One of the best shows ever.
This is one of the best shows ever
shareIt is, along with "24", THE BEST show ever!
Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!
I also want to add that I partially agree with ringfire on his statement that the original 5-0 is the greatest show of all-time. As I have been to the islands of Hawaii 6 times I would concur - the show in many episodes as filmed captured the spectacular beauty of our 50th state.
I do have "24" amongst my top shows "ringfire", however not at #2.
My list in order:
1). Hawaii 5-0 the original, (or at least through most of Season #9)
2). Perry Mason the original tv edition starring Raymond Burr: 1957-1966
3). Law & Order the original (not L & O Criminal Intent or L & O SVU editions)
4). 24 (Seasons 1 - 5 - high quality) Season 6 left much to be desired, Season 7 excellent, Seasons 8 & 9 putrid.
24 (Seasons 1 - 5 - high quality)
Agreed, Jeffman! 24 seasons 1-5 were 24-karat gold (if you'll pardon the pun) as far as I'm concerned. To me those seasons were the equivalent of FIVE-0 seasons 1-6 when it comes to quality, representative of the shows firing on all cylinders and being at their very best! After season 5 I still thought 24 was very good (as you mentioned, season 7 was excellent!) but it just wasn't as consistently great as it was during those first 5 seasons. Those early seasons were truly groundbreaking. Nowadays almost all shows are heavily serialized (not always a positive thing) but when 24 first came out this was a very new thing. Most shows were still mostly episodic. 24 ushered in a new era of television! But as is true with every show, after a few seasons repetition quickly sets in and you can only repeat the same scenario so many times before the show loses steam.
But I always say that even "bad 24" is still better than anything else playing on the telly. If just for the brilliant acting and Sean Callery's splendid music. I'd rather watch seasons 6, 8, and 9 than whatever else is currently showing.
Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes! share
Ringfire,
I used to think that Sherry Palmer was perhaps the most deceitful, conniving, duplicitious, and vengeful characters in television history. That woman could look anyone straight in the eye, smile sweetly and lie her head off. I always thought that Penny Johnson Gerald was brilliant through her acting ability in portraying this extremely evil woman.
I also thought watching Season 3 when it aired that Sherry Palmer's role in murdering that opposing rival of her ex-husband, (and at the time POTUS) David Palmer was outrageous. She watched him die due to a heart attack while insisting that the man's wife not administer his medication. I could only think at the time what if this was real? Could one imagine the former wife of a sitting U.S. President being responsible for the death of another human being? It was also I believe quite appropriate when the murdered man's widow in the final episode shot Sherry Palmer dead before turning the gun on herself. A real-life scandal such as the events that occurred that day involving Sherry Palmer would have made the Monica Lewinsky/William Jefferson Clinton affair as well as Richard Nixon's involvement with Watergate out to be boy scout level hi-jinks.
I now look at Season 3 as my favorite of "24" followed by Season 5. Jack finally gets revenge for his wife Terri's Season 1 murder by killing Nina Meyers in that climatic scene ending one episode. "No Nina, I believe you have no more useful information to give me", seconds before Jack put several bullets straight into her chest. Hey, Nina was about to do the same thing to Jack if she could have fired her weapon first. In addition, Jack also saved the life of his daughter Kim, who in an encounter just before that scene was close to getting herself killed by Nina.
Later Jack was then forced to kill the Homeland high ranking official Ryan Chappelle several hours later on orders from President Palmer in the hopes of preventing a terrorist attack on the U.S. On and on, that Season I felt was truly landmark television back when it aired. And it was the perfect ending with Jack seen having an emotional meltdown inside his SUV as the incredible 24 hours of that season had come to a close.
One final thing. Did you hear that last year, the actress who played the young child who Kim Bauer acted as an au-pair during Season 2, died of a drug overdose in real life? The actresses' name was Skye McCole Bartusiak. She played Meghan the physically abused daughter of that creep who also managed to murder his wife. Ms. Bartusiak was 21/22 years old when she died last year, (2014). I only found out late last year when some website listed the names of actors/actresses who had died during the year. When I saw her photo that accompanied the news of her passing I was floored. Such a terrible tragedy. Here is the link to her IMDB bio:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0566084/?ref_=tt_cl_t9
I used to think that Sherry Palmer was perhaps the most deceitful, conniving, duplicitious, and vengeful characters in television history. That woman could look anyone straight in the eye, smile sweetly and lie her head off. I always thought that Penny Johnson Gerald was brilliant through her acting ability in portraying this extremely evil woman.
