So THIS is better than CITIZEN KANE?

whatever poseur

I once had an opinion similar to yours, CK man. I used to brag that CK was the best film ever made and I would'nt hear any other suggestion. I was mostly endorsing a widely held notion among film critics and historians rather than a personally felt sentiment about Welles' movie. That was back in the days of my youth when I felt the need to side with an intelligentsia rather than to defend my own heartfelt opinion. Until... I realized the whole folly of my positions and with my ever increasing passion and discovery of cinema, I ultimately freed myself of my early snobbery, which, more often than not, is a way people find to hide their basic lack of solid knowledge and competence on a particular subject.

I had lied to myself. Although I had read enough about CK before even watching it one first time, I couldn't say that I enjoyed the movie when I watched it for the first time, with high expectations. It was in fact a huge disappointment for me. I thought that with its alleged genius and with the distinction of being selected as THE single best film ever made came the sheer pleasure that should come with the best art. But with CK, after the initial, genuine wonder of seeing a visual splendor (and that, my friends, is something nothing can steal from CK: its incredibly original, daring camera shots are an absolute ravishment for the eyes that not even TGTBATU can come any close to), there is very little revisiting value to this movie. Why? Perhaps because it lacks what TGTBATU has plenty to offer: humanity, sensuality, emotions - which have nothing to do with the fact that CK is a B&W movie. And this is where Leone's film managed to displace even CK from my short list of best movies ever made. Gee, I would rather watch Touch of Evil twice before even reaching for CK again in my collection. I still watch it on rare occasions, but it's mostly out of boredom...

On the contrary, TGTBATU is one of a handful of titles that I never ever tire myself from watching repeatedly. And to say that it is 3 hrs long and that some people raise this as one of the main flaws of that movie! Rather on the contrary, the slow but solemn and effective pace of TGTBATU needs all that time to develop as the magnificent epic that it is. I won't repeat what has already been said about the other qualities of the movie: the positive reviews here on IMdB are consistent and complete enough for anybody interested to read them.

I will not go as far as saying that the OP loves CK to death (you watched it 50 times? man! that ought to create mutations, right?) out of mere snobbery. However, the rest of the OP's opinions tends to go in the general direction of academism, i.e. a disease whereby someone of the elite wouldn't be caught publicly saying anything that would leave the impression that his/her opinion is not in agreement with what the elite has to say about any artistic topic (here, the received opinion that CK is the absolute, unequaled masterpiece of cinema's history. As some of you here have appropriately mentioned, some works of art can be appreciated mainly for qualities that are only secondary to their intrinsic value as works of art. For instance, some of DW Griffith's marathonian movies are major works nowadays mostly for historical reasons rather than genuine, intrinsic artistic merit per se (regardless of their gross bigotry). I'm afraid that CK's true importance (a word that is already suspicious when talking about artistic value) will increasingly correspond to its historical significance as the first movie ever made making use of any number of special camera movements or lighting innovations. The list of CK's original contributions is long, confirming its well deserved status as the #1 (or #2 depending on the year now, with Vertigo gradually replacing it as THE ultimate movie according to the majority of the most knowledgeable people (now I concur: for me, it's either Vertigo or 2001, which are now among the top 3 of the most trusted lists).

It's good to see that after all, trusting my personal opinion rather than some preconceived notion received from relying on the critics' opinion did not mislead me too much! I mean, I love 2001 and Vertigo to death and it has been so for a very long time, before the internet happened, and independently from consulting some authorities on the subject. It used to be much harder to be tightly connected to the well-informed intelligentsia on artistic matters. People have now become addicted to 'best of' lists and almost live only to get the chance to share their personal preferences with everybody and to try to demolish what other people think. Critics have become a preferred target for lots of social media addicts, and the IMdB's own top 250 list is an eloquent testimony to how little "well-respected" experts and critics have to say about anything that matters (please see my irony here: I for myself do have quite some faith in what. critics think...). "The Shawshank Redemption" ranks at #381 in the TSMDT list (still ranking numero uno at IMdB), and a pitiful but well-made turkey such as Interstellar (#32 at IMdB) has not made a dent yet in any serious movie critics' agregated list, including its notable absence from TSMDT's Top 1000 (and for good reason: Interstellar is an expensive ode to human stupidity). But before the internet era, one had to do some serious digging to get 'best of' lists of any worldwide importance on cinema. If there's one thing I learned since I started to love cinema 50 yrs ago or so, it's to trust one's true feelings about movies because like any other works of art, they address the human heart first and foremost, be it light comedies, westerns, dramas or even science-fiction (whose technical aspects don't make a film if it does not have a solid story rooted in universally true values).

