MovieChat Forums > Doctor Who (1963) Discussion > The Five ( ok, 4) Doctors

The Five ( ok, 4) Doctors

posted 8 years ago by raventhom
31 replies | jump to latest

So, Tom Baker, deciding he was better than the rest, having just completed his term as the Doctor, didn't want to associate with the others.
So, watching this years later, I get the feeling how conceited he must have been.
I absolutely Loved this one. Seeing Carole Ann Ford as Susan was my biggest joy, She was brilliant! I so, wish they would have brought her back to travel w/ her "younger" grandfather. Also, Lis Sladen, and knowing her untimely death makes this even more enjoyable, seeing her w/ the Doctor as Sarah Jane one more time. Yes, I know she appears later in New Who also. She sure would have rather been w/ Tom though.
I guess I like Jon much better myself. He just takes over, He IS the Doctor.
Richard Hurndal, was excellent as Bill, he had the walk and the mannerisms down, even though it's said he didn't work on that or try to imitate Bill,
Watching all the Doctor's together in this one, worked quite well. Patrick w/ the Brigadier was also great, even though he had aged, he still was the Doctor, all in all, I will more than likely watch it again and again, Of course having seen Shada, I recognized the scenes Tom and Lalla were in. Too bad Wendy (Zoe) didn't get more face time, as she is one of my all time favorite companions.

[–] frosted_one 8 years ago

I know 5 doctors went through several writers and story ideas was the story that actually came to be the episode ever involve doctor 4 in draft form? Any details about how the plot differed ever released?

[–] old-georgieboy 8 years ago

This is a good read http://www.shannonsullivan.com/drwho/serials/6k.html

Balotelli...Aguerooooo! I swear you will never see anything like this ever again!

[–] frosted_one 8 years ago

Interesting read, I knew Bob Holmes had tried a script first off but didn't know how many drafts it had been through attempting to get a full cast involved.

[–] Dr Wily 8 years ago

I saw The Five Doctors about 10 years before I had ever even heard of Shada. So, I just always thought it was written that way on purpose. It never occurred to me that Tom just didn't want to be in it.

Given the troubled production history of The Five Doctors, it's actually somewhat amazing at how good it is on screen. It was the fifth Doctor Who story I ever saw and it's one of my favorites. It's one of the few non Dalek or Cybermen stories (It's not really a Cyberman story despite the fact that they're the monster with the most appearances. And it's not a Dalek story since it's in it for like less than 5 minutes.) I have on DVD. And I bought both the Special Edition and the 25th Anniversary Edition because I prefer the standard edition over the Special Edition. Probably because I never saw the Special Edition until the DVD release and "grew up" on the standard edition.

[–] strawberry_switchblade 8 years ago

It's typical of the Davison era's irredentist nature when it comes to constantly reaching for the show's past golden age. And yet it's quite wonderful for that and does that approach right. Only in this era could this story exist and I'm at least glad of that it does.

Paul McGann IS the War Doctor in my fic
http://dalekwars.blogspot.co.uk/

[–] louiseculmer 8 years ago

Tom Baker had played Dr Who for a long time and didn't want to do it any more. He was tired of it. There is absolutely no reason why he should have felt obliged to return to the role.

[–] raventhom 8 years ago

Except that in 20 years, looking back, it looks as though he considered himself above the rest. Having the longest time, as the Doctor, I feel he owed it to the franchise. But thats my opinion.

[–] louiseculmer 8 years ago

i don't think an actor owes it to anyone to play a part he doesn't want to. He'd done 7 years as the doctor and felt it was time to move on. most actors get tired of playing the same part eventually, after all none of the others stayed in it as long as he did.

[–] frosted_one 8 years ago

I'd imagine the show owed him more given it's success over the time he carried the lead role.

[–] raventhom 8 years ago

My point is, this was a one time shot, and being with the other 4, a special.
I get that you probably favor Tom over the others, but I am looking at this from a vantage point of seeing them in order years later. So, that ONE missing from the five shows his immaturity.
Not a matter of "owing" it to anyone but the audience, but he didn't care.

[–] Culfy 8 years ago

Sorry but the idea that fans have that actors are beholden to them to do everything they demand shows the fans' immaturity. An actor's job is to do the part to the best of their ability for the time they are contracted to. No more
The fans' reward is to get to watch a tv series they enjoy - no more.

1 mark deducted for not being Curse of Fenric. Insert 'The' into previous if you are Ant-Mac

[–] timmdoolen 8 years ago

I think people are missing Raven's point. Obviously Tom was making what he thought was the best decision for him at the time. But since then, he has said he regrets not participating in the Special. So in the long run, looking back now, I think most of us can agree that it would have been nice if he had swallowed whatever reluctance/pride and just joined the gang for some fun (for whatever reason).

Tom also did some conventions with the other Doctors around that same time, and he insisted on appearing separately and being treated differently than everyone else. So I do think there is some validity to the feeling that he was a bit above it all by that point.

