MovieChat Forums > Doctor Who (1963) Discussion > Just saw 'Time and the Rani'...and found...

Just saw 'Time and the Rani'...and found it okay!

posted 8 years ago by sanddragon939
26 replies | jump to latest

Surprisingly enough, considering the sheer negativity that surrounds this serial.

Is it a worthy intro to one of the best Doctors of the classic era? No. Does it stack up well against the likes of, say, 'Spearhead in Space' or 'Castrolava'? No.

But is it just the horrible piece of trash that everyone says it is?

There I have to disagree.

The serial definitely has some entertainment value. The Rani is a great villain and Kate O Mara's performance is as masterful as it was in 'The Mark of the Rani' (granted, its been a while since I saw that one). I especially loved the scenes where she impersonated Mel and tried to manipulate the Doctor. Indeed, Rani-as-Mel came across as a better companion than Mel herself! (though this is the first time I'm watching Mel as a companion so I really don't have a good reference for her...I found her intolerable in the first two chapters, and then she became a somewhat bland but tolerable companion in the latter two chapters).

The Rani's plot, as crazy as it was, didn't sound THAT crazy by Doctor Who standards. The idea could have been executed WAY better but somewhere amidst the mumbo-jumbo was the makings of a decent plot. I think a LOT more could have been done with the idea of abducting Einstien and other iconic scientists from their own eras to use them in a villanous scheme.

The Lakertians were garish but otherwise not bad looking as an alien species. And I think the moral conflict Beyas faced about collaborating with the Rani or face the extermination of his race was handled fairly well.

As far as the regeneration goes, yes it was abrupt but I think they did a decent enough job under the circumstances. McCoy turns in a decent enough performance of the Seventh Doctor, who's persona obviously isn't defined yet as the great chessmaster he'll eventually become. Seven in his debut serial comes across as being generally confused and crazy...a bit like Four in his debut - no defined personality yet but all round a great generic 'Doctor' persona that makes you like the actor and leaves you wanting more. I could see shades of Troughton in McCoy's portrayal here...and there were times when he actually reminded me of Matt Smith's Eleventh Doctor (who I've often felt owes a lot to McCoy).

So to conclude, Time and the Rani isn't a great serial, but by no means is it as terrible as I was led to believe for years.

Formerly sn939

[–] paulbeardsley 8 years ago

But the true nadir of Classic Who is the next serial.

So this is permanence, love's shattered pride.
What once was innocence, turned on its side.

[–] Man_in_a_Suitcase 8 years ago

"Paradise Towers" is definitely better than Colin Baker stories like "The Twin Dilemma" and "Timelash".

Were you there to watch the earth be scorched?
Did you stand beside the spectral torch?

[–] paulbeardsley 8 years ago

I respectfully (but vehemently) disagree.

So this is permanence, love's shattered pride.
What once was innocence, turned on its side.

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

yeah Paradise Towers is alright but I much prefer timelash (weird puppet ambassador aside)

https://soundcloud.com/rhythm-n-weird

New song "Where was I?"

[–] ant-mac 8 years ago

If there's one thing that takes me out of the moment with TIMELASH, it's not the Bandril ambassador appearing on that small monitor screen.

It's those weird *beep* androids with their weird *beep* voices.

ant-mac

[–] pferreira86 8 years ago

yeah Paradise Towers is alright but I much prefer timelash (weird puppet ambassador aside)

Totally agree.

[–] apostasia 8 years ago

So to conclude, Time and the Rani isn't a great serial, but by no means is it as terrible as I was led to believe for years.

I've nothing against Time and the Rani, particularly. Is it great? No, clearly not. But it's entertaining and diverting enough. It might not be high up in the ranks of all-time Doctor Who stories, but I'd still rather watch it than most of what's currently on tv these days.

