UK DVD query


Recently read that this movie has finally been released on DVD in the UK. However it has appently been cut to "comply with the protection of children act (whatever year it was)"

I already have the UK VHS version from the mid 90's, and am simply wondering if this contains the same cut as the new DVD?

Near the begining of the the VHS release there some child nudity (generally not a problem with UK censors) and the same boy involved in a sex scene, while I can see that being problematic I can not see what could have cut other than if it contained underage hardcore footage.

Quite simply I want to know if the new DVD is the same cut as the one on the old VHS?. If this is so I have no real intention of replacing my video (it's still a facinating movie cut or uncut), I just hate it when I buy a great arthouse or horror or whatever movie only to find that the BBFC have been at it with their scissors.





"I think you're a load of old crap too, Mr Mulligan!"

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No. It's not the same cut and hang onto your VHS copy because it is going to be highly collectable from now on, due to the fact that the BBFC have told the company that made it to burn all the copies and distribute no future copies of that version.

The BBFC passed the film uncut in the mid 1990s because Melvin Van Peebles set them a letter saying that the boy palying young Sweetback having sex with the woman was Hubert Scales, an actor who was at least 18 during filming. The Board bought it, and passed the film uncut with an 18 certificate.

However, during a second viewing of the film earlier this year while classifying the new DVD, the board only just discovered that the boy in the sex scene was really the directors son Mario, who could not have been older than about fourteen at the time.

The Board claimed they were well aware of the "cultural significance of this movie" but were forced to make the alterations when they discovered the scene was likely to be considered indecent under current UK law.

Therefore the new DVD version simply has a blank screen during the scene. Apparently it was basically covered in black ink in order to maintain the original soundtrack and running time.

In addition to this change, a caption has been added at the begining before the movie, at the request of the director, basically making the viewer aware of the new changes that have been made to the film in the DVD.

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Thanks for the info.

I have to admit that I was surprised when I first saw the VHS version. Yes these days the BBFC can be pretty open-minded and inteligent when awarding a certificate, but in the light of, say, the optical censoring of "In Realm of the Senses", this opening scene did seem somewhat odd.

I'm glad to own the uncut version and don't think the BBFC should have censored it. At the end of the day it is up to the courts to decide if something is indecent, not a dozen or so ultimatly unaccountable "educated" middle class people in an office in London. As rough and explicit as this movie is it is an important piece of art and should not be cut.






"I think you're a load of old crap too, Mr Mulligan!"

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Yeah too right. But if you go to the BBFC website and look up Sweetback on their database, it will give you the complete story with all the details.

Apparently the offending sequence could be caught under the Child Protection Act which makes it an offense to buy, own or sell and indecent photograph or video of a child.

I've just thought, does that mean that people like yourself who own the now "illegal" VHS version could be busted for kiddie porn possession?

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I addmit I am a little mean towards the BBFC, if they believe that the scene breaks the Child Protection Act then it is their job to cut it. The BBFC are a lot more consistant than they used to be (example: "Braindead" uncut, "Evil Dead" cut to shreds!*), but it just bugs me a lot that movies have to be centified. I do believe that if we have to have body to certify movies we should have a American style opt-in system.

Will be heading right to the BBFC website to see what they have to say about this movie. When I had a home internet conection I regularly would visit, but now I never even think too.

----- I've just thought, does that mean that people like yourself who own the now "illegal" VHS version could be busted for kiddie porn possession? -----

That had crossed my mind. Technically, yes I think I could be arrested, but would probably be given the choice of having the item destroyed before being prosecuted.

On top of that there is the fact that the movie was bought in good faith from a "reputable" small business and was at the time available legally having been passed uncut by th BBFC with an 18 cert. As such I do not believe it would be worth anybody's bother prosecuting me...

;-) That said, Please don't snitch on me!





* :-) yeah I know Evil Dead has since been passed uncut.

"I think you're a load of old crap too, Mr Mulligan!"

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[deleted]

This is taken from the British Board of Film Certification website (www.bbfc.co.uk), I draw your attention to paragraphs 4 (the BBFC wanted to pass it uncut):

----

This work was previously passed uncut on video by the BBFC in 1998 on the basis of written assurances from the film's director, Melvin Van Peebles, that the person playing young Sweetback having sex with an adult female in reel one was Hubert Scales, an actor who was at least 18 at time of filming.

