THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE will be released April 29, 2008, in a two-disc special edition.
Following the release of EL CID Jan. 29, it appears the four Bronston titles will be issued every three months, if they keep to this "schedule". If so, late July and late October should see the remaining two (55 DAYS AT PEKING, which I hope is next, and CIRCUS WORLD) appear.
At the Amazon page for this movie, there is a comment in the discussion forum that claims that 35 minutes of unseen footage has "just been found" and that is is being restored for a delayed release in December. It will be interesting to see if that turns out to be true.
shareI would gladly wait until December. Now if only they could find the music tracks for all these films.
shareI'd wait till December too -- wonder what this extra footage could be? There's already a big difference between the road show version and the shorter film that was the standard print shown for many years. I assume the DVD would be of the full-length film, but if there's additional footage it might be nice if they could splice it back into the body of the film instead of just making it an extra.
If they do delay FALL, I hope they push up the releases of the remaining Bronstons.
A small amount of footage cut from the roadshow version after the premiere was found, but not the half hour that was claimed. Someone got a little overexcited, I'm afraid. It's currently going to be the standard three-hour version - which is half an hour longer than the two-and-a-half hour US general release version but isn't longer than the laserdisc issue.
"This time it's no more Mr. Passive Resistance!"
but isn't longer than the laserdisc issue.By which, do you mean it's the same length as, or nevertheless still shorter than the laserdisc? On your recommendation, I got the German widescreen DVD version a year or two ago, for which I was and remain very grateful. I think you mentioned that a particular scene was still missing from that version. Unfortunately, I have a lousy memory, and I've forgotten precisely what scene it was - you mentioned an abrupt cut. Do you know if the recently rediscovered footage is that missing scene?
It's the same length as the laserdisc - at this time they don't want to run to the expense of restoring the brief 'trilemma' scene (you can find details on the alternate versions page for the film) that is the only bit of footage that has actually been "rediscovered."
"This time it's no more Mr. Passive Resistance!"
So, is it correct that TFOTRE will, then, be released as per schedule on April 29?
I had frankly been surprised to hear that 30 or so "new" minutes had been discovered, as I thought that virtually all the original film -- the full-length roadshow version at 172 mins., vs. the 153 min. version that was the usual print seen for 30 years or so -- had finally made it back into general circulation in the late 90s.
TrevorAclea -- how long is this extra bit of footage? From your description it sounds as if it's along the lines of 3-4 minutes, not 34. Anything of import?
There are always outtakes and other discarded or lost footage from any film, including stuff that never makes it into any official release print. At some point you have to make a determination of what does and does not constitute the actual, full-length, release version, and go with that, including restoring scenes cut after an initial, longer premiere. Anything else is basically an extra.
Bottom line: THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE is coming as announced, April 29, 2008.
Probably.
Well, the full roadshow was a bit over 187 minutes if you include theoverture (a brief one minute twelve seconds or so), intermission music and the identical Entr'acte and Exit music (as near as anyone can tell the latter two are both identical versions of The Fall of Love, so many presentations dropped the exit music).
The trilemma scene is described in the 'alternate versions' section of the film's IMDB page and I'd probably guess from memory it's nearer two minutes than three. It is an interesting insight into Commodus' worldview and his own place at the center of it, so it's surprising it got cut: mnaybe it just drew laughs from the audience in 1964? There were other trims for various releases - Sophia Loren's second scene with Alec Guinness while Stephen Boyd goes to meet Christopher Plummer for the first time often got cut as well.
There are stills of deleted scenes - Finlay Curray being murdered by Eric Porter in the second Senate scene when Boyd tries to reason with them (itself also often cut from many versions) as he starts to make another speach the most notable, but they seem only to have been in the rough cut. Right from the start there seems to have been pressure from Rank (who held the all-important European rights) to keep the running time around three hours because of the exhibitor problems with the four-hour cut of Cleopatra.
"This time it's no more Mr. Passive Resistance!"
Thank you for your detailed reply! I never knew that poor Finlay got murdered; but then, until I finally saw the roadshow version the little tidbit about Anthony Quayle's gladiator being Commodus's father was excised as well (along wiith his fate at the hands of his grateful son).
Anyway, it sounds as though we'll be getting the roadshow released on DVD, hopefuly with the overture, intermission, etc. music passages, and we'll have to see what's in the extras. I'll be interested to read the reviews of the DVD when it comes out, considering the mixed reception from the critics the film itself got upon its release in '64.
Again, thanks for your very helpful and informative response.
Stabbed in the back of the neck by Eric Porter...
The overture etc will probably be included, but no 'new' footage unless there's a change of heart. For cost reasons, as with El Cid, they're mastering from 35mm elements rather than the 65mm material. The Rome in Madrid documentary should be included (though I don't know which voice-over they'll use: local TV stations had a choice of the same film with either James Mason or Sophia Loren narrating) and the trailer, though I've no idea whether they'll use the teaser trailer as well.
"This time it's no more Mr. Passive Resistance!"
I am sort of hoping they include ,as a non DVD extra,the Comic Book version of the film. I should have picked it up when I saw a copy of the orignal at a movie memoriblia store in the SF Bay Area a couple of years ago. I'll Teach You To Laugh At Something's That's Funny
Homer Simpson
More great info, Trevor. Since you are obviously so well informed on the subject, have you any idea as to the release dates of the other two Bronston epics, 55 DAYS AT PEKING and CIRCUS WORLD? I know they're expected this year but haven't heard any timetable.
