MovieChat Forums > Doctor Who (1963) Discussion > Silver Nemesis

Silver Nemesis

posted 8 years ago by raventhom
26 replies | jump to latest

Another nice 3 parter, this time w/ Cyber-men.
The Doctor and Ace, have Germans, and another foe this time.
A few good lines, some by Dolores Grey, who was only used for a very short time. I would have liked more from her, but I gather she was a bigger star than I knew of
The Sorceress (Fiona Walker ) was very good in her part, and Ace, walking on the bridge high above was braver than I ever would have been I rather think w/o that leather jacket re mindful of the 50's I grew up with, I would like her better.
Anyway, this Doctor isn't as bad as I had read from others, his serials are shorter, and not as well written in my book, Oh I read that Sylv, actually was a bodyguard for the Stones??? He doesn't look like that type at his size, now Jon Pertwee....
One more serial in season 25...

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

Pertwee looks more like he would have been a bodyguard for Liberace

https://soundcloud.com/coin-sides

New song "Breathless Love"

[–] frosted_one 8 years ago

Let the 25th party begin http://i3.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article9923088.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/WA5614970.jpg

Yes it was good back in the day that Cybermen were actually cyber-men rather than robots mindlessly saying 'delete-delete-delete'. They need to undo that in the new series somehow.

I rather think w/o that leather jacket re mindful of the 50's I grew up with, I would like her better.

Ace wore a bomber jacket though not leather

[–] raventhom 8 years ago

I still didn't like it

[–] mindbait 8 years ago

Let the 25th party begin http://i3.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article9923088.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/WA5614970.jpg

That is great!  having a shorter TARDIS crew always worked better with the big aliens like Cybermen and Ice Warriors so they could tower over the doctor and his companions

https://soundcloud.com/coin-sides

New song "a tear in the skin of the world"

[–] Chris12955 8 years ago

Did you catch the chess game? It will be important next season. This serial played out better with the cut scenes(another four parter trimmed to three.) It might be hard to get a hold of, but they released this on VHS in the US with the scenes added back in as one uninterrupted movie.

Ace, walking on the bridge high above was braver than I ever would have been

They were up quite high and that walkway wasn't very safe. This is before there were safety standards in the UK for shows like this. Sophie easily could have died there. Actually, she nearly did the next year in the serial Battlefield. Sylvester McCoy saved her life during a stunt gone wrong.

Anyway, this Doctor isn't as bad as I had read from others

Who said he was bad? We need to teach these people how awesome he is. I love Sylvester McCoy as the Doctor. That question mark umbrella really works unlike the other question marks John Nathan Turner forced on Doctors. He plays it well, has a solid screen presence, and he has a great rapport with Sophie Aldred.

[–] raventhom 8 years ago

You can tell he and Sophie are friends, I do wish they had allowed her to be 21, or even 19, she does not look close to 16, and that age just bugs me
Sylv isn't my favorite Doctor, but he is a good one. It could be, the 80s were not one of my favorite era's

[–] frosted_one 8 years ago

Was it mentioned onscreen that Ace was 16 or just part of the character profile? She was 25 when she signed up and maybe 19-20 would be believable. If it had been said (in Dragonfire) she was 16 it makes the flirting with Mike in RotD really weird.

[–] raventhom 8 years ago

on screen, she first lies then admits to being 16, this bothered me

[–] ant-mac 8 years ago

"on screen, she first lies then admits to being 16, this bothered me"

Girls do that in the pub every Friday and Saturday night.

ant-mac

[–] raventhom 8 years ago

Oh? Huh! I must confess that it's been a really long time since a) I have been chatting up young girls in a pub, of any age, and b) Actually I can't even remember the last time I was even in a pub.
But I do get your point.

[–] ant-mac 8 years ago

"I must confess that it's been a really long time since a) I have been chatting up young girls in a pub, of any age,"

Snap!

I went a few times in my youth, but I never really caught the bug. I prefer a small group of close friends to a building full of pissed and possibly violent strangers.

"and b) Actually I can't even remember the last time I was even in a pub."

I do.

The day we interred my mother's ashes alongside my father's ashes in the local cemetery. My cousin, his wife, my son and I stopped off at a local pub for a quiet drink in acknowledgement of the occasion.

ant-mac

[–] raventhom 8 years ago

May she Rest In Peace. My Mom passed away back in 2007, I was fortunate to have both my grown children with me.

[–] Chris12955 8 years ago

You can tell he and Sophie are friends, I do wish they had allowed her to be 21, or even 19, she does not look close to 16, and that age just bugs me

Well, Matthew Waterhouse was the last teen actor, and we saw how that worked out. Again why Ray would have worked out better, her character was older.

