MovieChat Forums > The 300 Spartans Discussion > What about Gates of Fire?

What about Gates of Fire?


There has been talk of adapting Steven Pressfield's novel Gates of Fire into a movie, and if it were done (and done right) it would be one of the best films this decade, perhaps even better than Gladiator.

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I definitely agree. I read the book about 2 years ago and it was fantastic! I hear something is in the works based maybe on Frank Miller's comic version. Who would be cast? Go tell the Spartans......

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I haven't read Miller's, but I don't see how it can be better than Gates. If he weren't so old and already doing another ancient epic, I'd say Anthony Hopkins as Leonidas (who was in his sixties). I don't know the other characters in Miller.

"Better a little with the fear of the Lord than great wealth with turmoil."
Proverbs 15:16

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Actually, George Clooney bought the rights to "Gates of Fire" and a screenplay is being re-worked, but unfortunately, I hear Micheal Mann has been signed to direct. Has he done anything of good note since Miami Vice? He'll probably have the Spartans wearing hot pink instead of red. And, what about Stallone to play Leonidas? He doesn't have to say much, close to the same age, and he's got the body for it. I also hear through the grapevine that someone is working on Miller's "300". To try and beat Clooney and Mann. Interesting side note, Bruce Willis wants in this movie real bad.

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I gotta say I loved what Mann did in Heat and Collateral, but I have no idea how his style would translate to epic combat... if Stallone or Willis was in this I'd probably have to denounce my heritage and become a monk though.

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If I had to choose, I'd take Willis over Stallone, but I sure hope it doesn't come down to that choice. Mel Gibson? Hm... maybe.

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He did a good job on Last of the Mohicans, including the battle scenes.

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"I haven't read Miller's, but I don't see how it can be better than Gates. If he weren't so old and already doing another ancient epic, I'd say Anthony Hopkins as Leonidas (who was in his sixties). I don't know the other characters in Miller. "

I was thinking Clive Owen as Leon

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I, personally, hope they use Gates of Fire and not Miller's 300. Don't get me wrong--I LOVE Miller's work, but he took liberties that are great for a comic, but would degrade the subject matter in a film. I agree, though, something needs to be done movie-wise about the battle of Thermopylae; it's practically criminal that there's only been one film about so stirring a moment in history, and that--while great for its time--now dated and inadequate. And how about Sean Connery for Leonidas? Probably no older than Tony Hopkins, but he seems younger and more vital.

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'Gates of Fire' is, simply put, the most amazing book I have ever read. If a movie were to be made, which I have heard will be done, it would have to be done right.

A quick cast list of the story's main characters, based on personal preference:

Xeones, survivor of Thermopylae: Jim Caviezel (I think he has the right face for the character, for some reason)
Leonidas, king of Sparta: Christopher Lee
Dienekes: Harvey Keitel
Polynikes: Val Kilmer
Alexandros: Ewan McGregor
'Suicide': Ralf Moeller

Just thought I'd post that. I've thought they should make a movie of 'Gates of Fire' since I first read it.

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.....Gates of Fires or even better (what I would call it)...
"Three days at Thermopylae". John Milius or Ridley Scott would be my director. Writer if still alive would be Robert Wise. I believe that M. Mann could do a very good job. That beautiful Gladiator field music played also in this Epic movie.

You guy's are very good on the subject, Credit to you!! Myself also believe two movies will probably be done over this fantastic human adventure...that related these bygone events...Bear in mind, these Athletics warriors were trained since aged seven (in average) they where superb Athletes...they could run ten miles (Remember the Battle of Marathon) fight and win a major battle!

Now, the Actors would have to be (like these Spartans) beautiful specimen of men
Tall, muscular (bring on these six packs) and most of all; suntanned with some
of them with their long blondish hair (not many beards here please, think of the female audience).

Here are my (and you would probably agree here) choices of actors...

Yes, Jim Caviezel has Xeones (the survivor, telling the account).

King Leonidas......(Too bad Clint Walker is not 40 anymore;-)Liam Neeson or
Tom Selleck either vice-versa with the role of Dienekes

Polynice goes to the Handsome Viggo Mortensen...the perfect gardian Warrior!

Alexandros......Antonio Sabatino (Calvin Klein)

Big Suicide....yes....Ralf Moeller (Six ten, 330lbs.) and the famous allied Thaspian General played by none other than Mr. Brad Pitt...and is great feathered helmut with piercing blue eyes gazing out of them...)