Also, I noticed on the EL CID package that it's part of what Miramax is calling "The Miriam Collection". Any idea who the hell Miriam is? The Weinsteins' mother?
Sorry for the late reply. At present I've no idea on the release dates for those two or of any extras. It's probably too much to hope for Tiomkin's hilarious title song (and not So Little Time) that's only on the German version - complete with oompah-oompah band version of the main theme!
Miriam is indeed their mother - their dad was called Max, so you can see where Miramax came from.
"This time it's no more Mr. Passive Resistance!"
Ah, yes, Miramax: a real mom-and-pop operation. Never thought about the origins of "Miramax". At least they didn't call the new series the "Max Collection". God!
Never knew there was another song besides "So Little Time" in 55. That song was even on the VHS, and is okay, typical of its era, though rather ridiculous, or shall we say, unsuitable, for this kind of movie. But a German oompah tune sounds too awful to contemplate! Maybe it was only on the German version -- which begs the question, might there have been other national-centric songs on French, Italian, etc., versions? Doubt it, as versatile as Dimitri Tiomkin was.
"So Little Time", and the score itself, were the only two items from the film that received Oscar nominations. I would have thought at least some other areas, such as costumes, art direction and set decoration, that kind of thing, might have merited Oscar attention as well.
Oh well, no love songs on FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE...at least I think not! Well, not officially -- I think the CD of the soundtrack referred to one piece of music as a love theme, but no song attached.
Anyway, thank you for your kind and interesting replies!
Dimi was always pitching songs to producers - any chance for an Oscar and those Do Not Forsake Me style royalties! - and there is a horrendous choral dirge as play in and playout to the second half of the movie, The Fall of Love. And boy, is it awful, almost sung out of key with indecipherable lyrics.
I wondered about alternate songs as well - I only found out about the German one because the default setting on the German DVD was the German soundtrack and I forgot to switch over to the English track. Boy was I in for a shock...
I think it's bizarre than the big four of the Bronston epics (King of Kings, El Cid, 55 Days at Peking, The Fall of the Roman Empire) didn't get more nominations, but in the early 60s the genre was still looked down upon, and since Peking and Empire did most of their business overseas, they probably just fell off the voters' radar. There's also the possibility that as 'runaway productions' shot in Spain rather than Hollywood - something increasingly unpopular with the footsoldiers in the industry whose services were no longer required - there was just a natural animosity to them from the voters.
"This time it's no more Mr. Passive Resistance!"
Dimi was always pitching songs to producersI just got the CD of Tiomkin's score for Land of the Pharaohs, which included two bonus tracks - one instrumental, one including vocals - which were evidently intended as possible song releases. The attempt to turn a middle-eastern style wail into a foot-tapping popular number has to be heard to be believed. And if you want, you can hear it here: http://www.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm?ID=8333. (It's track 7 of disc 2 in the bar on the right.)
but in the early 60s the genre was still looked down uponAnd has anything really changed? While Gladiator may have been the Ben-Hur de nos jours in terms of critical approval, both films were exceptions to the general rule. English-speaking critics (as opposed, say, to the French) have always been very sniffy about epics and the less-than-epic "sword & sandal" movies (peplums). (The two are not identical, obviously, as the big epics needn't be set in ancient times, and sword & sandal films needn't be particularly "epic".)
I haven't got that CD (though I got thetwo previous ones of, ahem, dubious provenance), but i can imagine it already. He also did a Western-style arrangement of the maintheme from Pharaohs - maybe he was hoping to get Frankie Laine or Tex Ritter to do a cover?
Snobbery probably plays a big part in it, but also it has to be faced that the epic genre was rarely one that taxed the greycells until the Sixties - De Mille, King Richard and the Crusaders, The Prodigal and Jon Hall, Maria Montez and Tony Curtis were pretty much the hokum level it went for unti the "thinking man's epics" of the 60s and early 70s. Unless it was a major director with a serious reputation - something like David and Bathsheba, which downplays the action - critics would just regard them as dumb crowd pleasers.
Another key factor as far as America goes is that they're other countries' history and other countries' myths - there isn't that sense of belonging to those stories, which is why even now epics like Troy, The Last Samurai, King Arthur, Kingdom of Heaven and Alexander regularly do 75-80% of their total business overseas where they're more likely to connect with local audiences (though critically they weren't much better regarded overseas). Even at the height of the roadshow period, an era when overseas only accounted forathird of theaveragefilm's total takings (now it's around 65%), they tended to make more money internationally than in the US. That may also be linked to thefact that generally international audiences are more comfortable with downbeat endings where epic heroes fail (as they usually do in most myths) - the epics that do fare well in the US, critically and commercially, tend to be about winners, and are often, like Gladiator or Braveheart, pitched squarely as revenge movies.
"This time it's no more Mr. Passive Resistance!"
Apparently "55 Days" and "Circus World" will be out from The Weinstein Company before the end of 2008,but no date yet and no world on their being Two DVD SE's.
BTW both are available on Non Regional Asian versions.
I will upgrade "Fall" and "55 Days" from the Asian versions I now have,but might not for "Circus World",which is by far the weakest of the Bronston Epics.
The only reason I picked up Circus Worldon DVD for Five bucks plus postage was an irrational streak of being a completest I have.
I'll Teach You To Laugh At Something's That's Funny
Homer Simpson
Where did you get the CD for "Land of the Pharaohs"? Are there other Tiomkin soundtracks available? Thanks!
shareThere are a couple of bootlegs, but the official release can be bought here:
http://www.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm?ID=8333
"This time it's no more Mr. Passive Resistance!"