[–] raventhom 8 years ago

Thank you, That was my point

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

at the time of the silver anniversary (1988 i guess) we were just starting on Peter's era, so it was kind of a weird situation, we'd been watching everything in order and then suddenly to celebrate the 25th they screened the five doctors... so there was that weird thing of "who's that ginger dude? wow! look at Tegan's hair!" then they also screened revelation of the daleks and silver nemesis so that was kind of a 'spoiler' of what was to come.

But yes I like the five doctors, i'd rate it above the three doctors and the two doctors but below day of the doctor

https://soundcloud.com/rhythm-n-weird

New song "Where was I?"

[–] mail-81278 8 years ago

The use of Shada (again) in The Five-ish Doctors Reboot from 2013 was hilarious. I've watched that thing probably half a dozen times, it's easily the best thing to come out out the 50th anniversary.

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

when did they use Shada in the five(ish) doctors?

https://soundcloud.com/rhythm-n-weird

New song "Where was I?"

[–] paulbeardsley 8 years ago

I'd like to know that too. I do vaguely remember thinking, "Hey, that's from Shada!" but I've no idea which bit.

So this is permanence, love's shattered pride.
What once was innocence, turned on its side.

[–] mail-81278 8 years ago

Not sure how you could miss it, it's the same clip they used in The Five Doctors. That's the joke.

[–] paulbeardsley 8 years ago

Oh yes.

(A lot has happened since 2013.)

So this is permanence, love's shattered pride.
What once was innocence, turned on its side.

[–] timmdoolen 8 years ago

If memory serves, the clip in "Five(ish) Doctors Reboot" is quite a bit shorter than the one used in "The Five Doctors." Sneeze twice and you might miss it.

[–] pferreira86 8 years ago

Your memory serves you right, you are correct. 

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

Ah fair enough, if I'm honest I watched 'the five(ish)' doctors once and then kind of forgot about it. Sorry but it's my least favourite of the 50th celebration productions... it's fun, but I enjoyed Day/Night of the doctor and an Adventure in space and time more

https://soundcloud.com/rhythm-n-weird

New song "Where was I?"

[–] NotAmyMerrick 8 years ago

I've never understood why they chose that clip of him on the river Instead of the scene of Tom actually running around the town away from the balloon thing (With the timescoop in it's place of course).

It's always seemed such a bizarre choice when they had the other scene which fit far better with what the other doctors did.

Maybe one day i'll fan edit it.

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

True, if I remember correctly, they even had to go and specially shoot the shot where the doctor actually gets taken by the timescoop

https://soundcloud.com/rhythm-n-weird

New song "Where was I?"

[–] pferreira86 8 years ago

True, if I remember correctly, they even had to go and specially shoot the shot where the doctor actually gets taken by the timescoop

No they didn't as far as I'm aware. What they did for the Special Edition ending was reuse that shot to have the Fourth Doctor brake out of the Matrix instead of using the original shot of the Doctor and Romana escaping in the Tardis.

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

isn't there a shot where the doctor is shown to be overbalancing followed by a shot of the empty punt drifting along?

https://soundcloud.com/rhythm-n-weird

New song "Where was I?"

[–] mrmoo2001 8 years ago

So, Tom Baker, deciding he was better than the rest, having just completed his term as the Doctor, didn't want to associate with the others.

Having played the Doctor for 7 years he was horribly typecast.

Now, I'm not a mind reader, especially when it comes to thoughts that happened before I was even a twinkle in the milkmans' eye, but one could reason that he might not have been keen to jump back into playing the Doctor at the first opportunity when his long-term association with the show had made it very hard for him to find work. It's only natural that he'd want to move on. Or maybe he was more bitter about betting typecast. Perhaps he was angry with himself for being so stupid as to stay for seven *beep* years. Who knows?

Then there were the disagreements with JNT. No doubt a clash of the egos thing. Either way it is a shame because I would have quite liked to see how his ego clashed with that of Jon Pertwee.

Take them to the security kitchen!

[–] raventhom 8 years ago

precisely...

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

Then there were the disagreements with JNT. No doubt a clash of the egos thing. Either way it is a shame because I would have quite liked to see how his ego clashed with that of Jon Pertwee.

Oh I think it would have been fascinating to see how he would have matched up with all/any of them, but... I hate to say it, but I could see him being something of a disruptive element. He tended to change scripts and add extra bits of action, I could totally imagine him trying to steal scenes from the others and them all just really resenting the hell out of him for it.

But yeah, if done right, I could imagine some quite good snappy dialogue between him and Peter

https://soundcloud.com/coin-sides

New song "Breathless Love"

[–] pferreira86 8 years ago

isn't there a shot where the doctor is shown to be overbalancing followed by a shot of the empty punt drifting along?

That wasn't added in later, it was in the original Shada footage.

[–] gavin_70 8 years ago

Also I think there was an element of him feeling that he was "the" Doctor and that appearing with the others was a bit beneath him. I also understood that his offer to resign at the end of 7 years was only half-hearted and he was expecting to be talked out of it and was a tad miffed that the show had continued without him.