Famous Battle scene film in real life epic...no special effects here....scene has real and brutal has Braveheart! It will come soon enough....Yes indeed, an important event was lived back them that did change the course of history.
Au Plaisir, Esher45


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...Oh, I should mention, Matthew McConnehey would be Great in Polynice`s role also... the guy is awsome! I loved him in Reign of Fire....

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Well, three days wouldn't work as they defended the pass for longer than three days and it sure would be nice to see Greek actors or Actors of Greek decent playing Greek historical figures than a bunch of WASP British and American actors who can't drop their accents.

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Christopher Lee? you're joking, right?

For the Greeks, being tanned and buff was more than just a point of pride, it was a religious duty. A scrawny, pale old man like Christopher Lee makes a great Dr. Frankenstein, but as a greek warrior king (of the SPARTANS no less), he's about as good a casting choice for the role as Paris Hilton would be.

As to Ewan McGregor, Val Kilmer, Harvey Keitel, and the others proposed, they're all great actors, and with enough makeup and time spent in the gym, they might manage to come off as better Greeks than Orlando Bloom did in Troy, but I really don't think that that is a benchmark to aspire to.

Stallone isn't a bad choice, he's got the right skin color, physique, and age for Leonidas, and he's demonstrated that he can actually pull off speaking roles.

but c'mon guys, big name actors _ruin_ stories like these - look at 'Bram Stokers Dracula', which bore little or no resembalance to the book, despite the best efforts of the producer, because Keanau's and Winona's and Hopkins' agents all pushed and pushed for more screen time for their clients, and if that meant rewriting the entire essence of their characters, then so be it.

Finally, nameless directors aren't always a bad thing - look at the job Peter Jackson did of LOTR. Nobody had heard of him before then, but he stayed down in New Zealand, away from interference from Hollywood, and made the biggest three movies of the past five years.

Give a story like this to a big producer-director, with a big film company behind him, and we're liable to end up with Leonidas heroically turning the Persians back all by himself (in slow motion), waving the stars and stripes, and crying "for freedom!" at the top of his lungs.

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Finally, nameless directors aren't always a bad thing - look at the job Peter Jackson did of LOTR. Nobody had heard of him before then, but he stayed down in New Zealand, away from interference from Hollywood, and made the biggest three movies of the past five years.
I'd hardly call the maker of Heavenly Creatures "nameless". That really put him on the map, at least among the movie-making community, even though it wasn't a massive-selling movie.

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"Christopher Lee? you're joking, right?

For the Greeks, being tanned and buff was more than just a point of pride, it was a religious duty. A scrawny, pale old man like Christopher Lee makes a great Dr. Frankenstein, but as a greek warrior king (of the SPARTANS no less), he's about as good a casting choice for the role as Paris Hilton would be"

He never played Dr Frankenstein, he played Dracula.

I agree though, he would be mis-cast nowadays in the role.

He is a good actor, should be a sir, I think he should play a Greek eldar or maybe the other King from Athens rather than Leonidas.

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Take one look at Viggo Mortensen's Aragorn in the brief "future" scene (Arwen envisioning her future son) in Lord of the Rings:ROTK and you'll see the perfect Leonidas. The long dark hair, the beard, the lean physique.

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What about Jeremy Irons or (heavily made-up) Liam Neeson for Leonidas?

Take a look at Ralph Moeller in "Gladiator" (he's the big brute of a gladiator that fights alongside Maximus. The one that gets shot in the leg in the arena, but just keeps going.) I think he'd make a perfect suicide. When I was reading the book, that's exactly how I envisioned him.

~Your friendly neighborhood 'Star Wars' guru...

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...Aldo, we have to think that Ralf Moeller at 330 lbs that jump (in the end when the rain shadows of hundred of arrows come flying) on the back of one of his warrior collegue...imagine that! the poor guy already exausted by all the fighting would just drop when Suicide (Moeller) jump on is back in order to save him from the flyimg arrows...

Matthew McConnehey or Viggo Mortgensen (either way in Polynice or suicide role)would probably be a better role actor for this Suicide caracter!

Looking forward for the (two) new version of Gates of fire!
esher45

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Re: What about Gates of Fire?
by - you
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.....Gates of Fires or even better (what I would call it)...
"Three days at Thermopylae". John Milius or Ridley Scott would be my director. Writer if still alive would be Robert Wise. I believe that M. Mann could do a very good job. That beautiful Gladiator field music played also in this Epic movie.