And that, my friend, is one thing that CK cruelly lacks: acting that could convey the authentic drama that the story is trying to tell through Welles' incredibly mind-boggling and spectacular images. Ultimately, CK is cruelly devoid of human passion, sentiment and .... life! With all its epic-sized depiction of one man's life story, despite the promises of a potentially unique subject that should have captured audiences' heart amd attention for a couple of hours, the movie fails to deliver. High expectations, low rewards, and a feeling of frustration as we read the word (spoiler alert!) "Rosebud" right before "The End". Where was the beef?

The answer: Welles' ego had eaten it.

TGTBATU's is a true desert island movie for me. Is it better than "Once ... in the West"? I'd say it's on par with the former and is essential too for slightly different reasons. As someone aptly pointed out here, it's a unique western as it features a woman's struggle at the center of its plot, and is less about greed and the rule of violence and more about classic values such as stealing of one's youth and family and the persistence of memory as a driving force in life. To anybody who thinks westerns have nothing to say and are a minor genre devoid of any style, class or elegance, Mr. Leone provided with OUATITW the ultimate rebuttal. It is a masterpiece. Perhaps a minor one compared to Vertigo, 2001 or even CK, but as the ultimate operatic melodrama with guns and epic music, an unequalled one.

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I beg your forgiveness for such an overly drawn out "bit" of an opinion... but hey! I'm a goddamn intellectual like the OP 📝📚🔬☠
And to the OP: you have fed this thread long enough to at least have a moral obligation to those who rightfully and respectfully answered back defending this movie's in a Good Bad Ugly, not a Kane forum, remember?. You owe us a bona fide review or at least informed opinion about TGTBATU. I mean, a real movie buff like you claim to be must have found the time to watch it up to the very end after all that time, mustn't you?

And if this can be of any use to you, I used to be a bit like you, in that not only was I pretending to think that CK was that masterpiece of masterpieces and shame on any lost soul believing otherwise, but also in that I didn't like westerns. I'm still marginally interested in westerns at best, but I have since long included many westerns not only among movies whose value I acknowledge, but also among my collection of 'must watch' and most preferred movies to watch repeatedly: many Leone's of course, but also westerns with Eastwood characters (with him as actor and/or director), especially, along with a few classics. Still not my preferred genre by far and large, but a departure from those days when just hearing horses and guns at the same time was enough for me to call it quits!

The best that.could happen to the OP, even if just hearing the word "Rosebud" is still enough to make you salivate profusely and raise all the hairs along your spine, would be to lead you to reach your inner self for just one time and bring you that blessed revelation: TGTBATU is more than just a "badass" movie;0: it has everything that any true-to-life movie buff is looking for in a movie, and some! Oh yes! And more than some.

There is a special kind of movies for me, a unique category, and I can name only very few ones that really belong to it. So, before defining it, I'll tell what the other categories of "movies I like best" are

- movies that I once watched with utter amazement, but never felt compelled to watch again. Trial at Nuremberg or Night and Fog, for instance: too unbearable and yet absolute masterpieces that I loved (in a general sense) to watch
- movies that I wouldn't mind watching again since I absolutely adored them at the time but that I don't love enough to invest in buying them: The Exorcist is one example
- now, there are a couple of hundred movies that I consider essential and that I purchased and kept knowing that I'll like watching them again and again: I even include CK here although I know I won't watch it as often as, let's say North by Northwest... but still
- and, the very unique category I was about to describe: those movies that I not only love to revisit often, but that I grow fonder of every time I rewatch them : and despite it's a western, TGTBATU is one of them. 2001 is another example...

To say that I will never grow weary of a western! I wouldn't have thought so before I got rid of some prejudices that I had about "cowboy features". Thanks Clint! and Sergio too, of course :) Thanks to you, I saw the light .... of some Almerian desert that I manage to see as Arizona.

Of course, after watching it, CK man, you might want to quickly switch on Citizen Kane for the 666th time to get your Rosebud fix and pardon yourself for having sinned and watched a ..... noooooooo! ..... las! a western (gulp). I'm sure nobody will report you for this and that your reputation as a CK fan will remain intact and that your impeccable taste in movies will stay unadulterated in the oublc's eye. Your academc reputation is safe with us ! (MWAAAHAHA! Oops, sorry, the varnish is wearing off...)....

But seriously, I wish you the best, meaning to give a true chance to this movie, and you may thank IMdB later for having led you to a discovery you won't regret. And you might lose your ... lack of inclination for westerns, not to use a stronger expression!

- But you can't have her again as costume designer, Mr. Hitchcock!
- Really, Peggy? Give me Head!

that's nice but what does that have to do with finding out what other people enjoyed?