I think it's neat that about 10 years after the release of a film about Pope Kiril, an unlikely candidate from a Soviet controlled country, Pope Karol (John Paul II) was elected, also from a Soviet controlled country. Moreover, Pope John Paul II was a close personal friend of Anthony Quinn.
My thanks to Denny Crane! Found this site by accident whilst intending to look up details of Morris West's book 'The Shoes of the Fisherman' which I had read years ago, to confirm that I hadn't imagined it. During the recent celebrations of the life of Pope John Paul II I mentioned to my sister that I had read this novel which was a fictional story of a 'Russian' Pope with the same (or similar) name to that of the late John Paul II. (OK - so I was one or two letters out!) She did not believe me. I remember when John Paul II was elected but do not recollect any reference to the book at the time nor when the film was released. Is this possible? Now I have to try to find the film! Thanks again Denny.
share"I remember when John Paul II was elected but do not recollect any reference to the book at the time nor when the film was released. Is this possible?"
I think it is possible. I believe people were more interested in the fact that John Paul I had died so suddenly and were not, for that matter, entirely over the death of Paul VI. If anything, the shock of the untimely demise of John Paul I overshadowed any discussion of the cultural significance of John Paul II's election, although it was certainly a headline story that a non-Italian had been elected.
It is years since I saw "Shoes" which I thoroughly enjoyed. While Soviet Russia is now past history[due, said Gorbachev in "la stampa" journal, to John Paul 2 to a significant degree] nonetheless Vatican-Russian Orthodox relationships are very 'on-off' affairs at present even though Putin would welcome the pope to Moscow-but russian patriarch Alexy of Moscow is not interested! except under stringent conditions.
China-Vatican relationships are very 'tippy toey' resting on attitudes to Taiwan and other diplomatic variables. At the time of "Shoes" it was 'stand off' all around I do suspect huge steps under present Pope Benedict. His quieter demeanour would seem less threatening to the Chinese than the dramatically charismatic John Paul the great whom the Chinese understandably saw as very wiley--thus jp2s on/off visit to Manchuria
Sorry my memory of "Shoes" is weak I am recovering from a paralysing stroke.
Interestingly I saw author Morris West in a Sydney bookshop but did not plough him with questions--which I now regret. I was priest/chaplain to some Christian Brothers who knew him well when he himself was a Christian Brother and spoke highly of him--may he rest in peace!
The events in the film are more plausible from the hindsight of new year's day today 2006. than in volatile 1968 or in the book, years earlier[as a 14 year old minor seminarian the story line sounded fantastic and 'over the top'--The iron and bamboo curtains then seemed immovable. Stalin once asked contemptuously of pope pius xii"but how many battalions has the pope???"--uncle Joe must have turned in his mausoleum,methinks. at later convulsive events as the Berlin wall came crashing down
Visiting heads of state to the Vatican never ask for military statistics [as Jesus once said 'I have legions of angels in heaven!!!!'']
Yours Sincerely,
Father John George,
St John Vianney Villa,
70 Market St.
Randwick North. NSW
AUSTRALIA
[02]93981117
I hope your recovery is complete or at least satisfactory, p. John-George.
(Not that it matters one bit, but I am, unfortunately, familiar with that particular condition. It happened to someone very close and dear to me. That's why I also know "miracles" can happen. :-))
As to the film... I find it very good. But it's the eery, almost incredible, resemblance with real life what struck me the most. The author (of the book) was either deeply knowledgeable about his subject (much more so than anyone, really, except perhaps the various "intelligence" services of the world) - or a prophet.
I lean towards the first of these two explanations. -:)
most grateful for your kind thoughts
yes Mr west the author was a knowledgeable fellow indeed and as a 14 y o when i came across his book considered it fantastic hypothesis that things would happen as it did of course living in Rome he would have had his finger on the political pulse among those who lived and studied at the collegium russicum-a training ground for future looking missionaries and infiltrators into soviet Russia-the Vatican foreign service and its incredible diplomatic intelligence could have considered his notions as just one among many and what to do IF!
eg imagine the ant bed of intelligence that went on between Vatican and solidarnosz before the fall of soviets so only and merely perhaps he came to the theme via loose talk around the Vatican and Collegium Russicum-where workable hypotheses are the fare of the day-interesting Malcolm Muggeridge a later author and BBC journo and rc convert was a key man in WW2 British espionage-authors do have this penchant for political intrigue.
forgive my typos-part of stroke prob!