You guy's are very good on the subject, Credit to you!! Myself also believe two movies will probably be done over this fantastic human adventure...that related these bygone events...Bear in mind, these Athletics warriors were trained since aged seven (in average) they where superb Athletes...they could run ten miles (Remember the Battle of Marathon) fight and win a major battle!

Now, the Actors would have to be (like these Spartans) beautiful specimen of men
Tall, muscular (bring on these six packs) and most of all; suntanned with some
of them with their long blondish hair (not many beards here please, think of the female audience).

Here are my (and you would probably agree here) choices of actors...

Yes, Jim Caviezel has Xeones (the survivor, telling the account).

King Leonidas......(Too bad Clint Walker is not 40 anymore;-)Liam Neeson or
Tom Selleck either vice-versa with the role of Dienekes

Polynice goes to the Handsome Viggo Mortensen...the perfect gardian Warrior!

Alexandros......Antonio Sabatino (Calvin Klein)

Big Suicide....yes....Ralf Moeller (Six ten, 330lbs.) and the famous allied Thaspian General played by none other than Mr. Brad Pitt...and is great feathered helmut with piercing blue eyes gazing out of them...)

Famous Battle scene film in real life epic...no special effects here....scene has real and brutal has Braveheart! It will come soon enough....Yes indeed, an important event was lived back them that did change the course of history.
Au Plaisir, Esher45


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Coupla years ago, I e-mailed Steven Pressfield with some questions, one of which queried a Gates of Fire film: he said that something was in the pipeline, and that there was a possibility that George Clooney would star as Leonidas.

My two cents, as the Yanks say.

Frank: And I'll tell you one more thing: I faked every orgasm!

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Polynikes- Brad Pitt

What do you guys think?

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I'm probably gonna get beat down for saying this, and most likely he can't act to save his life, but what about David Beckham for Polynikes? I think he fits the physical description perfectly, but once again, the acting thing, eh.

Behold, the penultimate expensive cast of the ages:

Leonidas: Clooney
Dienekes: Russell Crowe
Polynikes: Pitt? Beckham? Both can radiate the essential *beep*
Xeones: Colin Farrell
Alexandros: Jared Leto
Suicide: Hugh Jackman, Vin Diesel with long hair? Tee Hee.
Rooster: Matt Damon
Xerxes: Am I a horrible person if I can't think of any Middle Eastern actors?

Oh, and if Orlando Bloom comes anywhere near the cast, I'm gonna freakin lose it.

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I like the other poster's suggestion of Clive Owen as Leonidas. I'll stick with that one.
Bruce Willis would work physically as Dienekes, but his acting range leaves many questions (No "Yippee Kayae's" in this script). Crowe would be better if he wants another epic go-round.

Polyniekes needs to be fairly young and Olympic wrestler in stature (Dienekes admits he can't take him strength-wise). Think the Rock with acting.

No more Farrell/Leto! I'd settle for an unknown being Xeones.

Orlando Bloom can be Suicide, but only if he gets to...early

Oded Fehr or Arnold Vosloo can be Xerxes.

"Better a little with the fear of the Lord than great wealth with turmoil."
Proverbs 15:16

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Xerxes = Alexander Sadig

Check him out in "Kingdom of Heaven." Or the guy who played Saladin. Both were OUTSTANDING. Hell, know what? They should cast complete unknown (to the western world) Arab or Persian (Iranian) actors for the Persian parts in the movie. Ravi Kapoor would be a good choice for a part as a Persian too. Hell, the Persian Empire included parts of India, so Bollywood actors aren't out of the question.

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Who would play Xeones when he was young? And who would play his cousin? She would not have the largest part, but still an important one. Jim Caviezel would be the best for Xeones when he is older.

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I had read quite a bit about the battle of Thermopylae (as well as about those at Marathon, Plataea and Salamis) before I ever read Gates of Fire (which I plain disliked) and I always imagined Keanu Reeves as the deranged Xerxes.

Although Alexander Siddig will probablt do a very decent job.

I also imagined Laurence Fishburne as (a ruthless Nubian) Hydarnes, captain of Xerxes' "immortal" guard. He was completely overlooked in GOF, wasn't he ? As was my namesake, though I would argue both their roles were quite interesting.

Trece para siempre.

