Wanna know which episode number we're watching? Just divide the broadcast order number (8) by the DVD order number (2)! (KIDDING!) No, really, just to make things more interesting, pretend you've just seen the pilot and ignore the rest (NOT KIDDING). Perhaps this one should be called "Dance of the Episodes" instead.
In this episode, Number Six discovers a dead man washed up on the Village beach. At some point, I suppose there's some dancing involved.
You can see in this episode why it made no sense to broadcast this #8. There are several moments that it's expressed that #6 in new in the village. He doesn't know where Town Hall is located, he asks about the food delivery, he also says that "I'm new here". We also see the scientist try a mild brain scan on him and they get scolded by #2. This doesn't really make sense in the broadcast order as they've already tried something much more severe in A, B & C. He's unfamiliar with the sea which doesn't make sense in the broadcast order because of the Chimes of Big Ben.
"Questions are a burden to others and answers are a prison for oneself"
This is a really surreal episode even for this show.
This is a more cerebral slower moving episode so I can see why the Network decided to show it later.
The title refers to a dead man which #6 has now become to the outside world. Dutton also becomes a virtual dead man as they've given him some sort of lobotomy. It's clear that this is early in #6 stay and #2 is using a more modest and methodical approach to get the information from #6.
#2 is a female in this episode which is an interesting twist. They also use a black cat as an allegorical character to #2. I like how she's constantly popping in on #6. It adds a certain tension to the viewing experience.
There's a feeling in this one where they really want #6 to become part of the group, there's also several mentions that his outside world is over and this is his only world. There's also the beginning of the dynamic of how a man retains his individuality and still function in a society that's fundamentally corrupt. It's also interesting in this episode how we don't really know who the prisoners are and who the wardens are.
#6 meets Dutton when he attempts to send the dead body out as a type of message. Dutton in the end is expendable because his information isn't very valuable. In the end #6 appears on trial for violation of the rules. Of coarse there's no printed set of rules so there's a kangaroo court set up with Queen Elizabeth, Caesar and Napoleon. #6 observer, Little Bo Peep is his prosecutor and #2 Peter Pan is his defender. I guess the costumes are meant to be a bit ironic as the most powerful person, #2 is dressed as Peter Pan. Also #6 observer is dressed as "Little Bo Peep". In the end he's found guilty but he escapes the mob only to found in a room by #2. Again #2 reiterates that #6 is dead to the outside world and he better get used to it.
This is an episode with a lot of symbolism and allegory so it's not the fastest moving. There's certain moments in the episode that I don't really get. It's not one of my favorites but an important early episode. I give it 6 Peter Pans out of 10.
by JohnQ1127 » You can see in this episode why it made no sense to broadcast this #8. There are several moments...
Point taken. There was a great deal of evidence that this was an early episode. It would be very strange to get to episode 8 and have 6, all of a sudden, acclimating himself to his role in the Village. Why do TV networks have to screw the broadcast order like that?
I loved the cat. For one thing, it was a dead ringer for my cat, Leo. Except that Leo is a male, and older. For a moment I thought Number 2 was going to turn to the cat and say, "What are your orders, Number One?" Because, really, that's the only thing that's been missing from this whole surreal nightmare.
Even though this was an early episode as far as factual elements are concerned, this was the most bizarre and surreal installment so far. Perhaps the writers intended to plunge the viewers into the strangeness of the Village right away, just to make us viewers feel like a fish out of water just like Number 6.
Most of all, we got a feel of the oppression of the place and what kind of challenges Number 6 would have from now on. And the fact that he, now, is "dead" to the outside world. Welcome to your new and final home, Number 6.
The Carnival was an excellent way to represent the bizarreness of Number 6's situation. It looked more like a nightmare than even "A. B. and C." itself, which was almost totally in a dream world. I confess that I would have to watch this one a few more times and let the information settle in in my mind before I could make out what many parts meant.
I liked this Number 2, and I'm sad she won't be Number 6's main nemesis, because she does seem the most dangerous and shrewd Number 2 so far. It would be very hard for 6 to outsmart her. I also like the maid, and I wish we'd be seeing more of her. She's pretty, inquisitive, provocative and totally untrustworthy.
Hey, I think we just saw that cave and that beach on Planet of the Apes (the fish episode). Seriously, a body washing up ashore is a very common dramatic device on TV shows and movies.
