MovieChat Forums > Catch-22 (1970) Discussion > what was 'catch-22'????

what was 'catch-22'????

posted 17 years ago by banddirector23
10 replies | jump to latest

was it just some bs rule that they could say meant whatever they wanted it to mean?

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[–] bhsbrennan04 16 years ago

I'm not really sure what you are asking but maybe this will help you...

Yossarian: Is Orr crazy?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: Of course he is. He has to be crazy to keep flying after all his close calls he's had.
Yossarian: Why can't you ground him?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: I can, but first he has to ask me.
Yossarian: That's all he's gotta do to be grounded?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: That's all.
Yossarian: Then you can ground him?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: No. Then I cannot ground him.
Yossarian: Aah!
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: There's a CATCH?
Yossarian: A catch?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: Sure. Catch-22. Anyone who wants to get out of combat isn't really crazy, so I can't ground him.
Yossarian: Ok, let me see if I've got this straight. In order to be grounded, I've got to be crazy. And I must be crazy to keep flying. But if I ask to be grounded, that means I'm not crazy anymore, and I have to keep flying.
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: You got it, that's Catch-22.
Yossarian: Whoo... That's some catch, that Catch-22.
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: It's the best there is.

[–] banddirector23 16 years ago

i get that part, but at the end when hes in Rome, the old guy says it was "catch 22" that allowed the mps to raid the place, and what does that have to do with being crazy and getting grounded?

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[–] danjull2000 16 years ago

catch 22 has nothing to do with being crazy or getting grounded. just the circular logic used in the crazy/grounded reasoning is what catch 22 is about.

From wikipedia:
"Another Catch-22 is depicted in a scene with Luciana and Yossarian. Luciana is distraught because no man will marry her because she is not a virgin. Yossarian offers to marry her, but she claims he is crazy for wanting to marry a non-virgin like herself and says she can't marry him."

[–] banddirector23 16 years ago

cool, thanks now it makes sense

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[–] Ernie Pyle 16 years ago

FYI the novel was originally to be called Catch 18, but another book by a more well-known author was just being released, Mila 18 by Leon Uris. Joseph Heller and his publisher changed the 18 to 22, otherwise we'd be saying that an ironic situation is a Catch 18. In other words, it's a made up phrase that has stuck in today's language.

[–] Chrieon 16 years ago

Used as a Paradox: "Just because you're NOT insane doesn't mean you are NOT followed."

Simple form: "You can be sane but you are followed."

Twisted back: "One can be insane and followed at the same time but the odds is such low that one might be considered "just insane" but NOT followed."

do you follow?

"I refuse to become what you call normal" / Lemmy Caution, Alphaville

[–] vgamer231 16 years ago

While "catch-22" is used in the real world to describe a paradox, I always took it as actually just being a manifestation for the totality of military power.

[–] OceanRacoon 16 years ago

catch 22 was the theme of the whole book, Yoassarian always saw himself as being screwed no matter what he did. "Be thankful your alive" "Be furious your going to die". People that are innocent are always persecuted, and the people in power are *beep* yet there is nothing anyone can do about it. heller made up the saying though, so catch 22 itself is just a word and number, not an actual law or code

[–] eyeball2055-250-531978 10 years ago

I'm sorry... I'm lost... I've gone to find myself... if I should get back....before I return.... Please ask me to wait!

[–] willjohn 10 years ago

Never mind. Just because you are paranoid it does not mean they are not out to get you.
(Another version of catch 22).