Information that has come light since 1998 has cast considerable doubt on those assurances and it now appears to the BBFC, on the basis of the available evidence, that the actor in the scene in question was, in fact, the director's son, Mario Van Peebles, who cannot have been older than 14 years at time of filming.

The Protection of Children Act 1978 makes it an offence to distribute, possess or advertise an indecent photograph of a child. A 'child' is currently defined as a person under the age of 18 and there is no exception granted for the current distribution, possession or advertisement of images created prior to the legislation.

The fact that the scene in reel one appears to show a 13 or 14 year old boy realistically simulating sexual intercourse with an adult obviously raised concerns that some of the images in the sequence might be considered indecent images of a child. The BBFC is fully aware of the historical and cultural significance of the film and endeavoured to explore the possibility that the sequence might not be caught by the provisions of the Act. To test this proposition the BBFC took advice not just from its own specialist legal advisors but also from one of the leading QCs in this area. The legal advice was unequivocal: the sequence was likely to be considered indecent under current UK law.

Although this is clearly a work of considerable political, social and cultural importance the Board was bound by its obligation to seek to ensure that works likely to be in breach of the criminal law are not classified and so could not grant a certificate to this film unless changes were made. The film's director chose to make the intervention by obscuring the relevant images with black ink, thereby maintaining the original soundtrack and running time. A caption explaining the intervention was added to the front of the film by the distributor at the film director's request.

The video distributor granted a certificate in 1998 has been made aware of the issue and has undertaken not to distribute further copies of that version."

----

(a QC is a "Queen's Council", a rather archaic name for the highest rank of lawyer in the English and Welsh legal system.)

I think the problem wasn't wether the scene was simulated or real, the fact is had the actor in question been 18 or over (using movies like "Baise-Moi", "9 Songs", or even "Visitor Q" as recent precidents) this scene would almost certainly have been passed uncut for DVD release.

Neither was there a problem with the nudity of a minor (movies such as "Walkabout", "Prospero's Books" or even "Superman" all feature child/adolencent nudity and are available uncut), it is the fact that the "child" nudity in Sweet Sweetback's Badassssss Song is blatantly sexual in context. And let's be honest the scene is pretty, shall we say, earthy in it's use of language and image.

The fact however remains that this movie is something of an aquired taste and (in Europe anyway) an obscurity. Unlike "Superfly" or "Coffy" or "Shaft in Africa" (or even for that matter "Walkabout"...)it is unlikly to turn up unheralded as late night/early morning filler on BBC1 were anybody with a TV could see it. The people who will see this movie will have had to find it for themselves and as such are not likely to be offended by the opening sequence.

If the UK had an opt-in rather than manditory certification system this movie would (like in USA) slipped under the mainstream radar and probably have faced no censorship problems.







"I think you're a load of old crap too, Mr Mulligan!"

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So Melvin van Peebles *lied* to the BBFC? Tsk Tsk. Actually the version I saw did have several "blackouts" during the opening credits, does this mean I was watching a copy censored by the BBFC?

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>>If the UK had an opt-in rather than manditory certification system this movie would (like in USA) slipped under the mainstream radar and probably have faced no censorship problems.<<

But that would leave the distributors open to prosecution for distributing kiddie porn. Who'd risk that? Imagine not just being sent to prison, but sent as a child pornographer. You'd have every hardman and headcase after you. Your life wouldn't be worth living.

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1) The distributors of the original uncut VHS edition where not prosecuted. As such it is doubtful the BFI would be prosecuted for releasing an uncut DVD edition.

2) This movie is not kiddie porn it is an exploitation movie.

3) Even if they were prosecuted it would have made a good test case. The British Film Institute distributing a highly influential and successful (minor) classic movie would certainly have more clout than some two bit indie company distributing some Asian movie no one has ever heard of.

4) There are many movies featuring adolescent nudity, sometimes in a sexual context, certificated by the BBFC and freely available here in the UK. Off the top of my head: "To the Devil a Daughter", "Toto the Hero", "My Life As a Dog" and "Return To Blue Lagoon"









"Who's driving this plane? Stan Butler?"

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