All in all, a good episode after we've made sense of it. I decree that this one deserves 8 days of mandatory Carnival fun.
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Why do TV networks have to screw the broadcast order like that?
From what I read this was mainly McGoohan's fault. This was intended as the second episode but he wasn't satisfied with the episode so he decided to hold off and re-edit the final version. It's a rather dark episode and kind of weird and dreamlike so ITC may have also wanted it played later for fear of losing the audience.
Even though this was an early episode as far as factual elements are concerned, this was the most bizarre and surreal installment so far. Perhaps the writers intended to plunge the viewers into the strangeness of the Village right away, just to make us viewers feel like a fish out of water just like Number 6.
This was written by Anthony Skene and he said that he was influenced by Alice in Wonderland, The Devil and Daniel Webster and Orson Wells' The Trial for this episode. He intentionally wanted it surreal and dreamlike and weird. There's also elements of identity and death and #6 reluctance to accept his new life and forgo his past life.
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At that time, series episodes were stand alone. There weren't many arc stories. You could and would see a show in any order...except for "Arrival" and "Once Upon a Time" and "Fallout" were obvious beginnings and endings. (Although Chimes of Big Ben was first too...whatevs). But even those eps were seen out of context.
The current arguments over which ep came before which is irrelevant in context of that time. So, is it production order, broadcast order, fan debate order, or some other order? 17 eps, who cares?
This was not what we have today as mini series. Shows like Farscape, Lost, and Supernatural did not exist. One ep was not necessarily a follow up to the next.
Just watch the darn show. Or line em up as you like, and knock yourself out.
Ummm, you might want to take a look at my photo.
While it's true that the overwhelming majority of shows back then had episodes that could be in random order, there were exceptions, and The Prisoner is clearly one of them. As you mention, three out of seventeen obviously have a specific "slot". It's also clear that some simply make more sense earlier in the sequence. This one, for example has to come before "Many Happy Returns", which establishes that he's on an island. It would make no sense for him to attempt an escape by running up the beach if he knew it just led right back to where he started. Apparently, there are other such examples, so this series is in the minority of '60s-era shows.
rrandcoyote: Or line em up as you like, and knock yourself out.
Yeah, but there are five of us and we don't agree on what we like. And I'd rather knock madp out.
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by dtmuller » Ummm, you might want to take a look at my photo.
The nerve of the fellow. The guy just assumes we are kids. We are probably all older than he is. To whom it may concern, we were all big enough to have watched the show when it first aired. So it's also a silly assumption that we wouldn't know how television shows in the 1960s and 1970s worked.
rrandcoyote:Or line em up as you like, and knock yourself out.
Yeah, but there are five of us and we don't agree on what we like. And I'd rather knock madp out.
Hey, what's that supposed to mean? I was going to suggest that he watch the episodes alphabetically. maybe that will help him.
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madp: Hey, what's that supposed to mean? I was going to suggest that he watch the episodes alphabetically. maybe that will help him.
Now, I understand figures of speech as well as anyone, but whenever someone says "knock yourself out", I always imgine running myself headlong into a tree and knocking myself out. (And I once saw a guy who actually did that.) It seems rather painful, both during and after the event, so I'd rather pick someone else. Figured I should take the guy who's farthest away and will have the hardest time coming after me.
If you watch the episodes alphabetically, at least "Arrival" comes before "Fall Out".
Now, maybe the guy was being patronizing, but maybe he was just having some fun with us. Sometimes you write stuff and it comes across the wrong way. Especially when written by someone who's just a kid.
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by dtmuller » I was going to suggest that he watch the episodes alphabetically. maybe that will help him. Now, I understand figures of speech as well as anyone, but whenever someone says "knock yourself out", I always imagine running myself headlong into a tree and knocking myself out.
Honestly, I thought you were challenging me to a boxing match...
Now, maybe the guy was being patronizing, but maybe he was just having some fun with us. Sometimes you write stuff and it comes across the wrong way. Especially when written by someone who's just a kid.
I have to admit that when I came across you guys, I thought you could be a bunch of kids. And was hoping for some girls as well. No luck in that department.
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madp: I have to admit that when I came across you guys, I thought you could be a bunch of kids. And was hoping for some girls as well. No luck in that department.
