I was wondering how fellow fans would rate this film compared to Argento's other films. I think it's his second best. in fact, i rate em like this.
Tenebre
Bird with the Crystal Plumage
Profondo Rosso
Suspiria
Trauma
Sleepless
Opera
Phenomena
Inferno
The Card Player
The Cat o Nine Tails
The Stendhal Syndrome
"All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy"
This was on VHS in the late 70's early eighties...and it stunk then! But, when the choice was limited to about 50 movies on VHS you watched anything. About 1981-1982 this was re-released to theatres with a different name, and different poster art. Ignorantly I paid the $4 admission to a very secretive film with no trailers...AHA! as soon as the opening scene started I remarked to my friend that this was that horrible Tony Musante movie were all the actors spoke their original language, and all the dialogue was dubbed in later. The sound was so bad in fact that I would surmise that no sound was recorded on the film and it was all dubbed and foleyed in at whichever country it was being shown in. I imagine that in Iran it was dubbed in with Farsi and the traffic noise in Rome was a foley of camels and donkey carts with the occasional Land Cruisers.
"Be careful of what you look for Taylor, you just might find it!"
you're correct in a way. In italy, the actors speak their dialogue, but it's all dubbed later in different languages for international release. But I gotta say the dubbing her is excellent compared to some films. Have you seen A Blade in the Dark?
I gotta ask, if you didn't like this film, are you a fan of any of Argento's flicks?
"My mom started collecting beanie-babies...about 4 years after she died." Deputy Trudy Weigel.
Hmm..I will admit to knowing the name but not much more....I will work on it.
Did he direct that badly dubbed "man on Fire" with Scott Glenn and Joe Pesci?
"Be careful of what you look for Taylor, you just might find it!"
I don't believe he did, but I admit i only really follow his horror flicks.
you should check out the website "Dark Dreams:The Films of Dario Argento"
"My mom started collecting beanie-babies...about 4 years after she died." Deputy Trudy Weigel.
I think I saw only three of his films and rate them like this.
1 Suspiria
2 Jenifer
3 this one
here's how i rate them, but be aware the ratings change daily because i love them all so much it's very hard to rate them
Tenebre
Suspiria
Bird with the Crystal Plumage
Deep Red
Phenomena
Opera
Sleepless
Trauma
Inferno
The Card Player
Cat O Nine Tails
The Stendhal Syndrome
"Bad luck isn't brought by broken mirrors, but by broken minds"- Suspiria
I sometimes feel like an outsider in the ARGENTO FAN CLUB (whatever that means). I love his movies, and recently I've been doing a lot of re-watching because I feel that his movies only improve with mass viewings. However, this being said, and said with all due respect to my fellow Dario-loving comrades, I can't understand for the life of me why Deep Red and Tenebrae ALWAYS show up on everyone's top two/three when listing favorites. I've watched and re-watched these, and as always, like them better with every viewing, but I'm sorry to say that they surely do not top my list. I have yet to see several, including Phenomena which I am DYING to find a region 1/WS uncut version of. I haven't seen The Stendhal Syndrome either, or Four Flies on Grey Velvet. I'll attempt to put the ones that I own in some sort of order. Here goes:
1. SUSPERIA: ABSOLUTELY/WITHOUT A DOUBT
2. OPERA: LOVE LOVE LOVE the idea of the needles in the eyes!
3. INFERNO: It's beautiful, visually.
4. SLEEPLESS: Hilarious, gory and suspensful.
5. DO YOU LIKE HITCHCOCK: many thought it was just a rip-off. HOMAGE!!
6. THE BIRD WITH THE CRYSTAL PLUMAGE: I'm re-watching tonight.
7. DEEP RED: Like the story
8. TENEBRAE: Love the gore, hate the acting
9. TRAUMA: Many disliked this one; I liked it.
10. CAT O NINE TAILS: re-watching (watched it on painkillers).
11. THE CARD PLAYER: A little silly, but I could still enjoy it.
Please explain what puts Tenebrae and Deep Red on the top of so many lists!! I'd appreciate the point of views! Also, does Jennifer suck as much as people are saying??
well, please remember that my opinion on Tenebre is EXTREMELY biased, because it was the first Argento film i had ever seen, so it has a special place in my heart. i will admit that it is no longer my favorite, Suspiria is, but Tenebre is a very close second.
