I've spent a lot of time on here discussing this very issue. I haven't had a lot of argument, thankfully, as I've never found anyone who insists there's a more "right" way to watch this movie. I just know that, having seen it both ways the English language version is a lot more satisfying for me and others I've exposed this movie to. As for the translation, I don't think anyone goes to Satyricon for the subtle word play necessarily, or the stirring emotional drama of the script! It's visual feast and the dialog is often more distracting to a new viewer than helpful--it gives people a headache! In the dubbed version you get to hear Peter Woodthorpe (as Trimalcione) who played a wonderful Gollum in Bakshi's "Lord Of The Rings" and the BBC radio version, and the brilliant Michael Hordern (as Eumolpo) who was "Marley" in the '51 "Christmas Carol" and Gandalf in the BBC "LOTR." Hardly hacks, in my opinion--they put a lot of care into the dubbed track (a lot of the background chatter of which isn't translated in the subtitled version either--Fellini wanted to represent "dead" languages no one could understand)
Plus, it's already been covered a lot in other threads--Fellini's way was to hire people based on their faces. He'd have them speaking their native language or even saying nonsense words, it didn't matter to him, knowing it would all be dubbed later.
I even risk the rath of fans and suggest that "8 and 1/2" and "Juliet Of The Spirits" are far more satisfying in English too. I don't like dubbing in general but in certain cases, like these, I FAR prefer it. Just fyi, yer NOT alone!
Sometimes it's not enough merely to teach. One has to punish as well.
reply
share
andros12
19 years ago
I think that the "translated" vulgarity of Encolpio's and Eumolpo's speeches cheapens the expression of their emotions which are to each man obviously not only "emotionally dramatic" but also heartfelt and sincere.
In addition, having one's hand or head cut off, being assassinated or committing murder would also probably be classified by most people as "emotionally dramatic" occurrences, one would suspect.
During the mist-like scene wherein Eumolpo bequeaths his "legacy of natural beauty" to Encolpio; the crude added expression sours the remaining dialogue.
Much of the original humour in this film appears to be a kind of understated black humour such as presented in the "Matron of Ephesus" scene or Trifena's delicately phrased "wedding at sea" sacrificial ceremony.
While acknowledging Fellini's attempt to create a Jungarian dream-like atmosphere through the displacement of language and scenery; it seems to work better for me in the subtitled versions. Perhaps, if Eumolpo would slow down a touch and omit some of the unnecessary words, he may possibly be recognized as being more "soulful" in his expression than Trimalcione. As it is, much of the translation appears like something overheard from a multitude of sources during a busy Saturday evening at ye good olde bar and grill.
reply
share
OsbourneRuddock
19 years ago
Being Italian is part of Felllini's identity as a director, and so I think you lose something by listening to a non-italian dubbing. Even if the Italian is also dubbed, and even if you cannot understand what is being spoken I think the Italian language gives it part of it's flavour, and so you lose something with cheesy english dubbing.
On the other hand, not looking at subtitles allows you to fully take in the georgous visuals in this extraodinary film. So mabey it's worth it.
reply
share
andros12
19 years ago
"...the Italian language gives it part of it's flavour, and so you lose something with the cheesy english dubbing..."
",,,not looking at subtitles allows you to fully take in the gorgeous visuals in this extraordinary film..."
I totally agree with you on both points.
What is needed is a more dignified dub.
reply
share