Probably one of the more famous scenes, if not famous posters for the film, is Steve McQueen jabbing his two fingers in the air, a gesture directed towards the Ferrari driver. Someone told me that it was in reference to "second place", but is that correct?
shareThat is a possibility. I thought it was in reference to the victory hand symbol. The victory symbol is similar to the "peace" hand symbol, except that the back of the hand is towards the person who is being given the symbol. I expect that the "peace" symbol was cheekily ripped off of the victory symbol. In France there is a Victory monument which consists of a hand showing the victory symbol.
I was never able to decide whether or not McQueen was giving a "2nd place" gesture to the other driver, or whether he was instead giving the victory symbol.
If I remember right thr two fingers were more of gesture of 'up yours'.
shareI think you're right. I looked up "rude gestures" and it said similar things. Thanks for the feedback.
shareI found a web address for a poster of McQueen giving the two fingers, with origin of the salute. Go to 'www.autosportsltd.com' It's a web for Michael Keyser, director of 'The Speed Merchants'.
shareHere in Britain the 'two finger salute' is an insult, dating back to the battle of Agincourt, I think, when the french, fearing the English archers with their longbows, threatened to cut off the archers bow fingers (first two fingers on the right hand) after the battle. With the battle well and truly won, the english archers gave the french this two fingered salute to mock them.
Sorry, just a bit of useless trivia I thought you might enjoy!
You're right, this is a sort of english less rude way for the international insult with the middle finger up. Nigel Snowden suggested it to McQueen on the set of the film.
I have a section on my website for the two fingers salute: www.lemanslegend.it
Ciao
Lorenzo
That story about Agincourt is a recently fabricated myth. No trace of this story can be found before the 1990's! The two fingered salute is well known in the British Isles as an insult. Michael Delaney is here using it ambiguously to Eric Stahler to say 'I was second' and 'up yours'.
shareit's the victory symbol
share"it's the victory symbol"
No, he is making an obscene gesture.
Originally Delaney (McQueen) was supposed to give Stahler (Rauch) the middle finger. Motorsports photographer Nigel Snowden suggested that a driver, especially on the Continent, would use the British version instead.
Why would Delaney give the victory symbol? He didn't win.
I'm Irish and i would give a 2 finger salute before extending my middle finger to someone, it's just the way it's done over here
shareI'm not sure. I found it a bit surprising that an American would do a salute like that, or any kind of salute. It reminds me a bit of Liam Gallagher of the band Oasis who seems to do that salute on a regular basis.
shareMcQueen's character is an American, but his racing career has been spent in European racing series.
Since the British had (and still do have) a heavy influence (journalistic, technical & managerial) in European auto racing, he would have naturally picked up British gestures as a result of spending a lot of time working and mixing with Englishmen. The Gulf-Porsche Team he drives for was, in real life, a British-based team with British management and mechanics (even though the cars were German and the sponsor American).
Personally, I think it may serve both purposes but we have to look also at Eric Stahler's reaction to it... he nodded his head and gave a "not bad" gesture back to Delaney. To me it was sort of a 2nd place boast and a friendly "up yours" at the same time. I'm not sure I agree that just because he drove that race for JW that we can assume his career had been spent in European auto racing... race drivers in those days really got around. Check out "Winning" with Paul Newman. Talented drivers were in high demand and drove many cars on many tracks and in many different countries.. not to mention they may also have competed in several different classes... GT, Stockers, Can-Am, F1, etc during the same season. For example, Pedro Rodriguez in 1970 raced for Owen Racing Organisation and Yardley Team BRM for F1 and raced a Porsche 917 K for JW at Le Mans and a NART 512S at Road America for the 1970 Can-Am and a BRM P154 at Donnybrook.
sharewhy the gesture happened goes back to the scene where delaney tells stahler not to be a pain in his bum. with the finish of the race being as close as it was, that made stahler a pain and that's why he got the salute.
shareI agree that it's very clear he's giving Stahler the "up yours" gesture. Remember, Stahler tried to psych him out before the race by telling him to "be careful" and Delaney responded, "Don't be a pain in the @$$." Stahler's words were a kind of violation of a Hemingway-like code (I think the influence of Hemingway is everywhere in this film). Drivers don't need to be reminded to "be careful" and Stahler was clearly trying to make Delaney dwell on the lethal crash of the year before. The "up yours" at the end is Delaney giving it back to him, good naturedly, and Stahler's reaction is a shrugging acceptance of it, as if to say, "Hey, I had to try."
sharegaylestephen, your third sentence rhymes awesomely
shareI saw it as a double entendre. McQueen switched from car 20 to car 22 and still beat his rival. When he does the two finger salute notice he shakes his hand as if showing 2...2, meaning he beat his rival with car 22, instead of his originally assigned car 20. It may have been a playful double entendre with the British version of "fu** you"
shareHe was switched to car 21 though, not 22.
shareMini Sasquatch has it exactly right...... it's the 'salute' the English archers gave the French, who did have a habit of cutting off Archers' string fingers. If you question this, simply get the book "French Kiss of Death" which is about the filming of the movie, and you'll get the whole story.
share[deleted]
"Hundreds of years ago when the English and the French were doing battle, any English longbowman who fell into the hands of the enemy often had two fingers of his "string-pulling" hand loped off. Should he escape, this would prevent him from plying his trade. So in Battle, English longbowmen would taunt the French by raising the two fingers across the lines to show they were still potent warriors."
Tony Adamowicsz, Professional Race Car Driver, competed in many Sports & Prototype races in the early 1970's, including the actual 1970 Le Mans race.
"...and if the bible has taught us anything (and it hasn't)..." Homer
Absolutley correct here. It's a salute (thogh not insulting to Stahler) referencing the old English tale of having those 2 fingers cut off if captured. Here, Delaney makes the salute to Stahler to say he's gone to battle and still has his "fingers" or his life or career to show for it and will do battle again. That's why Stahler respectfully acknowledges Delaney's symbol that he's "still here".
shareYes, it was about Delaney's 2nd place finish, you can tell by Stahler's "not bad" return gesture.
shareGood lord, people, it's a friendly "F you" to the other driver. Agincourt had nothing to do with it, nor does the codswallop about archer's fingers. It's a crotch. The tip of the thumb is usually nestled there to indicate a scrotum. When Churchill made it into the "V for victory" during WWII, he also knew damned well what it really meant, and what he really meant (and not in a friendly way) by using it.
What I had in mind was boxing the compass.share