The appeal, for me, is that this is one of Argento's most stylish films EVER! Growing up with american slasher flicks like Friday the 13th, I'm used to the "stab/slash and move on to the next" kind of film. But when was the last time you seen someone chased up stairs, slashed in the back and throat, and fall slow-motion through a plate of glass, or seen an entire chase and murder take place in 1st person? (besides Halloween of course) Every one of the murders in Tenebre are absolutely fantastic.
But the thing i love the most about Tenebre is the music. As always, Goblin outdid themselves. The main theme and the murder theme (Flashing) is WONDERFUL!
As for Deep Red, it's my fourth-favorite, and when i first watched it, I hated it! But it has grown on me. As you mentioned, the story is excellent, everything makes sense for the most part. And Argento deploys his ultimate trick with the revelation of the killer. you can almost hear him laughing at us!
And again, BEST MUSIC EVER! I mean the scores for Deep Red and Tenebre are very different, but each fit their respective movies perfectly.
do you agree with anything i said?
my dvd collection- http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?id=splattaflix
Absolutely (agreeing with what you said). I agree with everything you said. I LOVE when he collaborates with Goblin for the soundtracks. It's part of the whole Argento Experience! And I'll have to re-watch both of them because they DO get better with each viewing. Don't get me wrong though, I like all of them. I haven't seen Phantom of the Opera yet; everyone seems to hate that one. Have you seen it?
shareNope, haven't seen Phantom yet, but not because i don't want to. I can't find it anywhere (I'm not able to order things online)yeah, I've never heard anyone say that there was a worse Argento film than Phantom. I just can't wrap my mind around the idea that Argento made a BAD film!
I agree about goblin. In fact, i think that 9 out of every 10 films i love are the films that have excellent soundtracks. I think that's one of the best aspects of a good horror film, and boy, Goblin delivers every time!
To answer your question about Jenifer, it's perfectly average for an American horror film. But the problem is that you can't tell this is Argento. NONE of his style is present. The camera movements are flat, color pallete unispired, none of his signature violent murders, and a lackluster and straight-foward story. His worst film, but not too bad for a horror flick. The disc itself is AWESOME though, two interviews with argento, some behind the scenes stuff, and a featurette about the gore being the highlights.
my dvd collection- http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?id=splattaflix
Huh. I might have to pick up the Jennifer DVD just out of pure curiousity! I'm in the middle of Cat O Nine Tails now, and once again, enjoying it more the second time around. I've always thought that music makes a horror film. Think about some of the best; The Shining, The Exorcist, Halloween, Susperia; always a killer sound track to back it up and bounce it to life.
BTW, any ideas on why Four Flies on Grey Velvet is unavailable? Also, I'm absolutely dying to see Phenomenon. Is it really that great? I know it's being released in 07, but I don't know if I can wait that long!
Oh, here are some other horror films I think have amazing soundtracks, just for the fun of it:
Psycho
Dawn of the Dead (both Romero's and Argento's - by the way - how is Two Evil Eyes?)
Lost Highway (almost horror)
I also love John Carpenters composing. You can always tell when his pen was put to work on a film; like The Thing, Prince of Darkness, etc.
Huh. I might have to pick up the Jennifer DVD just out of pure curiousity! I'm in the middle of Cat O Nine Tails now, and once again, enjoying it more the second time around. I've always thought that music makes a horror film. Think about some of the best; The Shining, The Exorcist, Halloween, Susperia; always a killer sound track to back it up and bounce it to life.
BTW, any ideas on why Four Flies on Grey Velvet is unavailable? Also, I'm absolutely dying to see Phenomenon. Is it really that great? I know it's being released in 07, but I don't know if I can wait that long!
Oh, here are some other horror films I think have amazing soundtracks, just for the fun of it:
Psycho
Dawn of the Dead (both Romero's and Argento's - by the way - how is Two Evil Eyes?)
Lost Highway (almost horror)
I also love John Carpenters composing. You can always tell when his pen was put to work on a film; like The Thing, Prince of Darkness, etc.
There's some kind of rights dispute concerning Four Flies. Some company, i think Paramount, has the rights, but won't release them. Labels like Blue Underground and Shreik Show are trying to get them to give up the rights, but no takers. Just google "Four Flies Petition" and you'll find two or three petitions you can sign to get a dvd release.
I agree with what you said about the soundtracks, especially Psycho. Love it!
I've never seen Two Evil Eyes, so i can't help you there.