But then, I'm old enough not to care if people catch me watching it. It seems to embarrass the young 'uns. I've lost track of the number of anecdotes along the lines of, 'I was watching Time and the Rani secretly on my own and then a sudden, unexpected flashmob of everyone I've ever met in my entire life magically appeared in my front room, pointed at the screen and looked at me horrified, and now I've got no friends and have crushing self-confidence issues. Curse Sylvester in a blond wig!'

Hmmm. Perhaps I'd just never considered that sort of Time and the Rani anecdote as a metaphor for masturbation before...

Just a painted face on a trip down suicide row

[–] paulbeardsley 8 years ago

I was more embarrassed to have my father and older brother in the room when the Kangs were chanting "Cowardly cutlet!" over and over again, or the disembodied voice kept announcing it was "Hungry." I got a lot of criticism for watching infantile TV.

So this is permanence, love's shattered pride.
What once was innocence, turned on its side.

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

I actually quite enjoy Time and the Rani, but then (aside from Paradise Towers) I enjoy Sylv's first season in general... none of the shows are really stone cold classics, but I don't find them to be terrible either. yes the giant brain looks a bit silly and Bonnie Langford is there but still, the tertraps are cool, I quite like the interplay between McCoy and Mara and I thought the story worked pretty well.

I was more embarrassed to have my father and older brother in the room when the Kangs were chanting "Cowardly cutlet!" over and over again, or the disembodied voice kept announcing it was "Hungry." I got a lot of criticism for watching infantile TV.

That reminds me of when I was watching season 7 of new who (which I really enjoyed) and my flatmate happened to come home one night when I was watching 'the crimson horror', the end of which was a bit hammy for my tastes... I felt kind of silly

https://soundcloud.com/rhythm-n-weird

New song "Where was I?"

[–] paulbeardsley 8 years ago

That reminds me of when I was watching season 7 of new who (which I really enjoyed) and my flatmate happened to come home one night when I was watching 'the crimson horror', the end of which was a bit hammy for my tastes... I felt kind of silly

I thought TCH was quite good for a Gatiss script, apart from the scene in which a rocket is launched from inside a chimney or tower, and nobody inside the tower is affected - even slightly - by the exhaust. Maybe that bit wasn't in the original script, but if it was, has Gatiss never been at the back of a garage when a car has driven out?

So what was the hammy bit? It's been a while since I last saw it.

So this is permanence, love's shattered pride.
What once was innocence, turned on its side.

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

So what was the hammy bit? It's been a while since I last saw it.

I forget the exact dialogue but it was the scene where the mother suddenly takes her daughter hostage, and the red leech thing

https://soundcloud.com/rhythm-n-weird

New song "Where was I?"

[–] paulbeardsley 8 years ago

Okay. I'll look out for it next time I watch it.

So this is permanence, love's shattered pride.
What once was innocence, turned on its side.

[–] strawberry_switchblade 8 years ago

I've lost track of the number of anecdotes along the lines of, 'I was watching Time and the Rani secretly on my own and then a sudden, unexpected flashmob of everyone I've ever met in my entire life magically appeared in my front room, pointed at the screen and looked at me horrified, and now I've got no friends and have crushing self-confidence issues.

Well it's not so implausible. Don't forget McCoy's first season was shown alongside Coronation Street and a lot of families still only had the one television. So if the family were watching Coronation Street, a young fan had little choice but to try and watch the latest Who episodes at a friend's house instead....

...and then would have to spend a long time after explaining in embarrassment to their friend that the show really isn't normally like that.

Paul McGann IS the War Doctor in my fic
http://dalekwars.blogspot.co.uk/

[–] Dylan-Potter 8 years ago

"...and then would have to spend a long time after explaining in embarrassment to their friend that the show really isn't normally like that."

The thing is though, it was 1987-it wasn't 1988 yet (the year of improvement). At that point the show was often like that.

[–] strawberry_switchblade 8 years ago

I just found it very pat, sterile and insipid in a way the show had rarely been before (so I can only imagine how much more disappointing it was for fans at the time who were hoping this new season would be good enough to leave Grade with egg on his face), and frankly the characterisation of McCoy was just depressingly poor (okay he began to kick a bit of ass in the final part but it was too little too late).

