MovieChat Forums > Catch-22 (1970) Discussion > question about scene w/Snowden

question about scene w/Snowden

posted 18 years ago by MsBubbles
24 replies | jump to latest

I was thinking the scene with Snowden had to be all in Yossarian's head. I didn't quite get what that scene meant or where they were supposed to be. I guess it was just another one of his experiences in the war?

I just watched this movie 2 days ago for the first time. Actually I'm ashamed to say, I'd never even heard of it until then. I loved the repartee, and after reading many of the postings on this board, am interested in reading the book. I can't stand to read novels, unless they aren't your typical novel, so this one sounds great.

Like "Network", too many brilliant phrases in this movie to mention.

[–] TexasRaider 18 years ago

The scene comes from the book - Yossarian's plane was shot up and crashed and a new gunner, Snowden, was mortally wounded as a result. Yossarian thought he only had an injured leg and tried to put a tourniquet on it. However, upon trying to move the kid after patching up the leg, Snowden's stomach and intestines spilled out all over the floor from a hideous rupture.

This, if I remember right, was the transitional moment affecting Yossarian to such a degree that he refused to fly anymore missions. As he says in the book, he was not afraid to die, just of dying prematurely as a young man either at the hands of the Germans or his own chain of command (whom we feared much more, as they kept raising the number of missions required before rotating home).

But, the incident did happen: the movie just portrays it in such a way as to make it seem as if it is a dream sequence.

The book is good, but the cast of charaters is very lengthy - you may need to make a program to know who the players are. There is also a sequel written in 1994 called "Closing Time", but I don't think most die hard fans of Heller's "Catch 22" original are nearly as warm to it.

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

[–] MsBubbles 18 years ago

Ahah! Thank you so much for explaining.

[–] jaco_duar 18 years ago

I thought that he also refused to wear his uniform after Snowden showed his "secret"?

[–] richard_evans1 18 years ago

The 'secret' refers to the way in which Snowden's fatal wound was a secret until Yossarian removes his flak jacket.

[–] mememedbest 18 years ago

snowden's secret is that man is insignificant matter. that's why yossarian will not risk his life and refuses to fly.

[–] megabigblur 18 years ago

The bit where there's a funeral going on and the chaplain and Danby are going "Is that a naked man in a tree?" - that's Snowden's funeral.

[–] Focke_Wulf 17 years ago

Say, one more question about this scene: I rented a video of this movie to show my ever-cynical but bright teenager son that hip stuff was happening before his time. He enjoyed it and then enjoyed the book. However, the climactic moment when Snowden spills his guts was nipped from the edition we had. Is this common to versions any of you have seen, besides possibly cuts made for broadcast television?

I'm thinking I'd like to watch this movie one more time. Not to be morbid, I'd just like to find one that hasn't been sanitized. . .

[–] bullit2513 17 years ago

The DVD I have has a quick shot of Yossarian pulling at Snowden's jacket and his guts spilling out. It's really quick, but still pretty graphic. Hope this helps.

"Congratulations, Major. It appears that at last you have found yourself a real war." Ben Tyreen

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Focke_Wulf 17 years ago

Amen on shock value. It was a very brief glimpse, but in 1971 (when I first saw it) it gathered a collective gasp from the audience in the theater where I first viewed it. Santa Clara, California, as I recall. In a similar vein (ooh! bad choice of words!), see one of my posts on UN CHIEN ANDALOU, the old Luis Bunuel and Salvador Dali surrealist short.

There was so much going on in CATCH-22 on so many levels. It's not a perfect adaptation of the book by a long shot, but there was so much to work with their the problem would be deciding what you can reasonably include in a film. The movie remains one of my favorites. And cemented Alan Arkin in my mind as a most remarkable actor.

"I'm not from here, I just live here. . ."

-James Mc Murtry

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] lghroly 17 years ago

The aircraft used in the film were B-25 Mitchell bombers manufactured by North American Aviation; A distinctive feature of this aircraft was it's twin fin and rudder. On April 18, 1942, commanded by James H. Doolittle, 16 specially modified Mitchells took off from the aircraft carrier Hornet, 700 miles off the coast of Japan. This was one of the boldest and most spectacular bombing missions of the Pacific war and the first bombing raid on Tokyo. 11,000 of the twin-engined Mitchells were built between 1940 and 1945. It was our most successful medium bomber. The B-24 mentioned was a high-winged four engined, twin fin & rudder heavy bomber. Built by Consolidated Aircraft and known as the Liberator, 18,188 of these aircraft were built, more than any other American aircraft. As with the Mitchell, the Liberator was also very successful, but crews were known to prefer the Boeing B17 Flying Fortresses, as they were reputed to withstand more punishment.

[–] hslaw2222 17 years ago

you obviously appreciate Catch 22 as one of the great movies of all time. I think however, you have misued the word penultimate- don't you mean ultimate? Penultimate comes before, i. e. before the viewer realizes that snowden has been disembowled, and nothing happens before then, except Yoasssarian realizing that all the medical morphine has been misappropriated by the black marketeer Milo Mynderbinder.(sp?). Please don't take this the wrong way - we catch-22 people need to stick together. Great movie, great cast, great Mike Nickols. Absolutely and irrevocably at the top of my top ten.

