MovieChat Forums > Grand Prix (1966) Discussion > Hadn't seen this in years, forgot about ...

Hadn't seen this in years, forgot about the total lack of safety

posted 13 years ago by naturboy99
19 replies | jump to latest

OMFG.

Any racing fans who know anything about how the sport has evolved has to look at virtually everything about how the sport was back then and be amazed that there weren't even more fatalities than there were.

Lets just look at the big ones.

No guard rails. Hundreds if not thousands of trees at Spa to hit. Jim Clark would still be alive if there had been quardrails at Hockenheim.

No pit wall at Monaco or Spa. Literally hundreds of people with no protection from the cars not just at the pits but all along the course. I've went to many a sprint car race and stood in the pits, and it's terrifying enough at times with the guardrails, I cannot imagine a Formula One car at full song going past with nothing at all between it and I. That must have been a fantastic adrenaline rush, but insane.

Skinny, hard tires in the rain.

Helmets and driving suits in name only.

Roll hoops lower than the top of the driver's heads for God's sake!

Totally wide open cockpits.

Parts reliability far worse than today (Yes I know that suspension failure was way exaggerated in the movie) but I don't care what, if something goes wrong at full song in an F1 car on those deathtrap roads. The ending at Monza and the wreck at Spa yes were way over the top, but if you know the story of Wolfgang Von Trips not really so much.

I read a quote from Jackie Stewart once that he ans his wife had started counting up the number of friends they had lost in racing accidents, and I believe he said they stopped counting at 50.

It's hard to conceive that just a half century ago auto racing was so literally a blood sport.

But at least they had seat belts by then. It wasn't too many years prior that it was still thought safer to be thrown clear onto a paved roat at 120 MPH with a cardboard helmet than risk being trapped in a fire.

I don't think I could have been such a racing fan back then, it guts me so hard when drivers get killed, and I'm sure that if all forms of racing were counted it was at least one a week.

The terrorists won a battle with America on 4/21/10 thanks to the cowards at Comedy Central

[–] kenny-164 13 years ago

99,

I would just quibble by pointing out back then that narrow tires were seen as somewhat better in the rain since they were less likely to aqua plane.

[–] sascha-17 13 years ago

Yeah.. skinny tires are better in the rain- wide ones aquaplane a lot easier. The rubber and treads they used back then however was more or less horrible. These things lasted an entire race IIRC, so they didn't offer all that much grip - even in the dry. That's why you see so many four-wheel-drifts from those cars. Plus there was nothing other than the supsension to press the rubber onto the tarmac - read: just mechanical and no aerodynamic grip.

One aspect you forgot to mention is the ultra-lightweight construction of the cars and the fact that the drivers were more or less sitting on a huge tank full of fuel. Surviving a crash and then burning up inside your cockpit was a very real danger back then, and probably the one death drivers feared the most.

Still: I completely understand Stirling Moss when he says that he's glad that he raced before the introduction of any safety equipment. Let's be honest: The very real danger of it all was a huge part of the excitement/appeal of the sport - both for the spectators and the drivers.

You don't walk a tightrope over a road-side ditch tethered to a safetly line. If you want to make it exciting, you walk it over the Grand Canyon and without a net.

[–] turbocoop 12 years ago

I can't remember which F1 team it was but some technical genius back then thought that making a car out of magnesium would be a good idea. If you want to know how insane of an idea this is just ask any chemist how magnesium reacts with fire.

[–] sagehaven 12 years ago

just finished watching it on AMC (no commercials and the intermission) and noticed a bit were Stoddard is pulling into the pits after he breaks the lap record (or something like that) at Holland (Zanvort). The view is from the cockpit and he JUST misses a car starting to pull out of it's pit and it looks like his front right tire grazes the other cars left front, and the scene was left in. crazy.

Also love how at Spa and Zanvort it looks like they're on some 'B' road in Wales.

[–] johncdavison 12 years ago

DeTomaso among others built monocoques from magnesium - there was a very ugly crash at Zandvoort - Roger Williamson's inverted March was on fire, no fire fighting gear worth its name on the marshals' stations and the obvious unhappy ending... as the racers continued to drive by the site.
A small sports racer crashed in an amateur race at Road Atlanta and the gearbox casting and/or wheels caught fire - no injuries to speak of but a spectacular fire.
Fortunately, today there is a good aqueous system that actually handles "Type D" fires.

[–] diagoro (490) 4 years ago

Just saw it for the first time. My take (as a non racing fan)......it's basically a fiberglass tube with wheels.

[–] kungfuflygirl 12 years ago

I liked your post. It's stuff that's new to me, except I've heard Jackie Stewart describe the insane races he survived. When one gets to know the physics behind things, these race scenes are even more spectacular to watch. I'm always thinking are they sure those tires are going to stay glued to the road?

Speaking of spectator safety, anyone see the MINI Cooper in a race in Australia? It flipped over into a crowd of spectators, missed everyone in its path. They were all extremely lucky that day.

There's a perfect line from this movie to explain how on earth the drivers remain in denial of that lack of safety.

"To do something dangerous requires a certain absence of imagination."

You know, this is true with a myriad of physically dangerous sports. I'm guilty of being of the same mindset, probably because I've been lucky. I ride event horses. I have got tossed, rolled over, and whatever else. The fun wipes out the idea of danger.

I guess, for these race drivers it's the same?

You know everyone does dangerous things every day without thinking about it. Ordinary road driving can be statistically dangerous.