Absolutely! I used to get goosebumps watching Sherry spin her web. Brrrr!! What a character!! Even her extremely intelligent and astute husband David Palmer kept falling under her spell time and time again (one would have thought he would have known better by now - especially by season 3). Penny Johnson Jerald indeed was brilliant and she should have won the Emmy 3 straight times in a row (seasons 1-3) but the shocking thing is that she was never even nominated! How is that possible??!!
Next to Sherry Palmer, Charles Logan was the other despicable villain (superbly and magnetically played by Gregory Itzin) that you just loved to hate. The way Itzin was able to add various layers and nuances to that character truly was a lesson in what great acting really is. Unlike Sherry, Logan was a coward at heart but when cornered (like a wild animal) he could be capable of some pretty despicable and reprehensible things. He's a huge reason why seasons 4 and 5 are so high on my list. Heck, he even made the second half of season 8 great!
I now look at Season 3 as my favorite of "24" followed by Season 5.
Season 3 is indeed a great season but out of the first 5 seasons it's actually my least favorite. I think seasons 1 and 2 have a great flow (season 2 picks up where season 1 left off) and the same is true for seasons 4 and 5 (the season 4 story continues in season 5). Season 3 is more of a standalone season - they don't even explain what happened with the conspirators from the end of season 2 or how David Palmer survived his hand poisoning at the end of that season. There is of course some continuity with the return of Sherry and Nina but overall it didn't feel as connected to the previous seasons. The other issue for me was the first half of the season tended to drag in spots (especially with the Kyle Singer storyline) and then during the second half of the season when Stephen Saunders is revealed as the main villain (who was brilliant by the way!) they almost completely dismiss what happened during the first half with the Salazar brothers and Jack's cocaine addiction. It's like 2 different stories in one season. The first half is about a Mexican drug cartel (which could have been a story for a whole season) and the second half is about a former disgruntled British agent seeking revenge (like the plot of the Bond movie GOLDENEYE) which again could have been a story for an entire season. To me it felt inconsistent - the 2 stories felt like they didn't even belong in the same season. That said, I really do love that second half and feel it's some of the best 24 ever but it's just jarring when you stop and think about what happened earlier in the season. Still, the season did give us some iconic moments! That's for sure!!
The more I think about it the more convinced I am that I actually prefer season 7 to season 3. I loved the change of location from LA to DC and episodes 1-18 were just non-stop suspense, with Jon Voight playing a fantastic baddie Jonas Hodges!! It's after episode 18 (when Tony is revealed as a villain) that the show loses its momentum. I've warmed up to Tony going bad but initially I had a difficult time accepting it. Or even him being alive to begin with!
One final thing. Did you hear that last year, the actress who played the young child who Kim Bauer acted as an au-pair during Season 2, died of a drug overdose in real life? The actresses' name was Skye McCole Bartusiak.
Yes, I do recall reading about it around the time she passed away. She was such a cute little girl when she was little. I remember her as Mel Gibson's daughter in the Revolutionary War film THE PATRIOT (2000) and as Michael Douglas' kidnapped daughter in DON'T SAY A WORD (2001). It was the following year in 2002 that she started playing Megan Matheson in the 2nd season of 24. Such a shame what happened to her. These sweet little kids grow up and get into drugs and other deadly habits.
Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes! share
ringfire,
Very astute observations that you made about Charles Logan. A coward at heart - he had real difficulties handling his duties as President in Season 4 when the seating President suffered catastrophic injuries when Air Force 1 got shot down. And very true when backed into a corner, he lashed out.
I should have added in my original thread that during Season 5 when it was revealed in that late night phone call that Logan was part of the terrorist plot all along that it was unbelievably shocking. It came completely out of left field. Remembering it the first time that I saw the episode I was literally flabbergasted because I did not see it coming. I wished that in the final episode of Season 8 that Jack had successfully assassinated Logan. But like a cockroach that you just cannot exterminate the b--tard Logan apparently survived taking a bullet to his head coming from Jack's gun. Brain dead, but not physically and irrefutably dead!
