MovieChat Forums > Fellini - Satyricon (1970) Discussion > Question about the later Caesar

Question about the later Caesar

posted 17 years ago by bigbun1000
4 replies | jump to latest

I know the continuity of this film is not straight forward and wasn't intended to be...but I have a question about two of the scenes.

After the army gets rid of the younger Caesar (the scene where he kills himself and they hoist him onto their spears, yelling "Death to the tyrant!!"), Fellini shows us a montage sequence of what appears to be a returning Roman army, victorius in some sort of conquest. Right at the end of the montage sequence we see a young man without a helmet and what looks like a simplistic gold crown. He has a falcon to his right and a Roman soldier to his left. (It looks to me like they're on the back of an elephant, judging by the height and lack of horizon point in the background.) His eyes seem to be nervously darting back and forth...and we only really see him for about 5 seconds...and then a giant standard with the image of a Caesar floats by....

The Caesar depicted on the standard looks a lot like the young man we saw seconds before...and then when the scene cuts to the "suicide sequence" on the grounds of an estate, the man committing suicide looks like a slightly older, bearded version of both the Caesar on the standard and the young man with the falcon and the crown.

So...are all three the same man?

At first I took it as a depiction of the NEW Caesar, one backed by the military, overthrowing the boy-emperor...the montage sequence represents the take over. And we see his initial image as a young man, then immeditly as an honored leader (the standard) and then in a slightly older state, just before committing suicide.

Maybe I'm wrong, though, because I've also read that Fellini has stated that the man that commits suicide is supposed to be Petronius, the author of the original story.

any help?

[–] andros12 17 years ago

I think you're correct about the young man with the falcon and the standard image as being that of an identical person. Both are wearing a similar tiara/crown and the eyes of the young man turn dramatically from the right to the left repeatedly and also appear on the standard image as looking to the side.

The first image we have of the suicide man is that of his eyes looking directly into the camera. There is a definite facial resemblance however this man appears much older and his eyes are deep set and not quite as clearly defined. It seems that Fellini did on occasion insert similar faces in different scenes however it seems individual character frequently played a major part in combination with the physical image in Fellini's decisions. I'm not sure how effective make-up would have been in effecting such a transformation in this particular instance.

In any case, the presentation of the character is entirely different; the suicide man is more serene, he not shown in a military setting as it seems almost sure that a Caesar would be, his children are fleeing for their lives and he is going down without a fight, no doubt a far cry from the warrior character of the earlier depicted Caesar.

[–] bigbun1000 17 years ago

Andros-

First, thanks very much for the reply.

In regards to the suicide sequence...

Yes, I think you're right...the "suicide man" seems much older...and more serene. I had sort of assumed we were seeing the Caesar later on in life...like maybe it was a depiction of the cyclical nature of the death and replacement of an emperor...and how one's mood or outlook might change after having ruled over an empire. I took it to be a quick-jump from the Caesar's military beginnings to his inevitable end. As for the lack of military ephemera, I figured this was Caesar in his summer home...but I guess there would be armed guards everywhere, summer home or not.

"In any case, the presentation of the character is entirely different; the suicide man is more serene, he not shown in a military setting as it seems almost sure that a Caesar would be, his children are fleeing for their lives and he is going down without a fight, no doubt a far cry from the warrior character of the earlier depicted Caesar. "

Yeah, that aspect made me think twice...now I'm guessing that what we're seeing is a Roman noble doing himself in so that whatever is coming doesn't get him first. (I'm guessing new laws and decrees and political agendas that would have meant his death or imprisonment.)

Odd though, that all three facial images look similar.

This was also my first Fellini film, so I'm not too familiar with the director's stylistic traits yet. (loved it, though!)

Thanks again for the info!

[–] andros12 17 years ago

...now I'm guessing that what we're seeing is a Roman noble doing himself in so that whatever is coming doesn't get him first..."

The book Fellini's Satyricon-c1970, edited by Dario Zanelli, features the film's screenplay in addition to notes on the "proposed" initial "treatment" and other commentaries. Within the treatment section this scene is described as follows..."From a few words the slaves exchange, we learn that the new Emperor has condemned the owners of the villa to exile, and that the villa itself is to be confiscated." "The master and mistress of the house, parents of the children, are praying before their household gods..."

One of the interesting aspects of Fellini's interpretations is that he frequently doesn't necessarily provide a noticeable impetus toward what might be regarded as a gradual improvement or change in personality for many of his characters. He often appears to have simply looked at the face and/or manner as to how well it fit his desired portrait and then emphasized the desired qualities. In essence, people are what they appear to be, regardless of their social position, for better or worse. In the case of at least some of the seemingly politically and socially prominent characters in this film, they are often represented as somewhat physically deformed (possibly as a result of generations of socially "acceptable" inbreeding) and/or as hideous cutthroats or predatory madmen.*

For example, in regard to the discussion at hand, i.e. the "suicide villa" scenario, the revolving gaze of the politically motivated new Caesar is in sharp contrast to the more direct gaze and associated humanitarian manner of the suicide man.

________________________

*One exception to this case earlier in the film is that of the lady in the cave mourning the death of her husband who is subsequently greeted by the handsome soldier after he deserts his guard post. Her face is a chalk white colour, apparently representative of a deathly hue. After the soldier kisses her and she accepts his gift of "love," her face returns to a fully coloured, radiantly healthy hue.

[–] andros12 13 years ago

Years later and tonight I'm watching this scene again on a bigger flat screen television in slow motion and there appear to be some letters on the side of the moving military calvacade which appear to spell "Quadratus Vocula."

Apparently, this may refer to a Gaius Dillius Vocula (70AD) a Roman army commander, one of Rome's heroes during the Batavian revolt who was eventually murdered..

If true then yes, they're probably almost certainly not meant to represent the same man.