Sylv isn't my favorite Doctor, but he is a good one.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to insinuate he was a favorite Doctor of yours. I just wanted to joke around about the McCoy haters you encountered. 

It could be, the 80s were not one of my favorite era's

Yeah, most Who fans agree that the best era in Classic Who was the 1970's. Personally, my top ten seasons were, 5, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 24, 25, and 26. You may notice six of those were in the 1970's. Most fans will tell you something similar as to having a majority of their favorite Classic Who years being in the 1970's. Don't mistake my favorite season for my favorite Doctor though. Patrick Troughton is my favorite Doctor, even if only one of his years is on that top ten list.

Out of curiosity, which is your favorite Doctor from the classic series?

[–] raventhom 8 years ago

when i finish the last season, i plan on doing a short run down on the doctors and companions

[–] Chris12955 8 years ago

I look forward to hearing it.

[–] paulbeardsley 8 years ago

Who said he was bad?

Me, for one.

We need to teach these people how awesome he is.

Good luck with that.

I love Sylvester McCoy as the Doctor.

That's fine. Each to their own.

he has a great rapport with Sophie Aldred.

I'll give you that. Not the rest, though.

So this is permanence, love's shattered pride.
What once was innocence, turned on its side.

[–] Dr Wily 8 years ago

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of this story, but I wish the DVD had contained an extra disc with the extended version on it. I have to keep my VHS copy because its scenes, though included as extra deleted scenes on the DVD release, are not available as one long episode.

[–] Chris12955 8 years ago

Silver Nemesis is my least favorite McCoy story after Time and the Rani, so I can see where you are coming from.

[–] Dr Wily 8 years ago

It's my least favorite Cyberman story.

My main problem with the story it sets up too many questions it never bothered to answer. It's the 25th anniversary story, so it should set up a few mysteries, but if it's going to do that, it should answer them. And we never got proper answers to those questions in the series proper so it's really just a wasted opportunity.

I also think the neo-Nazi angle is under utilized. It's briefly touched on, I think, that they view the Cybermen as the giants. Or was it the Titans? I'm not up on my Germanic folklore. Anyway, since Nazis were all about being a superior race, it would have been interesting had the story more touched on the angle of them actually encountering a superior race.

Remembrance Of The Daleks, for me, would have made for a far better 25th anniversary story.

[–] frosted_one 8 years ago

Yes RotD would have made a better anniversary however they wanted Cybermen given 25=silver. At least it has actual Cybermen not tin cans and a brain scooper.

I think you might be over analysing the Cybermen / Nazi dealing, the Nazi leader just wanted to Cybermen to do some heavy lifting for him given he lost his troops.

What were the questions you were expecting to have answered?

[–] Dr Wily 8 years ago

The biggest one being Lady Penforte saying she knew the Doctor's secret. And the Doctor seemed really worried she'd reveal it. But nothing ever came of it. From the DVD trivia track, it seems this secret was supposed to be that the Doctor was actually God.

Remembrance had set up some secret, like that the Doctor was supposedly there at the beginning of Time Lord civilization. I thought Silver might expand on that, too.

[–] frosted_one 8 years ago

From the making of SN and the DVD the writer did indeed envision the doctor as "God", mentioned this to the producers and was told no way in hell could he actually state it in the show.

As for the doctor being more than a time lord check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartmel_Masterplan

[–] Dr Wily 8 years ago

Yeah, the trivia track says something like he was God but not in the traditional Judeo-Christian sense. Apparently, he just supposed to be "God" in the sense that the Doctor created everything? The trivia doesn't really go into detail, if I remember correctly, on what this was exactly supposed to mean.

[–] paulbeardsley 8 years ago

I'm glad they didn't go with this. It would actually have been worse than the half human idea.

So this is permanence, love's shattered pride.
What once was innocence, turned on its side.

[–] Dr Wily 8 years ago

I don't see how it could have succeeded either. If you're going to be God, surely you can do better things for the universe than helping out singular groups of people one at a time. You can do far more reaching things to help everyone.

If the Doctor was intended to be God, does that make the Time Lords the angels? Actually, the whole Time Lord race seems to be acting as God at times. Despite their supposed non-intervention policies, they do seem willing to meddle with events when it suits them.

[–] pferreira86 8 years ago

It's not as good an anniversary story as say The Five Doctors but it's watchable. From what I understand Kevin Clarke didn't know what he was doing with the script, most of the story and plot comes from Andrew Cartmel which is why there's overlap with Remembrance of the Daleks as he was helping his buddy Ben with that script as well.

I think the most annoying thing is that the Special Edition of the story wasn't included on DVD since that version clarifies and expands more of the plot.