There were always some plot lines revolving characters that I felt never were adequately resolved:
1). Did Wayne Palmer survive his assassination attempt which took place during Season 6? He was the victim of that bomb blast and was hospitalized. His condition went from critical to life threatening but from there it never was addressed at least to my recollection in later seasons.
2). The same went for Martha Logan. In that same Season 6 briefly re-united with her ex-husband Logan, (and by then dating Aaron Pierce) she tried to kill him by stabbing him with a kitchen knife. She was hauled off to who knows where by Secret Service, one would assume for attempted murder against a former POTUS. There was only a brief mention of her in Season 7 when Olivia Taylor, (Sprague Grayden) had a conversation with Aaron Pierce right after her life had been saved by Jack, Aaron, Bill, (the former CTU head) who gave up his life an etc.. Olivia told Aaron that she was so sorry as to what happened to Martha. But it never was specifically stated as to WHAT happened to Martha. Was she in prison, in a psych ward or possibly dead?
3). What did happen to the POTUS during Season 4 who throughout the entire day's events was aboard Air Force 1 on some transcontinental flight? We know that his son ended up being killed when AF1 was shot down, but what about the President himself? Did he survive his injuries? It was never addressed any further past Season 4. Put together imo it equaled bad script writing on the part of writers who composed the episode themes in "24" for not having done a better job to adequately resolve some of those characters' situations and if they did/did not survive.
I always thought that the perfect ending to "24" would have been that first hour of Season 8. Jack living in NYC is all set to move back to LA, live with his daughter and grandchild and officially retire from his "job". Of course Season 7 ended with Jack practically dead due to his being exposed to radiation poisoning in yet another terrorist threat that he defused. Jack had made it clear that he did not want Kim to put herself in possibly jeopardy by giving him a blood transfusion. But with Jack close to a comatose state in the final moments of Season 7, it was no longer his choice regarding Kim. She obviously ended up saving her father's life as indicated at the beginning of Season 8.
So, instead of listening to Chloe who begged Jack to intervene yet again in some international crisis, he instead chooses not to do so. Instead Jack boards a flight back out to SoCal with Kim and to live his life out in much needed peace and quiet.
I figure that with that alternative series ending Rene Walker would not have been murdered, shot by the Russians right after having sex with Jack in Season 8.
And since Jack would have retired, Audrey Raines would not have ended up being killed either in that Season 9 series finale. As was always the case with Jack, women that he always wanted to have a close romantic relationship with, (including his wife Terry) all ended up dead due primarily to the fact that much to their misfortune they all ended up being too close to him.
I should have added in my original thread that during Season 5 when it was revealed in that late night phone call that Logan was part of the terrorist plot all along that it was unbelievably shocking. It came completely out of left field. Remembering it the first time that I saw the episode I was literally flabbergasted because I did not see it coming.
You and me both! Totally out of left field. It was obviously not going to be VP Hal Gardner (Ray Wise) because he was the very obvious red herring thrown in by the writers to try and fool us (as if). I had no clue who was going to be behind it all but I definitely didn't guess it could ever be Logan. I was almost ready to believe that it could be Mike Novick or even Martha (that's right, Martha!!). But not Logan. When he was revealed I literally let out a "awww, c'mon!!" because it seemed like such an improbable stretch. But lo and behold, this reveal turned out to be perhaps the greatest twist in the history of the show and provided for some of the most intense moments of 24 ever!! That final stretch of season 5 was beyond crazy!! Jack realizing that he has to take down the President of the United States!! How can you top that in terms of suspense????
(In season 8) Logan apparently survived taking a bullet to his head coming from Jack's gun.
Jack never fired a shot at Logan. Logan killed his assistant Jason Pillar by shooting him in the head through a pillow and then used the same gun on himself, unsuccessfully it seemed. Still, even if he survived he basically ended up a vegetable due to the brain damage he sustained from the gunshot.
1). Did Wayne Palmer survive his assassination attempt which took place during Season 6?
In 24: REDEMPTION it was alluded to that he died from his injuries. I think it's in the scenes between President Noah Daniels (Powers Boothe) and President-Elect Allison Taylor (Cherry Jones). Or maybe it was the scene with Daniels and Tom Lennox (Peter MacNicol).
