MovieChat Forums > Dirty Harry (1971) Discussion > how does it still have such a high ratin...

how does it still have such a high rating? it aged horribly

posted 13 years ago by Superunknovvn
71 replies | jump to latest

i know that "dirty harry" and eastwood's portrayal of him had a huge influence on pop culture, but there are just soooo many outdated elements in this movie, it's unjustified to rate it anything over 6/10.

the authorities (including callahan) are morons in this movie: how would zodiac get away from the roof top after he has been spotted by a police helicopter? why do callahan and his partner start a shoot-out with zodiac on another rooftop and how do they not call for back-up, but let him get away? the whole chase to the stone cross thing is utter crap. why would harry and his partner do that on their own? why would harry torture the killer on sight? what police man in his right mind does that and isn't let go immediately afterwards? on the other hand, which police president says stuff like "it's a shame that any police officer should know how to handle [a knife]"?! what? why wouldn't the police know how to handle a weapon, especially one as simple and common as a knife? and finally, what idiot mayor gives a killer "his word" not to bother him and stands by it???

the police are clairvoyants: from how they figure out from which rooftop zodiac will strike next to how callahan magically appears in front of the bus in the end. also: how convenient that te doctor who took care of zodiac's leg could identify him - as a guy who happens to hang out next door!

so many random scenes that are unnecessary: callahan talking down the jumper. the bank robbery. the liquor store. the peeping tom scene. (what was callahan actually doing there?)

and which law would actually let zodiac go? even if they couldn't use the rifle or pin the murder of the girl on him, he almost killed two police officers. why in the world would he be back on the street so quickly?

finally, andrew robinson's performance is kinda fun, but lord, it must be one of the worst cases of over-acting, i've ever seen.

wow, having written down all of that, i actually think the movie is much worse than 6/10.

go on, tell me how wrong i am.

"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school"

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Superunknovvn 13 years ago

hilarious.

"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school"

[–] ferris209 13 years ago

"how would zodiac get away from the roof top after he has been spotted by a police helicopter?"

Buildings have multiple exits, and most of the buildings I know of have several different sides. Some even have underground tunnels from one to the other.

why do callahan and his partner start a shoot-out with zodiac on another rooftop and how do they not call for back-up, but let him get away?

Cell phones did not exist in 1971 and the issuance and use of hand held radios wasn't widespread at the time this movie was made. These guys had to do what they had to do when they could it. Not run away and use a phone.

the whole chase to the stone cross thing is utter crap. why would harry and his partner do that on their own?

Again, communication was not as easy then as it is now. Additionally, they did not know where Scorpio was and they did not want to risk being seen by having multiple officers running behind Harry.

why would harry torture the killer on sight? what police man in his right mind does that and isn't let go immediately afterwards?

The world is a rough and hard place where people let their emotions get the better of them and, get this crazy rumor, COPS ARE PEOPLE not robots. I think it is way more realistic that an Officer would act this way, even today, considering the circumstances.

on the other hand, which police president says stuff like "it's a shame that any police officer should know how to handle [a knife]"?! what? why wouldn't the police know how to handle a weapon, especially one as simple and common as a knife?

Knives are actually very difficult weapons to master, much less use. Not only the optimum ways to handle the knife, but the locations of a human body to stick it to have maximum effect. Also, he wasn't a "police President", he was a Police Captain.

[b]and finally, what idiot mayor gives a killer "his word" not to bother him and stands by it??? [b]

A politician. I figure that's pretty much self explanatory.

I think this film aged very beautifully and is a treat to watch to this day.

[–] Superunknovvn 13 years ago

seriously, man, your love for this movie is so great that you have to act like a child and write stuff like "Not everyone is perfect like you". how old are you?

and on top of that: trying to "explain" all these idiotic elements the way you do is even more ridiculous than the movie itself. it's one thing to acknowledge suspension of disbelief. it's another to actually believe in a movie like "dirty harry". but good for you. movies must be so entertaining with that mindset.

"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school"

[–] ferris209 13 years ago

Lol!