As for Phenomena, it's genuine Argento. You really must see it. I wouldn't say it's as good as Suspiria, Deep Red, Tenebre, or Bird, but it's on par with Opera. Both Phenomena and Opera have the same problem-poor writing. Phenomena's plot kind of wanders along, it takes two or three viewings before things start flowing smoothly. Also, there aren't that many murders, but the first murder in the film is GREAT.
My favorite thing about the film is again, the excellent music. Goblin gives us two or three scores, and some American bands,(i beleive Motorhead is one) have some songs in this film.
If you can't find the Anchor Bay version of Phenomena, at least try to find the Creepers version.Try cheap horror box sets like this http://www.suncoast.com/Movies/SearchResults.aspx
that set is readily available at your nearest best buy. Creepers is heavily edited but at least you'll get the gist of the movie.
my dvd collection- http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?id=splattaflix
Alright, man. You talked me into it. I'll go ahead and buy the Creepers DVD while I'm waiting!
What's that site with your dvd collection all about? (Very impressive, by the way!)
it's a site to help people with large dvd collections organize and keep track of all their dvds. it also helps me plan what other dvd's i want. it's really cool and easy to use, it took me 2 hrs. to add EVERYTHING. you really should sign up and try it, i'd like to see what other flicks your into.
my dvd collection- http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?id=splattaflix
You're right, man. The Goblin soundtrack is absolutely fantastic in Deep Red. I think my biggest problem with the movie is that after the first murder of the psychic, it slows down dramatically. It loses me a bit. But the movie is shot beautifully. I love the cinematography and of course the music. The death seens are pretty rad, too!
When you watch his movies, do you watch them in English or in Italian with English overdubs? Whenever I watch Japanese horror I always view it in Japanese. For some reason though, I always watch Argento in English. I'm giving Deep Red a chance in Italian at the moment. I must say, I'm enjoying it.
About the DVD site, I kind of made my own list to keep track of mine by just making a word document. I could copy my list of horror flicks and paste it onto one of these posts. (It's not as large as yours)!
Faves of mine:
Lynch, Kubrick, Burton and of course Argento. I don't think John Carpenter is any kind of genius, but I do admire his work; especially his sci fi side. I also love Tarantino and Rodriguez (Mexico Trilogy, From Dusk Till Dawn & Sin City are great). I love South Park to death, along with cheesey old 80's movies like "Liscense to Drive" and "Better Off Dead." I love slapstick and old sci fi (I love Metropolis) but don't have too much of an interest in Action movies. They're usually pretty mindless. Oh, and I love Vanilla Sky and it's original, Abre Los Ojos. Good stuff.
I agree completely about Deep Red.
I watch his movies with the english dub. I don't understand a lick of italian anyway, so I'd constantly be reading the subtitles, which would take away from Argento's parade of visuals on screen. Someday perhaps I'll try to watch Suspiria or Deep Red in italian, just to see what it's like.
my dvd collection- http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?id=splattaflix
Man, completely different view on Deep Red. I've really enjoyed it this time. Funny how movies get better the more you view them. I think I can appreciate it more this time because I started at the beginning with The Bird, then The Cat, and then Deep Red, and I can appreciate how he stepped it up a bit to prepare for Susperia.
shareSee, I was the same way. When i first watched it i really didn't like it at all, but it grows on you with each viewing.
Someday, when i have patience and time to waste, i should watch all his films i own in order. That'd be one great movie marathon eh?
my dvd collection- http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?id=splattaflix
That's what I'm working on. :)
I just finished Inferno. What do you think of that one? I think that visually, it is absolutely STELLAR. Musically though, it could have benefitted from a Goblin soundtrack. I didn't really understand the end, but hopefully the third movie in the mother trilogy will help a bit. Over all, I enjoyed it.
Oh, by the way, I took your advice and went ahead and ordered a copy of Creepers. I found one for $6.00 after shipping so I figured what the hell.
I'm thinking about ordering Phantom of the Opera as well. I've read so many horrible reviews by fans that my curiousity is killing me! It seems to be summed up by being an overly violent soft porn murder fest, and in my opinion, that sounds like a good time! I heard that it can be found in the $6 bin at Circuit City, but the one near me didn't have it.
Inferno to me is mixed. Not his best, but certainly not his worst. I love the colors, the awesome murders, and the music, even though a Goblin score would have been better.
Tell me what you think of Phantom when you see it. is it as bad as everyone says?
my dvd collection- http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?id=splattaflix
Ugh. Still waiting for Phantom and Creepers in the mail. I hope it doesn't take as long as "Halloween - 25 Years of Terror" took, which was almost a month!