2). The same went for Martha Logan.
Yeah, we don't know what happened to her.
3). What did happen to the POTUS during Season 4?
His fate is also unknown. The same goes for Behrooz Araz from season 4. His father Navi is killed by Jack and his mother Dina is shot by Marwan's men. Behrooz, however, just disappears and is never heard from again. I guess there's a "24 black hole" where certain characters disappear into.
I always thought that the perfect ending to "24" would have been that first hour of Season 8.
For me the most perfect ending to 24 was the end of season 4. After Michelle, Tony, and Chloe help fake Jack's death they say their good-byes, Tony and Michelle leave CTU for good, Jack says his good-bye to David Palmer, and he walks away down the railroad tracks into the sunrise as the music swells. It's one of my favorite moments from the entire series! Jack finally could start a new chapter in his life under a new identity and away from CTU. That would have been the ideal ending. Of course then we would have never gotten season 5. So there's that.
Audrey Raines would not have ended up being killed either in that Season 9 series finale.
I hated Audrey getting killed. I thought the whole point of "season 9" (24: LIVE ANOTHER DAY) was to finally give Jack proper closure by reuniting him with his true love which was always Audrey. I did not think they would resort to such a cheap tactic as killing her off for some cheap thrill. At this point I did not need to see another "shock death" because it had become such a cheap cliche. It would have actually been a cooler twist if they let her live and gave Jack a happy ending. We've come to expect sad endings from the show. There's no shock there. You want to shock us? How about giving us a happy ending? That will shock us!!
Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes! share
Jack never fired a shot at Logan. Logan killed his assistant Jason Pillar by shooting him in the head through a pillow and then used the same gun on himself, unsuccessfully it seemed.
Ringfire - That's right! You're 100% correct. As you described it I could picture it unfolding exactly as you stated. Actually I also must admit to never watching the entirety of Season 8 again after it ran on Fox that season. I even purchased the season 8 DVD but because of the way they had Jack going absolutely "Rambo" after Renee Walker was killed, I thought that the plot was borderline ludicrous and never watched the entirety of the DVD.
I did like that one scene around episode 4 or so in Season 8 when Jack encountered those African-American kids playing basketball. That one wannabe gangsta thug tried to intimidate Jack by telling him that he, (being Caucasian) was not where he should have been. Did that fool kid have any clue who he was messing with in Jack Bauer? Obviously not! Up to that point Jack had killed some seriously badass dudes, (Seasons 1 - 7). That kid was but a blip on the tough guy roster of people that Jack encountered throughout the series' run. Of course when Jack flashed that nasty looking Glock from his jacket pocket Mr. Tough-guy teenage punk, along with his friends quickly got the message that continuing to mess with Jack Bauer would have ended up with them all quite dead. In fact the one kid who did cooperate with Jack ended up with some $$ in his pocket for giving up the info. that Bauer was seeking.
The same goes for Behrooz Araz from season 4. His father Navi is killed by Jack and his mother Dina is shot by Marwan's men. Behrooz, however, just disappears and is never heard from again.
Actually in the "extras" for Season 4 they showed Behrooz being escorted out of CTU to who-knows-where. Who I really felt sorry for was the mother of Behrooz' girlfriend who was murdered by Dina, with that poisoned drink. The girl played by Leighton Meester should have left well enough alone instead of snooping in on Behrooz when he had delivered that package to the terrorists, following him in her car. Soon after Leighton's character's murder, her mother came to the house to ask where her daughter was and all three Araz' family members lied to her - even though the girl's body was in the house and just out of sight. The girl's body was never buried as intended, (Behrooz in self-defense ended up killing one of his father's co-conspirators, who had been assigned to kill Behrooz by his nasty father).
I can only imagine that eventually the mother would have been informed by local authorities that her daughter's body had been found. I'm sure that the mother would have been absolutely devastated and then unable to get any answers to questions that she would have had; that is unless Behrooz were to eventually go and tell her on his own.