The race footage from this film should give you an idea of how mesmerizing it must be to go that fast. The physics of driving like that looks tempting. I'd love to try that through the ring taxi at Nurburgring, which I sooo want to do. It gets booked up quickly.

The rest of this movie was pretty boring, lol! I found myself forwarding through it to watch the race scenes. I just saw it the other day. Thank you TCM.

[–] RichN36 11 years ago

I agree with all that you have said. Just watching even old films of NASCAR races from the 70's and earlier there is no thought to the safety of the drivers. But you want to see something really scary watch the open credits of "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" Not for the Movie or anything just to watch the way Races were back in the early 1900's.

There is more Gravy about you then the Grave. Scrooge.

[–] kenny-164 11 years ago

I am old enough that I remember, as a teenager who did follow especially F1 back then, and also GT racing, when big name drivers would die in crashes. I went to a couple of Indy car races, too, and decades later went through a Nascar phase, that has mostly died out for lack of interest. Heh. Just watched parts of the Daytona 24 last weekend, during which there was a horrific crash.

For some reason in particular i remember when Lorenzo Bandini died. Bandini only won one F1 race, but had some big GT wins such as the 24 hour LeMans race. I mention him in particular not only because I was a fan, but because he died in a crash almost exactly like the one that was shown in Grand Prix at Monte Carlo, that being at the harbor chicane, the year after Grand Prix was filmed. Eva Marie Saint later said that the site of the crash shown in the film was recommended to Frankenheimer by none other than Bandini as the most dangerous spot on the circuit.

While Bandini was famous enough at the time, I mention him here for two reasons. One is that while I was aware of driver deaths before that, my being a fan of his really brought it home to me. The other is that it was less than a year later that Jim Clark, arguably not only the best driver in the world at the time, but the best ever, died at an F2 race in Germany. As contemporary Chris Amon more or less said, if Clark could die, as smooth and great a driver as he was, "what chance do the rest of us have?"

Jackie Stewart is generally acknowledged as the top driver who then began his crusade to improve racing safety. No doubt Clark's death was an impetus.

The point I want to make is that whatever the thrill of the risk in auto racing, and there no doubt is that, the cost to me as a fan, and to all fans, of the loss of great drivers was too much to let it go on as it was, no matter what Stirling Moss's view was on the subject. Add that on top of the obvious and horrific loss to the drivers and their loved ones, and something had to give. And it did.

Years later Dale Earnhardt's death as the most well known driver in Nascar led to a latter day effort to improve racing safety.

[–] ReelFanatic 11 years ago

Jackie Stewart is without question the force behind the push for racing safety that began back in the 60's. There is a book entitled "The Cruel Sport", that outlines the dangers back then. Virtually no protection for drivers, fans or crews. Races that would continue with obvious fatal crashes. Straw hay bales for protection from crashing magnesium constructed cars laden with racing fuel. It is miraculous that more drivers didn't die.

Stewart believed safety was important and he grew tired of attending funerals. Many also credit the push toward safety with the increased commercial presence. A top sponsor didn't want to see their driver die on Sunday as it would be horrible PR.

After Ayrton Senna's death in 1994, there was another enormous push for event safety led by Sid Watkins, the then FIA Medical Doctor.

Formula One has always been and always will be dangerous, but watching Grand Prix it's hard to believe it survived that deadly period of its history.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] John-367 10 years ago

There is a BBC documentary called "The Deadliest Crash" about the Le Mans 1955 disaster when a car took off and flew into the crowd killing over 80. Safety measures, for crowd or drivers, seem to have been almost zero.

[–] cstapleton 10 years ago

There's also a great new documentary called 1 that centres on the history of the safety movement in Formula 1.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2518788/?ref_=rvi_tt

It's available on Blu Ray and DVD.

[–] ib011f9545i 10 years ago

There is another doc called "GRAND PRIX THE KILLER YEARS"which shows how drivers had to fight to get safety to be taken seriously by the organisers of motor sport.
JACKIE STEWART was a leader in this process.
The film shows incredible scenes of a driver trying to stop his friend dying in a burning crashed car and they did not even stop the race.
I can't recall the driver's name,but a hero anyway.

The story of how the drivers changed F 1 would make a great film.

[–] Jefbecco-1 9 years ago

Another good documentary is "Weekend of a Champion" (1972). Doumentary which focuses on Jackie Stewart at the 1971 Monaco Grand Prix. Covers the three days. Very interesting and made only about five years after "Grand PRix" and already there were changes in the equipment.

[–] spookyrat1 8 years ago

Very interesting and made only about five years after "Grand PRix" and already there were changes in the equipment.

I'm certainly no expert on the history of Grand Prix racing, but aside from the technical achievements in filming, the lack of safety for both drivers and onlookers was the next thing that really stood out to me in this movie. The whole safety element just seemed primitive compared to what occurs 50 years later IRL.🐭

[–] Jefbecco-1 8 years ago

It really was primitive.

[–] bop101 (148) 4 years ago

Check out, RACING LEGENDS when playboys ruled the world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8g76MLblQU&ab_channel=GeeA

[–] liscarkat (19031) 2 months ago

My dad had a 1950s type helmet that he used when he raced motorcycles. It was basically a hemispherical shell made of laminated cardboard, with leather ear flaps and chin strap. Not much more than a bucket to contain the remains of your head if you hit it during a hard crash. Around 1969 a pit steward banned it, and made him switch to a modern helmet. The first time he wore it he crashed and another rider ran over his head. He walked away, but if he had still been using the old helmet, he probably wouldn't have.