But I am a kid. Just ask my 97-year-old aunt. (Who claims to be 40, but I claim to be 29, so I guess I'm still a kid.)
Years ago, I recall seeing a book called "How to Pick Up Girls". (No, I didn't run out and buy it.) I'm guessing it didn't have a chapter on "Internet Chat Forums About Cheesy Single-Season TV Shows".
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by dtmuller » But I am a kid. Just ask my 97-year-old aunt. (Who claims to be 40, but I claim to be 29, so I guess I'm still a kid.)
When I go to one of my father's functions with the freemasons, the events which are open to family members, They refer to me as my dad's kid. many of them as 75, 80 or older... So I do feel like a kid. When there are dinner celebrations and music is played, I keep thinking, "Gosh! Old people's music!" I mean, I like old songs, but these are really old and cheesy. Yeah, I'm one of the kids on those occasions.
Years ago, I recall seeing a book called "How to Pick Up Girls". (No, I didn't run out and buy it.) I'm guessing it didn't have a chapter on "Internet Chat Forums About Cheesy Single-Season TV Shows".
My keen instincts told me this was the place to be? What possibly could've gone wrong?
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Ah, this is more like it. I delighted this week in hearing phrases like “I’m new here,” “I’ve only arrived recently,” “I’ve never seen a night,” and “We indulge…for a time.” Yes, clearly this was an early episode and should be seen early on as we are doing now. The Prisoner is just getting the lay of the land, trying to figure out how things work and looking for flaws in the system that he can exploit.
First off, they try a simple ploy to try to con him into revealing classified information, but he is too clever for them. This week’s number two, a woman this time, was a good foe for him. Obviously intelligent, she tries to maneuver Number Six while he resists both verbally and by actions. It’s like a chess game between the two. We learn he is a highly valuable asset to them, to be broken but not destroyed. (Perhaps that’s why his number is so low compared to others. He may have been an extremely valuable agent – one notch above 007, perhaps.) She wants him to give up on his own, and is willing to be patient to achieve that end.
There’s no huge singular plot this week, more like a series of vignettes. Number 6 tries to sneak around at night, but runs into the big bubble. Number 2 thinks he will return to his house, but he defiantly sleeps on the sand instead. There’s a big dance planned and he is invited. When he learns it’s an annual event he tries to find out for how long – always trying to catch someone off guard and get some answers.
Curiously, there’s another agent whom they refer to as Dutton, and even reveal his full name of Roland Walter Dutton at a couple of points. I don’t know why he didn’t merit a number, as he was expendable by their standards. Number 2 says she doesn’t like to use names when Number Six uses his name, but she never refers to him as a number either. He talks to the Prisoner in secret and sounds like a fellow agent he knew. Has he already been broken and is telling Number Six what they want him to hear, or is he revealing some truths? We’re never really sure.
The climax of the episode is Number Six attending the dance where everyone else is in costume but he is just given a formal suit to wear. He is put on trial for taking and using a radio off a dead body he found on the shore. Little Bo Peep is sent to prosecute him, while Number Two dressed as Peter Pan is his defense. He calls on Dutton to be his character witness, only to see him dressed as a jester with his mind apparently gone. He is sentenced to death and chased by the crowd, who appear at that point to be as mindless as Dutton (just livelier). He escapes into the background area, finding another dead body and a printing machine of some sort, but no real answers. Number Two finds him and assures him he’s not going to win this battle of wits. That’s where it ends, and it’s a bit anti-climactic. But that’s forgivable in such an early episode where we’re just starting to learn the score. Somehow I don’t think next week’s show will explain how the crowd out to kill him was quieted. I imagine they just thought it was part of the celebration and had no real intention of killing him. We do find out they’re preparing a body to send out with his identification so that the world will think he’s dead. Thus, he looks to be destined to be in the Village permanently – either willingly, or like Dutton.
There's lots more to it than what I described here, including lots of little things that may be fodder for discussion. Despite its flaws and unanswered questions, it’s still a fascinating episode to watch. I’ll give it 8 pretty maids in costume.
By the way, I’m still waiting on a place from wlcebtg so I can complete my psychological experiment. Thanks.
Number Two finds him and assures him he’s not going to win this battle of wits. That’s where it ends, and it’s a bit anti-climactic.
