaiming a wayward thread. Glad I stuck with it!