MovieChat Forums > Hud (1963) Discussion > Best Actress or Best Supporting Actress?

Best Actress or Best Supporting Actress?


Well, Pat Neal must be the lady who won the Best Actress Oscar having spent the least amount of time on screen. Still, good movie, great performances by the four main actors.

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Yep... and the only female part in the film of any note.
As it often happens with acting awards.... It's the 'Lead' female part, therefore they get put into the 'Best Lead Actress' category... though in reality, it's a supporting part (see Louise Fletcher in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest). Back in that day, a major and established actress like Patricia Neal would never be considered as a 'supporting' anything.

The 'rule' has a lot of exceptions too. Take To Kill a Mockingbird. Mary Badham, as Scout, is undeniably a 'Lead' in that movie. I'd venture to say she may even have more screen time than Gregory Peck. The entire movie is essentially about her (and her relationship with Brother and Dad). Yet, a
newcomer like Mary Badham, and a child, is not going to be considered seriously for 'Best Actress'... but can win in the supporting category.
Other perfect examples.... Patty Duke in The Miracle Worker. Why is she considered 'supporting' to Anne Bancroft. If the Oscars were truly equitable, both Anne and Patty would have had 'Best Actress' nominations.
Also, Tatum O'Neal in Paper Moon. Supporting? hunh???? she is the star and core and center of that movie.
Oh well, awards... actresses... producers.... PR guys... go figure.

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I fully agree, even if Pat Neal's career was somewhat languishing at the time and she had taken up roles that were, indeed, supporting as in "Breakfast in Tiffany's". I guess Hollywood decided to award her for all the Gary Cooper story and her somewhat "tough" life. It's amazing how miraculously she recovered after her serious stroke in 1965, came back strong with "The Subject Was Roses" and is still alive and kicking nowadays.

Many people argued Anthony Hopkins' or Nicole Kidman's roles in "Silence..." and "The Hours" respectively were also supporting. As for the other way around, apart from the great examples you mention, some other evident examples were Timothy Hutton in "Ordinary People" (a newcomer who could not be considered the leading actor in the movie), Jessica Lange in "Tootsie" (the easiest way to award her for "Frances" without depriving Meryl Streep of the Oscar), Peggy Ashcroft in "A Passage To India"...

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[deleted]

Well written eddy and I agree. I guess also the Academy sometimes has a fine line with what is supporting and what is lead. But some young actors and actresses have been overlooked and sometimes I think it is the case of we still have some older boys or girls to take care of.

If you ever see A Tree Grows in Brooklyn you will be seeing one of the greatest performances by Peggy Ann Garner who was 13 at the time and she is really the lead role and in nearly every scene of the movie. She didn't even get nominated for that great performance in either catagory which was a shame even though the Academy gave her a special award. It is the same case with a young Haley Mills in Pollyanna. This was a great performance and she was really the lead role and the center of the movie as Peggy was plus she was in nearly every scene. I think she also got a special award but I feel she was also deserving of an oscar nomination in the lead role as Peggy was yet like Peggy no nomination. In fact she was great in the original Parent Trap in which she played the twins.

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I think it's one of the finest performances ever to win the best actress oscar - but most certainly a supporting role. As mentioned above, it would have been almost unthinkable for a star of Neal's magnitude to have been nominated in support back then, but her win says more about the lack of good leading female roles at the time.

Paul Newman and Brandon de Wilde (who I'm sure must have been pushed, unsuccessfully as it turned out, for a supporting nomination) were the leads in Hud, and both richly deserved best actor nominations. Neal and Melvyn Douglas supported them (beautifully).

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Neal herself has said that Alma was more of a supporting role. Anyway, it was a brilliant performance and I'm just really glad that she got an Oscar for it.

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Apparently you think an exception was made two years earlier, when stars of the calibre of Judy Garland and Montgomery Clift were nominated in the supporting category.

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it would have been almost unthinkable for a star of Neal's magnitude to have been nominated in support


I wouldn't exactly say that. Jack Nicholson was nominated (and won) for best supporting actor for "Terms of Endearment" in the early 1980's. And of course he had already been a huge star for years. In fact he had already won Best Actor for Cuckoo's Nest.

I remember around that time Roger Ebert or some movie critic saying he thought it was smart for a big star like Nicholson to take a supporting role now and then.