From what I've read, they were working on 3 episodes simultaneously as the second episode, "Checkmate and Free For All" being the other two. Scriptwriter Anthony Skene wrote this one with the intention that this was going to be the second episode. He was interviewed saying that he was influenced by "Alice in Wonderland" and Orson Wells "The Trial" and "The Devil and Daniel Webster" for this episode. He wanted shadows and a surreal dream like episode. Patrick McGoohan was unsatisfied with the episode and decided to go back and re-edit "Dance of the Dead" and hold off its broadcast, that's why it was broadcasted 8th. The original ending had #6 smashing the teletype machine to pieces and then leaving with Little Bo Peep. He turns to #2 at the end says "Death does have its advantages", they then walk back and join the dance.
McGoohan may have thought the episode to dark and bleak and slightly confusing to broadcast as the #2 episode although narratively & chronologically it makes sense. Maybe McGoohan and ITC feared an overall dark and bleak episode overall and a lobotomized man stripped of his dignity was too overwhelming for the audience and that they might not come back.
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Thank you JohnQ1127 for adding all your information. It makes me understand the episode all the more. I can certainly see the "Alice in Wonderland" and "Devil and Daniel Webster" influences, and now I can see why the ending seemed so abrupt as well.
By the way, I am going to post the results of my psychological experiment right after madp posts Friday's episode. If wlcebtg wants to join in by submitting a place, he can still do so. Otherwise, I can just deliver the results for those who have already participated. See you Friday.
No, maybe we should stay with the numbers game; it was more fun. Yes, clearly this was intended as an early episode, and placing it as early as second certainly makes sense. Whether it came in eighth because of McGoohan's fussing with it or because of a network decision, I don't know. But either one makes sense. #1127 suggested that maybe the network was afraid of losing the audience. Those fears were well-founded. If I knew nothing of this show and saw "Arrival", I'd be anxious to see how this would be developed next week. If I then saw "Dance of the Dead", there's a good chance I wouldn't be back. I might give it another shot, but we'll have to see how that would work on Friday.
This, I think, is the real explanation for why the networks dink with the series order. You have to remember that, whatever they say about entertainment, artistry, etc., the real purpose of a commercial television network is to get the sponsors to give their money to the network's stockholders. The means to achieve this is to get you to watch the commercials. The program is only an enticement for you to turn to their channel and stick around long enough for them to run the commercial. If they could do that by showing test patterns, they would. But they know you'd rather watch people eating bugs, or B-list (or C-list!) quasi-celebrities dancing, or married couples bickering among themselves and their annoying kids, and so that's what they broadcast between commercials. Show "Dance of the Dead" on the second week, and half their audience will be watching Maya (NBC's offering in that time slot) for the rest of the season.
The other thing regarding the order is that you have to ask if the producers ever specified the order of the episodes. Remember Day Break? Now, that one had to have everything in a specific order, because it was one long story and nothing would make sense otherwise. Many shows have story arcs or even main plots that require a given order. Were the networks given that, or were they simply told: "Arrival" first, "Fall Out" last, and here's the rest?
An episode this bizarre really needed to be saved for later, and the "I'm new here" episode should have had a simpler, more cohesive plot. This one was neither a good early episode, nor a good later episode. Fundamentally flawed.
This week, the rating plummets to a 4-transistor radio. (Remember when they pitched radios based on the number of transistors? Just try that today: Get the new LG Applesung Galaxypad 4,953,489,632-transistor Tablet!)
An episode this bizarre really needed to be saved for later, and the "I'm new here" episode should have had a simpler, more cohesive plot.
Originally the show was only going to have 7 episodes so this one and "Free For All", "Checkmate" were all written to be the second, third or fourth episode. Perhaps if McGoohan knew that he would be making 17 episodes, this episode would have been given more time to be re-written and used at a later time.
There's a lot of surreal symbolism and it's a rather bleak and dark episode. I think it's the darkest & bleakest of the series. It probably doesn't help that we went from 2 very good episodes like Big Ben, A, B, and C out of sequence back to this one which is an early episode.
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Episodes like this one is why the show didn’t make it for a second season.
There was never an intention on having a second season. McGoohan only wanted to make 7 episodes and the network wanted 23 and a compromise was reached at 17.
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