[–] cratarded 12 years ago

I agree, as an answer, that is all that was needed!

[–] LivingWitness 8 years ago

Yes, hello? Irony, is that you?

[–] kstrtroi 12 years ago

I'm sorry, I know this is a dated discussion, but I have to chime in. I know everyone will chop off my head for saying this, but I have to agree with the OP on his ORIGINAL point.

Watched it again for the second time...

The pacing of the film felt awkward, the plot felt contrived, and overall, it just wasn't believable. I'm not going to get into it bit by bit, I have just too many issues with this film to spend the time. But, hey, that's just my opinion.

By the way, I'm a HUGE fan of: French Connection, The Conversation, Once Upon a Time in the West, All the Presidents Men, Dog Day Afternoon, Apocalypse Now, Taxi Driver, Deer Hunter, The Sting, Wild Bunch, the original Manchurian Candidate, Chinatown, and Network.

These are just a FEW of some of the greatest films I have ever seen, almost ALL from the "Golden" Era of Films. But, I still don't care much for Dirty Harry.

MAYBE, 'Dirty Harry' fits in one of those nostalgia feeling films. It has that 60s/70s crime charm to it? But, a great film that stood the test of time? I think not. I'll watch the French Connection twenty times more than watch this again. Deer Hunter is amazing...Dirty Harry? No. Chinatown stood the test of time. Godfather stood the test of time. Casablanca stood the test of time. Not Dirty Harry. AGAIN! just my opinion.

[–] BuddyLove63 11 years ago

To me it's The French Connection that feels more dated than Dirty Harry. It's also slow paced and kind of dull/boring. Dirty Harry, in contrast, zips along and the dialogue is awesome. I can't recall even one line from The French Connection and I've seen it 3 times. All The French Connection has really going for it is that chase scene. That's about it.

[–] tazikhay 13 years ago

I am 17, I recently saw this film and loved it despite it being made over 40 years ago. Who care how it has "aged"? If a film's brilliant it's brilliant. You don't have to like it, but a lot of people love it. The things that make it great, for me, are the fantastic lead character, the writing and the great look of the film, these things won't age except the latter which if anything has aged well. It is an extremely well made film especially for what is basically a cop/action film from 40 years.

[–] manofsteel4455 13 years ago

I don't understand why people have a problem watching movies from the 50's,60's,and 70's.Those were the days when people knew how to make great movies!

You want to play the game, you'd better know the rules, love.
-Harry Callahan

[–] Times_Up 8 years ago

I agree, I think the 70s is probably the height of cinema. A lot of my favorite films come from that decade.

We’re trying to pretend as if these comic books don’t exist. - David Goyer on the DCEU