I can think of few other debuts that this utterly didn't inspire any hope for where the show would go from here. Everything about it was a confirmation of how much better off we were just clinging to our memories of how good the show was back in 1977.

It did successfully wipe the slate clean of the previous mess of the Saward era, but it just felt like they'd somehow thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

Paul McGann IS the War Doctor in my fic
http://dalekwars.blogspot.co.uk/

[–] RockinRickyRialto 8 years ago

And you weren't high?

If you must blink, do it now.

[–] Dylan-Potter 8 years ago

I suppose after all the hype it gets as one of the worst serials of all time, you might have expected worse than what you ended up with (on the other hand I got worse than I expected).

In another example, I have a friend (idiot) whom was let down by Michael Powell's Peeping Tom, because I hyped it so much for him. It happens.

[–] pferreira86 8 years ago

The one thing this story has going for it is the visual effects. They are fantastic for the time. A shame not more time/money was spent on sets and and the script. I feel Delta and the Bannermen is highly underrated. It's not supposed to be taken too seriously.

[–] GladysOver 8 years ago

It's not too bad is it?

The FX are noticeably higher quality than what had gone before, the cliched quarry location contributes particularly well to the story's atmosphere (rather than merely being a convenient location to depict alien worlds as with most other quarry-bound stories), model shots ain't half bad and the Tetraps look pretty good for the time.

Unfortunately though the problems quickly stack up too, particularly the stupid subplot of the Rani dressing up as Mel of which was clearly conceived predominately to provide 'intriguing' publicity photos (probably JNT's 'creative' contribution ), McCoy's Doctor's persona being all over the bloody place (to be fair it was his first story of course and the season is notorious for the uneven writing and chaos behind the scenes but still) and the main plot being utter bonkers, et al....

Not brilliant then but as undemanding entertainment, as a spectacle, certainly not an outright disaster either thus perfectly watchable.

[–] lawrenceconwayvulcan 8 years ago

Somewhat off topic I wonder if Dr Strange has a copy of this?

[–] pferreira86 8 years ago

It's not too bad is it?

The FX are noticeably higher quality than what had gone before, the cliched quarry location contributes particularly well to the story's atmosphere (rather than merely being a convenient location to depict alien worlds as with most other quarry-bound stories), model shots ain't half bad and the Tetraps look pretty good for the time.

More than ok. It's got an excellent as you say use of a quarry, great model work, groundbreaking CGI not just in the title sequence but throughout the story, digital colour grading for the sky as well as an early use of digital replication.

McCoy's Doctor's persona being all over the bloody place

To be fair he was still recovering from his regeneration, he totally mistook The Rani for Mel really easily.

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

To be fair he was still recovering from his regeneration, he totally mistook The Rani for Mel really easily.

this seems to have been another idea of JNT's. The doctor's regenerations would shake him up a bit in the past but it was really from Davison onwards that they got into this whole thing of the doctor taking an entire story to get his sh^t together

https://soundcloud.com/rhythm-n-weird

New song "Where was I?"

[–] pferreira86 8 years ago

this seems to have been another idea of JNT's. The doctor's regenerations would shake him up a bit in the past but it was really from Davison onwards that they got into this whole thing of the doctor taking an entire story to get his sh^t together

10 and 12 were like that as well. I don't mind, it's their premiere story.

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

exactly, when they should be making their first impression! Look at Tom, he was a bit confused... well that didn't change much actually  but then he took charge within the first episode. Pertwee was bed-bound a bit but even in the first episode he's clearly making plans and is back on his feet in fine form by ep 2

https://soundcloud.com/rhythm-n-weird

New song "Where was I?"

[–] pferreira86 8 years ago

I think it depends on the Doctor and as stated before it's not limited to the JNT era.

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

Yes but it was started in the JNT era and you kind of get the impression that the nu who writers have taken their cue from him

https://soundcloud.com/rhythm-n-weird

New song "Where was I?"