One can also assume that in Season 5, Evelyn Martin, (Martha Logan's personal assistant) and her daughter were killed by Henderson, after he had been able to track their location at the hotel through a 9-1-1 call placed by the daughter. Thankfully the script writers of "24" showed some restraint by not making issue of it throughout the last 6 hours or so of that season. Making it crystal clear that a mother and her under 10 age daughter had been murdered on any prime-time network television show probably does not sit well with the FCC folks. Still one could probably guess that the fate of the mother/daughter was not one that was a happy ending. Christopher Henderson was one twisted, lunatic character and it was poetic justice that Jack ended up killing him late that season.
As for Wayne Palmer's fate I only saw the "redemption" episode, (between Season 6 and 7) once when it appeared on television. I simply don't remember any dialogue in which Wayne Palmer's death was discussed.
Finally I would only believe that Martha Logan was probably institutionalized in a mental hospital after her attempt at murdering her ex-husband. I just wish that in the dialogue between Aaron Pierce and President Taylor's daughter, (played by Sprague Grayden) that the issue was addressed in the script instead of the veiled manner in which it was written by the writers. What was the point of not revealing Martha's exact fate?
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I also must admit to never watching the entirety of Season 8 again after it ran on Fox that season. I even purchased the season 8 DVD but because of the way they had Jack going absolutely "Rambo" after Renee Walker was killed, I thought that the plot was borderline ludicrous and never watched the entirety of the DVD.
I personally loved that entire second half of season 8 when I was watching it on TV back in 2010 (wow, was it that long ago?) and have watched it again when I got the season 8 DVD. It's the first half of that season where my interest was waning as I was watching it during its original broadcast. It seemed like it was just going around in circles with yet again more Muslim extremist terrorists (who were used every other season, the even-numbered seasons - 2, 4, 6, 8) without all that much tension or suspense as we had seen in previous seasons. The story just seemed to be aimlessly wandering around without much focus. It really felt at that time like the show had finally run its course. Finally when President Hassan gets killed (in a shocking scene) that's when the show really picked up for me. Then Logan coming back and trying to "stick it" to Jack for "torpedoing his presidency" (as he put it) was really what the season needed at that point, especially since it was then that the producers decided this was going to be the show's final season so they wanted to end it with a bang during those last stretch of episodes. They certainly made up for that slow stretch during the early part of the season. Though to be honest when you watch it on DVD the first half of the season is a bit easier to get through, mainly because you know there is better stuff ahead and because when you watch the episodes consecutively it goes by quicker, as opposed to having to wait from week to week to find out what happens next (with a story that isn't all that engaging as it is).
I will agree with you that Jack going into Rambo mode was a bit much and that Renee's death wasn't necessary. It was merely the writers' way of trying to give us yet another shocking death (something which by that point we got pretty desensitized to anyway) and having Jack do all kinds of crazy bad-ass things. In the end I can live with it because Logan is really what makes that final stretch of episodes so great. Renee's death was a cheap shock attempt by the writers but I was more pissed at Audrey's death because she and Jack had a greater history together and she was always Jack's true love. Renee, on the other hand, was really only memorable during season 7. I didn't care for her return in season 8 (especially when they made her "damaged goods").
That one wannabe gangsta thug tried to intimidate Jack by telling him that he, (being Caucasian) was not where he should have been. Did that fool kid have any clue who he was messing with in Jack Bauer?
True that.
her mother came to the house to ask where her daughter was and all three Araz' family members lied to her - even though the girl's body was in the house and just out of sight
Yep, that scene was pretty disturbing. Poor Debbie was laying there on the floor just behind the door, dead. Meanwhile Dina was acting like the perfect suburban housewife. Brrrr! That Araz family was one creepy family! That's why season 4 was so awesome.
One can also assume that in Season 5, Evelyn Martin, (Martha Logan's personal assistant) and her daughter were killed by Henderson
Yeah it's difficult to imagine that Evelyn's little daughter was also killed. You almost want to wish that she survived somehow. Alas that's not the case. Henderson was one cold-blooded piece of work. Peter Weller ("Robocop") was outstanding in that role.
As for Wayne Palmer's fate I only saw the "redemption" episode, (between Season 6 and 7) once when it appeared on television. I simply don't remember any dialogue in which Wayne Palmer's death was discussed.
I have it on DVD so I will need to check. It's either said or implied but I can't remember.
Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes! share