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] arentol 13 years ago

1.) It's SCORPIO, not Zodiac. Did you actually watch the movie?
2.) In the early 70's police CCC (command, control, communication) was not like it is today. It would take much longer for the helicopter to get backup to the right area and make sure they understand who they are looking for. All he had to do was lose the helicopter before the squad cars showed up, which he apparently did. Yeah it wasn't explained, but it really wasn't integral to the story so who cares.
3.) They started a shootout because that was the plan. Why was it the plan? I am not sure. I will admit freely it was a lame plan, but it was their approved plan.
4.) Remember that Harry wasn't supposed to be followed to the cross and he didn't even know where he was going or that the cross would be the final destination until he got there. His partner was listening in, but couldn't call for backup until Scorpio actually showed up in person for fear of blowing the whole deal and not rescuing the girl, which was all they really cared about at that point. He probably did call backup right before he ran for the cross, and it arrived eventually.
5.) Speaking of rescuing the young girl, that was why Harry tortured the guy. All he cared about at that point was rescuing her.
6.) Police officers are not normally trained to use knives in any way. When was the last time you saw or heard of a police officer drawing a knife on someone? Yeah, NEVER. Yes we all know how to stick a knife in someone, but that is different from being trained or experienced in knife combat. We can assume from the context of that statement that Harry has a small history with knives and other officers know that he knows how to use them well.
7.) The whole POINT of the mayor knuckling under to Scorpio's demands was to show how soft he and others were on crime at the time. He was intended to be the polar opposite of Harry, and that was one way he displayed that fact.
8.) Scorpio told them the exact route he was taking to the airport. Did you even watch the movie?
9.) The doctor thing was a mistake on Scorpio's part. He was injured and scared, and he screwed up. Not that surprising really. Also he lived and worked nearby (not next door, a few blocks away actually). He didn't just hang out nearby.
10.) The jumper, bank robbery, liquor store, they were all about establishing the character. Movies these days are different, tighter and more focused, but that doesn't make these bad or unnecessary scenes. These days similar scenes would still be in the movie, but would be presented differently and you would love them.
11.) Again, have to ask if you even watched the movie.... After Scorpio was chased off the roof all the police in the city were on the lookout for him. Harry and his partner thought they saw someone matching his description go down that alley so they went down there too. Then Harry saw the guy go in that building and then saw the light in that apartment come on immediately thereafter. Thus he was trying to figure out if the person in that apartment was Scorpio. And then he got distracted by massive tracts of land....
12.) The police officers were, strictly speaking, engaged in criminal activity at the time they arrested Scorpio (Breaking and entering), not to mention torture. So they were not about to try and press charges regarding ANYTHING that happened during that incident for fear he would sue the city and press charges against the officers. They had no other direct evidence against him for anything else either, so they had to let him go.

All that being said, you aren't wrong. That is the great thing about opinions, they are almost never actually wrong. For you it was a 6/10, or worse movie. That is fine. I just hope I have been able to answer some of your questions about the movie so you have a better understanding of what really happened.

[–] Superunknovvn 13 years ago

hey arentol,

thanks for replying in such detail. yeah, i wasn't trying to say that i was being right or wrong. to me, who hasn't seen the movie when it was released originally, it just seemed like a terribly dated film.

just a couple of things about your points (again, just opionion-based):

1.) It's SCORPIO, not Zodiac. Did you actually watch the movie?

did I write zodiac? i must have been distracted by the fact that scorpio was, of course, inspired by the real life zodiac killer.

2.) In the early 70's police CCC (command, control, communication) was not like it is today. It would take much longer for the helicopter to get backup to the right area and make sure they understand who they are looking for. All he had to do was lose the helicopter before the squad cars showed up, which he apparently did. Yeah it wasn't explained, but it really wasn't integral to the story so who cares.

well, i thought it would have been integral to show how he got away. it would kind of be the same to show james bond in some kind of trouble getting chased by bad guys and then just cutting in the middle of the chase and saying: "oh, he got away. on with the story..." (you might as well use a movie with a more realistic setting than james bond as an example)

3.) They started a shootout because that was the plan. Why was it the plan? I am not sure. I will admit freely it was a lame plan, but it was their approved plan.

yeah, police men who come up with a plan like that are really in the wrong line of work.

4.) Remember that Harry wasn't supposed to be followed to the cross and he didn't even know where he was going or that the cross would be the final destination until he got there. His partner was listening in, but couldn't call for backup until Scorpio actually showed up in person for fear of blowing the whole deal and not rescuing the girl, which was all they really cared about at that point. He probably did call backup right before he ran for the cross, and it arrived eventually.

it just seems to me that the police would be able to figure out a more effective way to handle that. or at least, they wouldn't just send out harry and his parnter and the rest of the force kind of goes about their business and waits for their call to hear how it all went. it literally seemed, as if harry's boss just sent them off and said: "good look, you two. give us call when you're finished, yeah?"