BTW, have you seen Jenifer? I just bought it the other night and absolutely LOVED it. If you haven't seen it, you gotta go get it.
really? I hated Jenifer. his worst film, in my opinion. None of his style is present, can't even tell it's an Argento film. and the acting SUCKED! stick with Hitchcock, the much better new release of his.
my dvd collection- http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?id=splattaflix
I loved Hitchcock as well. Man, I dunno. ..I thought Jenifer had Argento all over it. Still looking forward to Creepers. I can't wait!
shareThe only shot of the entire film that felt like old Argento was the opening overhead shot. other than that, Jenifer could have been filmed by anybody.
My opinion on why this is- Argento didn't write it (at least, as far as i know) and since the story is so straightforward, maybe Argento didn't know how to go about it. I mean, Argento is known for his horror films, but he is first and foremost a mystery director. Even films like Suspiria and Inferno have mystery aspects to them (for ex. what does Secret Irises mean?) So Jenifer is kinda the black sheep of his films. I liked it, but it was just another average American horror piece, not the beauty that is Argento.
whew, pointless rant over.
my dvd collection- http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?id=splattaflix
BTW, splattaflix, not sure if I mentioned this on a post or not, but I honestly (and you know how much of an ARgento fan I am)couldn't even get through this movie. I tried. I will try again. But for now, this is certainly the only "bad" film of his. I agree with the others, I'm sorry to say. :(
shareWhat film, Bird with the Crystal Plumage? you didn't like it? wow, i think it's one of his best. Different strokes for different folks eh?
did you ever see creepers yet?
When there is no more room in Myspace, the geeks will walk the Earth!
No, sorry. Phantom of the Opera. I love Bird.
oh, i see. I've never seen, and i don't think i want to lol. I really wanna see Demons, have you seen that?
When there is no more room in Myspace, the geeks will walk the Earth!
Haven't seen Demons. I'm really curious though.
shareI see. man, ya notice how far off topic we've gotten with this thread lol?
When there is no more room in Myspace, the geeks will walk the Earth!
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The Bird with the Crystal Plumage (1970) - good ol' fashioned Hitchcockian suspense, mystery and guesswork fun to be had here
Deep Red (1975) - the archetypal giallo film and a benchmark work in the horror genre, with one of Goblin's best scores
Suspiria (1977) - an obvious, indisputable masterpiece, plus it stars the awesome Jessica Harper!
Inferno (1980) - one of his strongest, most sadly underrated films: visually incredible and it plays like a true nightmare unfolding onscreen
Tenebrae (1982) - some of my favourite Argento set pieces are in this one, especially the girl getting chased by the dog right into the killer's lair
Phenomena (1985) - stunningly imaginative, gory, mind-bending fun
Opera (1987) - the eye needles scene... and the slow-motion bullet in the eye through the keyhole... ouch!
The Stendhal Syndrome (1996) - Argento's most overlooked film since the start of the 90s, well worth checking out or giving a second chance
Jenifer and Pelts ("Masters of Horror" episodes) (2005/2006) - the most exciting, promising things Argento has directed in years!
if i had to recommend Argento films to someone who has never seen one,
i would obviously start with Suspiria, but Bird with the Crystal Plumage would probably be my second choice. i'd pick it over Deep Red basically because it's shorter. i think most people would generally agree with this. personally, i like Phenomena and Inferno a whole lot, way beter than Tenebra and Opera, both of which i think are somewhat overrated.
ps i really dislike the Stendhal Syndrome, but i very much enjoyed Jenifer.
if i had to recommend Argento films to someone who has never seen one,
i would obviously start with Suspiria, but Bird with the Crystal Plumage would probably be my second choice. i'd pick it over Deep Red basically because it's shorter. i think most people would generally agree with this. personally, i like Phenomena and Inferno a whole lot, way beter than Tenebra and Opera, both of which i think are somewhat overrated.
ps i really dislike the Stendhal Syndrome, but i very much enjoyed Jenifer.