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***STORY SPOILERS THROUGHOUT THIS POST, YOU ARE WARNED***


The problem a screenwriter will have with this book is XEO. Xeo essentially has no personality throughout the entire story, other than being fiercely loyal to his Spartan masters. The character of Xeo doesn't grow one bit through the whole book. Essentially, the character is there for one thing, and one thing only: Narration. While the story arc of Xeo and his love for his cousin is very interesting, it is ultimately spurious to the story the book is trying to tell. Pressfield wanted an outside-in approach to telling the tale and that's how he invented Xeo's character and arc. ROOSTER the half-helot is actually a more interesting character in that he actually grows by the end of the story **SPOILER ALERT** eventually ending up as a Spartan warrior at the end at the Battle of Plataea **END SPOLER**

If I were to make any large changes at all in the whole story, it would be to replace XEO's character with ROOSTER, but perhaps keep the name of "Xeo." Maybe meld the two characters into one.

The movie should play HEAVILY on the the relationships between these four men: Dienekes, Alexandros, Polynikes, and Rooster - the respect finally shown by Polynikes towards Rooster (mutually given by the end); Polynikes to Alexandros; the father/son style relationship between Alexandros and Dienekes; the connection between Alexandros and Rooster; the connection between Rooster and Dienekes thrust upon them by Dienekes wife; the animosity between Polynikes and Dienekes. Hell, Leonidas should remain a background character throughout the whole thing, perhaps only coming to some kind of prominence only in the final battle scenes.

Keep all that in mind, I would skip the whole Xeo backstory completely, living in the bush after the sack of his polis, etc. I would start the movie with this one scene:

The scene where the Spartans have assembled for a mock-training campaign. The younger recruits are assembled and harshly captained and berated by Polynikes - he breaking their noses during the shield drill - focusing heavily on the animosity shown towards Alexandros. Begin the movie by shocking the audience - plunge the moviegoers deep into the culture from minute 1.

Dienekes: Russel Crowe (in an understated performance). He becomes the de fact main character; not Xeo. This will be much different than Gladiator. However, I think such a role would garner him as much "cool" acclaim as Gladiator did, just because of the sheer badassness all the main characters must exhibit. :)

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I agree with the problem of Xeo. It's not like Willie Keith in the Caine Mutiny, who does undergo dramatic changes. It's been awhile since I read the book, but I believe all Xeo does besides narration is a small bit of fighting near the end of the battle.

I like the idea of combining the characters. It would make a much stronger character. Normally I don't like the idea of changing a book much, but in this case it might work.

As for Alexander Saddiq playing the Great King, I don't see it, not because he didn't do well in KoH (borderline Oscar performance), but because Xerxes never struck me as a brilliant commander. Anyone who loses 20,000 men at Thermopylae and 200 ships at Salamis (or half the fleet) can't be.

This is why I say Arnold Vosloo, someone who can convey a powerful presence and perhaps even a little insanity, do more with the character despite a small amount of screen time.

Finally, I like Leonidas remaining in the background, which he does in the book for the most part. What might be even better is casting an unknown for the part, so when he does finally come to the forefront and take command it will be even more dramatic and unexpected, so the audience won't be waiting for a name actor to show up.

"Better a little with the fear of the Lord than great wealth with turmoil."
Proverbs 15:16

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Thanks for the reply. The main reason I mention Alexander Siddig is because he's one of the few middle eastern actors I am aware of. He did good work in Star Trek Deep Space Nine and was excellent in Kingdom of Heaven. I think the Syrian actor who played Saladin in Kingdom of Heaven (Ghassan Massoud) would also make a great Xerxes. Perhaps we could perform a big old switcheroo and make Massoud "Xerxes" and Siddig "Mardonius" mirroring their roles in KOH. This time, Massoud plays the overconfident, overbearing king, and Saddig the cunning and manipulative warrior general Mardonius.

About combining the characters of Rooster and Xeo: This is what the makers of the movie will HAVE to do in order to create a compelling character. Xeo alone as portrayed in the book, is completely unfilmable in a motion picture. In the book he has a very interesting backstory, but wouldn't serve the actual thrust of a film at all. Rooster's story is much more compelling as the half Spartiate-half Helot, at once loving and hating his ancestry. Rooster actually has growth as a character whereas Xeo remains starry eyed about Spartan society the whole book, not once making one critical argument against his harsh masters. Dienekes and Olympias (both Spartiates) even say this themselves about Xeo: That he's an unwaivering servant that doesn't know what's good for himself. The only way to salvage this dillema is to give Rooster the major reason for Xeo even existing: the job as thematic narrator of the film.

As for Arnold Vosloo, I think he'd make a great EGYPTIAN MARINE CAPTAIN - a sort of wink at his previous role in The Mummy. In The Gates of Fire, before the war the Spartans have this wonderful meeting with a group of Egyptians (Egypt being part of the Persian Empire) while on a diplomatic mission. The Spartans almost befriend these men, their captain most of all, knowing full well they might have to face them in battle sometime in the coming war...