5.) Speaking of rescuing the young girl, that was why Harry tortured the guy. All he cared about at that point was rescuing her.

i get that, but again: zero sympathy for harry here. professional police men don't behave that way. as soon as he does that, he stops being the hero in this movie for me. (and that's one of the problems: harry is supposed to be a hero, not an anti-hero. yeah, he may be a gritty character, but one that we, the audience, are supposed to stand behind 100%)

6.) Police officers are not normally trained to use knives in any way. When was the last time you saw or heard of a police officer drawing a knife on someone? Yeah, NEVER. Yes we all know how to stick a knife in someone, but that is different from being trained or experienced in knife combat. We can assume from the context of that statement that Harry has a small history with knives and other officers know that he knows how to use them well.

okay, so there may be more to knife combat than just sticking the thing into some poor guy's chest. but i didn't assume from the context that harry had a history with knives, and i don't think we were supposed to. it was more like harry's boss went: "yikes!! a knife! don't hurt yourself with that." and even though police officers don't carry knives around with them, i do think that it's not at all absurd that they'd get training with different kinds of weapons, including knives.

7.) The whole POINT of the mayor knuckling under to Scorpio's demands was to show how soft he and others were on crime at the time. He was intended to be the polar opposite of Harry, and that was one way he displayed that fact.

i get the point. it's only that it was totally unbelievable.

8.) Scorpio told them the exact route he was taking to the airport. Did you even watch the movie?

and how did harry get there before scorpio? travel by map? (muppets-reference, in case you haven't seen the new movie)

9.) The doctor thing was a mistake on Scorpio's part. He was injured and scared, and he screwed up. Not that surprising really. Also he lived and worked nearby (not next door, a few blocks away actually). He didn't just hang out nearby.

okay. convenient.

10.) The jumper, bank robbery, liquor store, they were all about establishing the character. Movies these days are different, tighter and more focused, but that doesn't make these bad or unnecessary scenes. These days similar scenes would still be in the movie, but would be presented differently and you would love them.

weird aussumption. don't think i can agree.

11.) Again, have to ask if you even watched the movie.... After Scorpio was chased off the roof all the police in the city were on the lookout for him. Harry and his partner thought they saw someone matching his description go down that alley so they went down there too. Then Harry saw the guy go in that building and then saw the light in that apartment come on immediately thereafter. Thus he was trying to figure out if the person in that apartment was Scorpio. And then he got distracted by massive tracts of land....

pointless and ricidulous scene.

12.) The police officers were, strictly speaking, engaged in criminal activity at the time they arrested Scorpio (Breaking and entering), not to mention torture. So they were not about to try and press charges regarding ANYTHING that happened during that incident for fear he would sue the city and press charges against the officers. They had no other direct evidence against him for anything else either, so they had to let him go.

maybe you're on to something here. it just seems reeeeeeaally hard to believe that scorpio would just walk after everything he's done, that not even the press would pick up the case. no, the press would believe scorpio and work against the police. seems really far fetched to me.

"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school"

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Superunknovvn 13 years ago

Thank you for your advice. I know now that I have to stop watching films. It's the only way. I obviously don't get the fact that they are only meant to be entertaining for five minutes until they become irrelevant. How could I think that movies were supposed to work outside of the context of their time, when clearly NO movie that has ever been made stood the test of time. Yes, your example with "Zodiac" works brilliantly. Since that is a movie set in the 70s, it's pretty much the same as a movie from that time and every bit as out-dated as "Dirty Harry".

Thank you again. Now, please lecture me on music, literature, politics as well, so I may learn my way around these confusing subjects as well.

"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school"

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Superunknovvn 13 years ago

roegcamel, what's funny is that you accuse me of being on my high horse of sarcasm, when it's you who keeps dishing out snooty judgement.

your main point that every movie dates and every one who complains about it is a "buffoon", is as simple as it is wrong - and it's all the funnier that you seem to feel like an english literature professor whilst articulating it as lofty as you can.

and how do you expect me to react to a question like: "where the hell do you fit in?" i mean, i'm ever so thankful that you opened my eyes for how i don't seem to fit in ANYWHERE. and of course, that's all anyone should do: adjust to the opinion of others and fit the hell in!

oops, sarcasm again. let me try a straight answer: you fail to make at least one valid or interesting point. which would be alright, if you weren't such a stuck up prick about it.