Father John George,
70 Market St.
Randwick North. NSW
AUSTRALIA
Still one of my favorite Roman Christian themed movies so much so I bought the 3 dvd package just so I could have it. I am old enough to have seen it on the big screen. Of course Mel made a masterpiece, but I will stay up at three in the moring to watch The Robe. I have a first addition of that book published in 1944, not a good year.
Now as far as the Late Pope John Paul II, the historians will be looking at and writing about him and his Pontificate for the next two or three hundred years. Never mind what he wrote, it will not be going out of print anytime soon. Shoes of the Fisherman is just a plan good movie and well Anthony Quinn well what can you say of Zorba?
[deleted]
What a example of premonition:
Carol (Woltya) is polish for Cyril and Ukraine was Polish in the 17th-19th centuries!
There is more:
Anthony Quinn was a close friend of pope Jean Paul II.
Mmmhhh... it must be a work of the Holy Spirit. ;o)
shareHere's a similar interesting coincidence.
Has anyone read the novel The Third Secret, by Steve Berry? The setting is in the Vatican, late in the current decade. The Pope (the fictional Clement XV) is supposed to be an elderly German, the successor to John Paul II, and was elected to be a "caretaker Pope".
The most fascinating thing about it is that the novel was released (in hardcover) in early 2005 before John Paul II had passed away and Benedict XVI (an elderly German Cardinal) was chosen as successor.
Sometimes wonder if a writers temperament could include a heightened para-psychological gift of premonition-a natural intuition of future events-spooky who knows-i did some study of paralogical phenomena at ateneo de manila uni in Philippines[everything from psychokinesis to levitation-though not personally involved in research i had opportunity to discuss such issues with the Jesuit experimental psychologist-such extrasensory phenomena is not unusual
in an asian country
Father John George,
70 Market St.
Randwick North. NSW
AUSTRALIA
Father John--you'll be delighted to know that SOTF has just come out on dvd here in Australia (on special for $9.95, as part of a Mothers Day promotion)--I bought it the day it came out and had it thundering through my home theatre.
I hope either yourself or one of your colleagues can pick up a copy at your local JB HiFi or K Mart (or whatever) -- it has never looked this great (probably one of the most colorful movies I have ever seen) and it uses the original poster art on the cover (very 1968, meaning very good) and Alex North's great score (including overture and exit music) never sounding better.
thanks brmac-you have persuaded me-thanks for the tip-the priest who had the brain tumor was supposedly teilhard de chardin clone-chardin was always in trouble with rome for his radical views on science and theol-he is associated with the piltdown hoax and the Peking man-though not necessarily the culprit
he died on Easter Sunday 1955-i am presently attacking his stuff on a catholic db-me being a stick in the mud conservative[though i suspect the chardinian nuances were lost on average audiences-chardin had enormous influence on new age movement-which i abhor
being a strokey i clean forgot mothers day-hope she forgives me!! but again thanks greatly for the tip-i bought a good db "Elizabeth'-enjoyed it in its history a la silver screen
Father John George,
70 Market St.
Randwick North. NSW
AUSTRALIA
It had nothing to do with a premonition or with Karol Wojtyla
At the time the movie came out, it was well known that the character of Kiril was based on Albino Luciani.
Albino Luciani --- the future John Paul I, who only reigned for one month ?
How well-known was Luciani in the early 1960s, when the book first came out ?
Wojtyla, at least, had written poetry and a few plays by the 1950s, and had had a hand in the development of Vatican II.
How did the character of Kiril ever develop from the former Italian Cardinal Luciani (besides the fact that they were both good, humble, spiritual men) ?
It seems unlikely, but it would be interesting to hear any insights you may have on this.
"A bride without a head !"
"A wolf without a foot !"
Are you kidding? Albino Luciani was very well known.
Plus, he had already sold off treasures of the church to help the poor.
When Wojtyla became pope, did he sell the wealth of the church? No, of course not.
That is how we know it was about Luciani, and not Wojtyla, duh.
"I don't love pink. Pink loves me."
Plus, he had already sold off treasures of the church to help the poor.
When Wojtyla became pope, did he sell the wealth of the church? No, of course not.
I didn't say he did it when he was pope. It was news. I'm sorry you missed it. And who said anything about soviet domination? Do you know what fiction means?
"I don't love pink. Pink loves me."
"I remember when John Paul II was elected but do not recollect any reference to the book at the time nor when the film was released. Is this possible?"
Well the same thing happened with OBAMA no one said anything about the two Palmer Bros who were president(s) on "24" who were black or a much earlier film
THE MAN 1972 where James Earl Jones became president by Default
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