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Yes, attitudes changed somewhere around the late 70s/early 80s. Nicholson was, I guess, one of the first huge stars nominated in support. Previously it had only really occurred in a handful of extreme cases (no-one could realistically claim that Clift and Garland in Judgement at Nuremberg were leading roles).

I tend to agree with Ebert's thought on the issue, although these days it has been taken to extremes. This year alone we had two of the supporting actress nominees, Rooney Mara and Alicia Vikander, unquestionably leads in their respective films, taking away slots from genuine supporting roles.

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Great performance, but definitely supporting. I mean, she only had a few scenes - I think 2 in the last half of the film (one in which she didn't even speak).

Best Actor 2006: Oscar nominee Ryan Gosling - Half Nelson

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She was great in this film and deserved the Oscar, Supporting or Best or whatever. I loved the way she made you realize that she wanted Hud but wouldn't budge because she'd been there before with her ex--fine, fine acting.

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Today's stars seem to be less concerned about which category they're nominated in - examples are Meryl Streep, Renee Zellweger, Cate Blanchett, and Kate Winslet. They seem more concerned that the role be a good one and worth their efforts.

In the past, actors' insistence on being placed in the Lead category usually cost them an Oscar - Anne Baxter insisted on being considered for Best Actress for ALL ABOUT EVE (after all, she did play the title role) - the result not only was a loss for her but for Bette Davis. Rosalind Russell had managed "co-starring" billing in PICNIC for her performance as Rosemary - it was decidedly a supporting role, but Russell refused to be considered in the supporting category. Although it may have cost her an Oscar, it did enable her to retain her "leading lady" status and gave her more power to negotiate her next vehicle, AUNTIE MAME.

"If I'd been a ranch they'd have named me the 'Bar-None'."

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Well, the same with Louise Rainer in "The Great Ziegfeld". I thought it was a very supporting role because she was only in it for the first half of the movie and gone the full next half...and it was a lame performance.

WARNING: I'M SEXY!

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I was surprised myself when I found out she won for best LEAD. It is clearly a supporting performance. However it is such an unaffected, strong performance that I'm happy it got recognized at all by the Academy.

"I'm f'ing busy-or vice versa" -Dorothy Parker

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Anne Bancroft in the Graduate gives a classic performance that like Neal's doesn't occupy much screen time. Tatum O'Neal who won supporting actress for Paper Moon has more screen time than either Neal or Bancroft. In Training Day Ethan Hawke has the larger role in terms of screen time but was nominated for supporting actor while Denzel Washington won best actor. Lee Marvin even in a dual role doesn't have much screen time in Cat Ballou for which he won Best Actor and ditto Anthony Hopkins in The Silence of the Lambs and Brando as The Godfather. Brando's role even in a 3 hour movie is clealy supporting while Pacino as Michael Corleone has the lead and was nominated in the supporting actor category.

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Another one is Jamie Foxx in Collateral. He is unquestionably the lead but with a nom (and win) for Ray already in the bag, the shoved him in the supporting category. Cruise should've been nominated for the supporting role.

It really happens all the time. Before say the 90s, it was mostly supporting being made into lead because big stars didn't want to be thought of as lesser. But now it's more common for lead performances to be made supporting.

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It really happens all the time. Before say the 90s, it was mostly supporting being made into lead because big stars didn't want to be thought of as lesser. But now it's more common for lead performances to be made supporting.


Like Christoph Waltz last year winning for Supporting Actor for Django Unchained and Philip Seymour Hoffman also nominated in Supporting for The Master even though both were clearly the co-leads of Jamie Foxx and Joaquin Phoenix, respectively.

Also, three years ago, Hailee Steinfeld was the main character in True Grit, but since she was only 14 she was put in Supporting. Meanwhile, her co-star Jeff Daniels was nominated for Lead Actor despite having less screen time than Steinfeld.

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[deleted]

No, at that point it becomes an ensemble where they all support each other. But that's only if they all have equal screen time. Neal only has 25 minutes of screen time in a 112-minute film (1 hour, 52 minutes). People think that every film has to have a male/female lead, and since she's the only female with considerable screen time, by default they think she must be lead.

The truth is, Hud is the only true lead. He's the title character, the character with the most screen time, and the character the story revolved around. Homer, Lonnie, and Alma support him in his scenes. The rest of the characters are peripheral.

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