"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school"

[–] cratarded 12 years ago

You're obviously not a proper troll, as you do respond in detail, though the abuse doesn't help! You haven't revealed your age that I've seen- I hate bringing that up as my favourite movies were before I was born. Plus, with a different view, a 17-year-old poster has said how they love this movie.

So, what's dated about it (other than bell-bottoms, afros, music and any other '70s style)? I think despite being the previous decade to these, it's aged as well as Die Hard or Lethal Weapon. They'll all be of their time in one way or another (styles of the time), and if that's wrong, we may as well take the pee out of our grandparents for aging horribly or at least for having black-and-white photos of when they were young.

[–] SteveH2002 13 years ago

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12.) The police officers were, strictly speaking, engaged in criminal activity at the time they arrested Scorpio (Breaking and entering), not to mention torture. So they were not about to try and press charges regarding ANYTHING that happened during that incident for fear he would sue the city and press charges against the officers. They had no other direct evidence against him for anything else either, so they had to let him go.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

maybe you're on to something here. it just seems reeeeeeaally hard to believe that scorpio would just walk after everything he's done, that not even the press would pick up the case. no, the press would believe scorpio and work against the police. seems really far fetched to me.

Both the DA and the judge, in the scene after the stadium/torture scene, told Harry he - Harry - had stepped over the line and violated so many of Scorpio's Constitutional rights that they not only couldn't make a case against him, but that they couldn't charge him with anything.

I think what the movie was assuming was the press would take the 'violated rights' angle and ignore the police case.

I also think Harry knew he'd already violated the 'punk's' rights and if he didn't find out where the girl was right then, with Scorpio wounded and bleeding on the stadium field, he never would. Yeah, he was torturing the guy, but it was the only way they were ever going to rescue the girl.

It was a different era - hawks vs doves, hippies vs anyone over 30, the left against the right. Conservatives saw society breaking down and Dirty Harry was made for a conservative audience.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] SteveH2002 13 years ago

Hippie pays a black man to beat him up so hippie can accuse the cops - Harry in particular - of police brutality? Hippie is obviously guilty as hell but is able to hide behind the Constitution and remain free to continue terrorizing and killing law abiding citizens because the system doesn't allow the cops to do their jobs?

The pov in this movie is a couple of degrees to the right of Attila the Hun.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] SteveH2002 13 years ago

Whatever. lol. So I'm guessing you're liberal/left of center?

Left of center, yeah - but not much left of it. I'm a big fan of Eastwood and a huge fan of John Wayne - don't care much at all for Jane Fonda or Michael Moore. Not sure if my taste in movies and performers tags me politically or not.

And, for whatever it's worth, I'm also a fan of Don Siegel in general and Dirty Harry in particular. The Shootist (Siegel directed, John Wayne's last movie) is the greatest last movie of any star's career.

[–] stevegallanter 13 years ago

You will recall that Harry Callahan tosses away his badge in the last scene of this film. DIRTY HARRY paints the police as ineffectual and corrupt thus enabling Scorpio. This is NOT a right wing movie but a movie that decries the lack of moral authority anywhere. That is why Harry Callahan throws away his badge in an homage to HIGH NOON.

[–] Island_Of_Ireland 13 years ago

well the liqor store scene...aside from being absolutely hilarious, also shows us how scorpio quickly gets his hands on another gun

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] FilmKoala 13 years ago

You know what? The OP is pretty much right yet everyone rushes to blindly defend the movie. C'mon, now. I really enjoy Dirty Harry but to pretend that it's perfect is a little silly.

--------------------
"Ram this in your clambake, bitchcakes!"

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] FilmKoala 12 years ago

Nostalgia is a funny thing, no? It clouds one's judgment.

--------------------
"Ram this in your clambake, bitchcakes!"

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] anfinke 12 years ago

I don't get the OP. He accuses others (who actually DID make points and refute his criticisms by offering explanations) of not making a point, when he had nothing to say as to WHY the scenes were implausible.

One "point" of his I don't get is how he thinks Harry is "unprofessional". Sure, if someone saw a man/cop torturing another in the middle of a football most would be shocked. But thanks to the power of cinema we have the luxury of perspective. The perspective of knowing that Scorpio is guilty and harry was acting under duress. That is why this criticism makes no sense.