[–] vfrance-1 17 years ago

Agreed...the really brilliant thing about Heller's dialogue for Catch-22 is the unbelievable *beep* of circular logic, to an absolutely maddening degree, with Yossarian being the only one who truly understands how maddening it truly is. The movie does not stand up to the book by any means, but that is to be expected as Catch-22 is one of the greatest American literary masterpieces. I think Mike Nichols did a good job and focused on the parts that translated best to a film. I was impressed by how the Snowdon storyline was handled, just like in the book, it is revealed slowly. It's obvious from the start that it affected Yossarian tremendously, but it's not until much later that you realize the true severity of what happened that day. Not just the horrific wound itself, but the fact that Yossarian thought he was helping Snowdon only to discover that he was utterly helpless, unable to even numb the kid's pain because of Milo stealing the morphine--really devastating on so many levels.

I highly recommed you read the book, it's incredible. That last scene with Snowdon is probably the one that affected me most when I read the book, and it would give you a better perspective next time you watched the film.

Cheers!

"I guess I started smoking when I was about...four."

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] kurt_student 17 years ago

So how did Yossarian get his leg injury (which gets him sent to hospital) in the scene where Aardvark and he fight in the nose of the B25 (where Snowden is nowhere to be seen), did that actually happen?

[–] rac701 17 years ago

Yes, Yossarian gets his minor leg wound on a different mission from the one on which Snowden spills his "secret."

[–] sean-maguire-1 16 years ago

Snowden is actually an amalgamation of Sweden and snow. Sweden is where Appleby (I think it was him) escapes to (i.e. freedom) and snow represents purity. So basically Snowdens death is the end of hope for Yossarian, at first he doesn't realise it but when he opens his flak jacket he realises the futility of the situation he's in.

[–] itputsthelotionontheskin 16 years ago

Just read the goddamn book it'll go ya good

Behold the one commandment!

God Needs Booze!

[–] ATK-2 16 years ago

I read the book a few times. Most of the "scenes" in the book were just as riveting, or more, than even in the film. In the film, Dobbs just disappears, so when I read about what happened to Dobbs and Nately, I was startled and my hair stood up. I could see it perfectly. And the vivid description of Snowden's wound was as powerful and graphic as in the movie. In both instances, it was horrible but, not at all unknown in reality.

Three of the novels from the 20th C. that I value the most today are, Catch-22, 1984 and On The Road. There's others I enjoy and think were great but, those 3 are my tops.

[–] itputsthelotionontheskin 16 years ago

Difficult to pick just three novels when it comes to it in my opinion. I'd probably say "Stranger in a Strange Land", "East of Eden", or "Catch-22", in the 20th century at least. Ever, probably "Les Miserables", "The Brothers Karamazov", and "Crime and Punishment". It's still difficult to decide though.

Behold the one commandment!

God Needs Booze!

[–] rac701 16 years ago

Here's Snowdon's "secret," straight from Joseph Heller's novel;

"Yossarian bent forward to peer and saw a strangely colored stain seeping through the coveralls just above the armhole of Snowden's flak suit. Yossarian felt his heart stop, then pound so violently he found it difficult to breathe. Snowden was wounded inside his flak suit. Yossarian ripped open the snaps of Snowden's flak suit and heard himself scream wildly as Snowden's insides slithered down to the floor in a soggy pile and just kept dripping out. A chunk of flak more than three inches big had shot into his other side just underneath the arm and blasted all the way through, drawing whole mottled quarts of Snowden along with it through the gigantic hole in his ribs it made as it blasted out...Here was God's plenty, all right, he thought bitterly as he stared -- liver, lungs, kidneys, ribs, stomach and bits of the stewed tomatoes Snowden had eaten that day for lunch...He turned back weakly to Snowden, whose breath had grown softer and more rapid, and whose face had grown paler. He wondered how in the world to begin to save him.
"I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold."
"There, there," Yossarian mumbled mechanically in a voice too low to be heard. "There there."
Yossarian was cold, too, and shivering uncontrollably. He felt goose pimples clacking all over him as he gazed down despondently at the grim secret Snowden had spilled all over the messy floor. It was easy to read the message in his entrails. Man was matter, that was Snowden's secret. Drop him out a window and he'll fall. Set fire to him and he'll burn. Bury him and he'll rot, like other kinds of garbage. The spirit gone, man is garbage. That was Snowden's secret. Ripeness was all."

[–] ATK-2 16 years ago

See what I mean? Pretty graphic. Great stuff.

If there is an Afterlife, it probably sounds like The Residents.

[–] ATK-2 16 years ago

It wasn't hard to pick three for myself. The others, such as you mentioned, are great too. But, the 3 that I mentioned were basically life-changing books for me, personally. These are Novels which hit hard and I still ponder them frequently. Most especially Orwell's 1984, whenever it applies to History and/or current Politics, etc. At the same time, the 3 books I mentioned here are actually Semi-Fiction which is probably why I find them so appealing.

If there is an Afterlife, it probably sounds like The Residents.