So far, this is my order of Argento films from best to worst:
SUSPIRIA
DEEP RED
OPERA
THE BIRD WITH THE CRYSTAL PLUMAGE
INFERNO
PELTS
CAT O' NINE TAILS
CREEPERS (I saw a badly edited 82 minute version)
Suspiria
The Bird With the Crystal Plumage
Deep Red
Tenebrae
Phenomena
Cat O'Nine Tails
Four Flies on Grey Velvet
Opera
Jenifer (Masters of Horror)
The Black Cat (Two Evil Eyes)
Inferno
The Stendhal Syndrome
Trauma
The Tram
The Third Mother
(I find it pretty hard to decide between these next few; they were all very disappointing)
Sleepless
Do You Like Hitchcock?
The Card Player
Phantom of the Opera
Pelts (Masters of Horror)
Giallo
(Still yet to see:
The Eyewitness, The Five Days of Milan, Dracula 3D)
I really don't get all the hype about Opera. To me it was an artistic suicide. The acting was awful and the english dubbing sounded botched. The script was full of holes and the power metal soundtrack ruined all the fun I could have had watching the murders. And the ending, oh God... Definitely overated.
I didn't see all of Argento's movies, but I'd rate the ones I saw like this:
1. Deep Red
2. The Bird with the Crystal Plumage
3. Stendhal Syndrome
4. Two Evil Eyes
5. Tenebre
6. Suspiria
7. Opera
Pretty unusual scale if I compare it with the ones I saw here and there on IMDB, but I guess I'm pretty critical when I watch a movie, and in my opinion Suspiria and Tenebre weren't all THAT great, even though they both had their good moments.
Tenebre
The Bird with the Crystal Plumage
Suspiria
Deep Red
Trauma
Inferno
Masters of Horror: Jenifer
Masters of Horror: Pelts
The Stendhal Syndrome
Phenomena
The Cat o' Nine Tails
Opera
The Phantom of the Opera (I hated this)
The Card Player (Same as above)
I have seen Sleepless, but it's been like 8-years and honestly I don't remember much so no comment.
I tried doing that once, making every minute count. It gave me a headache- Adrian Monk
10/10 (flawless Argento movies, in my eyes):
SUSPIRIA
DEEP RED
OPERA
THE BIRD WITH THE CRYSTAL PLUMAGE
9/10 (nearly flawless Argento movies):
TENEBRE
PHENOMENA
TRAUMA
INFERNO
SLEEPLESS
8/10 (good Argento movies, very entertaining, but missing something here and there):
THE STENDHAL SYNDROME
PELTS
JENIFER
TWO EVIL EYES
THE CAT O' NINE TAILS
6/10 (terrible, yet there's a lot I enjoyed at the same time. guilty pleasure):
PHANTOM OF THE OPERA
As someone said already, this often changes order because I love all his films
I have yet to see FOUR FLIES ON GREY VELVET, THE CARD PLAYER, and DO YOU LIKE HITCHCOCK.
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Considering this is my first Dario Argento picture, I can only rate Bird with the Crystal Plumage. I'd give it a solid 7/10. I thought the ending was pretty out there, and not in the good kind of way. Won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it, but the killer's backstory was a big let-down; although a good choice, they could have given a better explanation for why he/she/they (to confuse anyone who thinks I'm giving the gender away!)did what they did. Did anyone else have a problem with that?
shareDeep Red
Bird with the Crystal Plumage
Suspiria
Phenomena
Tenebre
Top 5 - but I haven't seen all of them.
I rated it a 5. The acting was pretty bad, some of the situations were ludicrous, and the ending was a mess. I also saw the twist coming right from the start, but it wasn't nearly as clever as the twist revealed very early on in Deep Red. So while this movie may be important as Argento's entry into his Giallo career, I didn't really like it as much as most of his others.
shareI think this is one of Argento's best movies. For one thing Vittorio Storaro, a living legend of cinema, worked in the cinematography, which contributed to making the movie visually amazing!
Then I also think that in terms of plot, characterisation and acting it's the best ballanced of Argento's movies. In this movie I think he still cared about the story making sense and creating rounded characters.
Also it has some fine touches - the way the bird of the title is used in the story to reveal the killer is one of those moments when the art of thriller reaches excellence.
I give it 8/10
This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel.
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Suspiria
Opera
Tenebre
Profondo Rosso
Phenomena
Stendhal Syndrome
Bird with the Crystal Plumage
Do you Like Hitchcock
Sleepless
Cat o Nine Tales
Two Evil Eyes
Pelts
Card Player
Inferno
Trauma
Four Flies on Grey Velvet
Jennifer
Phantom of the Opera
Mother of Tears
Giallo
I haven't seen Dracula 3D yet or 5 Days of Milan