Even if he thinks these scenarios are far-fetched, it would sooner make it stupid than "dated".

[–] pking-2 12 years ago

The OP is pretty much right

No.

the authorities (including callahan) are morons in this movie: how would zodiac get away from the roof top after he has been spotted by a police helicopter?

Countless people have gotten away from far more than a single helicopter.

why do callahan and his partner start a shoot-out with zodiac on another rooftop and how do they not call for back-up, but let him get away?

Call for back up? He's going to shoot the priest within seconds/minutes. You fail. Your plan to have Harry and Chico sit there while Scorpio kills again is even worse.

the whole chase to the stone cross thing is utter crap. why would harry and his partner do that on their own?

They were ordered to deliver the money with a single cop...They were actually breaking the rules and overstaffed. But since the point was crystal clear that the mayor/chief were following Scorpio's rules...there's your answer.

why would harry torture the killer on sight?

To get the info about the girl before the oxygen ran out.

what police man in his right mind does that and isn't let go immediately afterwards?

Why, Dirty Harry, of course. You seem to have missed most of the point of this story.

which police president says stuff like "it's a shame that any police officer should know how to handle [a knife]"?! what?

President? It was an illegal switchblade, exemplifying why Harry represents a cop who acts more like a bad guy than the "president" and so on are comfy with.

what idiot mayor gives a killer "his word" not to bother him and stands by it???

A mayor. Again, you seem to be missing the point.

the police are clairvoyants: from how they figure out from which rooftop zodiac will strike next to how callahan magically appears in front of the bus in the end.

They're obviously guessing and sometimes right, but other times they miss Scorpio altogether (thus the 10-year-old boy killing, the kidnapping of the girl, the taking of the schoolbus.) If anything...this spot is the only place out of about six that the police ever do catch Scorpio.

The bus route is explained over the phone in the film.

How convenient that te doctor who took care of zodiac's leg could identify him - as a guy who happens to hang out next door!

That was a lucky break. Your point is that people don't recognize locals when they get emergency care? That would be false.

so many random scenes that are unnecessary: callahan talking down the jumper. the bank robbery. the liquor store. the peeping tom scene. (what was callahan actually doing there?)

Harry was looking to see if it was Scorpio, but it was not.

The "that scene was unnecessary" IMDb complaint is idiotic. The entire movie is of course, unnecessary. It could have been a text scrawl that read "Harry killed Scorpio. The end." But then, we wouldn't have much character/tone/entertainment/cinema value, would we? So...judiciously cherry picking at scenes as unnecessary is silly. They are there to comprise a movie. The movie is about more than just primary plot points -- there are subplots, atmospheric scenes, etc etc etc.

which law would actually let zodiac go? even if they couldn't use the rifle or pin the murder of the girl on him, he almost killed two police officers. why in the world would he be back on the street so quickly?

Because, forces never have to let folks go after not using search warrants, miranda rights, and using police brutality. Right? This is the part you point to as unrealistic? The luckiness of spotting Scorpio from the helicopter, or that he lived near the hospital at least make a case for the plot hinging on some fictional luckiness...but this aspect is because the point of the story is about how police who break the rules like Harry have to let criminals go free...that part is the most realistic part of this whole story...

[–] jstang411 12 years ago

pking-2 -- almost don't want to comment cause it might people less likely to make people read your post (and please do people...the one above).

Standing on my chair right now clapping. Wouldn't it be so nice if people trying to skewer a movie actually paid attention to it...or at least thought about what was in it?

[–] zaraath 12 years ago

which police president says stuff like "it's a shame that any police officer should know how to handle [a knife]"?! what? why wouldn't the police know how to handle a weapon, especially one as simple and common as a knife?

I think they meant a switchblade, which are illegal almost everywhere (although maybe not in 1971).

I found a switchblade while going through a deceased relative's belongings and couldn't get it to close, the unlocking mechanism was not intuitive. I had to toss it.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]