*SPOILER*

And sure enough, they do meet the Egyptians again at Thermopylae - in battle.

*END SPOILER*

Leonidas should definately remain a background figure. He'd be a powerful father-like figure to be sure, but still background until the very end. He's more like the untouchable goldike being these warriors all worship. When he dies, we really see the anguish and despair on our main character's faces, and truly FEEL their need and struggle to retrieve his body from the throngs of Persians. We'll see images and scenes of Leonidas walking among his troops and being the consumate soldier's general. All of thise has to build throughout the movie though. Leonidas as a character should be built up the entire movie as a super-human, but near the end humanize him.

One thing I hope the portray in a possible movie is the effect such teriffying battle did to men mentally. The book describes how enemies of the Spartans peed themselves, trembled, and even shrieked in terror even without wounds. The book even goes so far as to describe the Spartans themselves overcome with a sort of euphoria after battle... their knees giving way and crying together. All of this needs to be portrayed.

Lastly, the HUMOR... wow, the HUMOR needs to translate from the book to the movie. So many horrifying images need levity, and the book provides it. The harsh language, dry wit of the soldiers, and vulgar jokes told amongst the troops before they went into battle are all priceless.

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I really hope this movie gets made. What a crime if it isn't. I just pray that the movie studios dont get tired of Greek epics before this movie gets made. I loved the book, and whoever makes the movie ought to take their time and do this amazing legend justice.

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Much as I love this story and THE 300 Spartans treatment, I don't think GATES OF FIRE will ever make it to the screen, given the box office misfires of TROY, KING ARTHUR, ALEXANDER and the 2 ROME TV series.

This essentially is a story about battle. I mean how many battle scene movies can they do? And while GATES OF FIRE tweaks the Thermopylae story and refines the final siege, it will still be another sword and sandal epic. Not unless they got the greatest line-up of movie stars THEN might a film version of this come to pass.

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Don't include "Troy" in your list of recent epic duds. Troy cost a little over $200 million (including advertising) and made over $450 million worldwide BEFORE the DVDs came out. This was a VERY PROFITABLE motion picture. The reason some think it was not a success was because one criteria, that U.S. receipts alone did not pay the movie's costs, suggested it would not be profitable. It made about $140 million U.S. and the other $310 million in foreign markets.

King Arthur, the putrid Alexander and Kingdom of Heaven did lousy throughout the world, including the U.S.

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"Don't include "Troy" in your list of recent epic duds. Troy cost a little over $200 million (including advertising) and made over $450 million worldwide BEFORE the DVDs came out. This was a VERY PROFITABLE motion picture. The reason some think it was not a success was because one criteria, that U.S. receipts alone did not pay the movie's costs, suggested it would not be profitable. It made about $140 million U.S. and the other $310 million in foreign markets."

--

There's a huge difference between a finacially successful movie and a GOOD one. I say this with years of film study behind me, so I like to think I know what I'm talking about.

Troy did have several big stars and made an astounding amount of money (assuming your figures are correct, I'm not about to check them) but the movie and acting quality in and of themselves was, quite frankly, poorly dissapointing. I don't even like Pitt and I know he can do better than the *beep* he spewed out in Troy. I *do* like Bloom and this was incredibly shoddy work for him. Brian Cox, Eric Bana, Diane Kruger and Julian Glover (viva la General Veers in Star Wars: ESB!) are all that made the movie bearable, and I saw it while curled up in a Laz-E-Boy with a hot chick at an ungodly hour. And it made her fall asleep, completely ruining my plans for the evening, which says something about the movie, though I'll leave that to your imagination. :P

So don't confuse SELLING GOOD and BEING GOOD. Big difference. Troy hit one of the two, and failed miserably trying to attain the other (ie, the second one.)

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Last I heard it was Bruce Willis in the lead as far as pick for King Leonidas

"By Way of Deception Thou Shall Make War"

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I doubt the Gates of Fire movie would be made right by H-wood. Face it, the book is on the required reading lists for Army and Marine officer candidates. Do you honestly think anyone in H-wood understands the meaning of sacrifice for a greater cause, the brotherhood of arms, or properly training for war?

If anyone could pull this off it would probably be Mel Gibson, directing and playing Leonidas.

It's Cosmo...He's Chinese.

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There are a couplke of people in Hollywood who do believe in the sacrifice of others. If anyone were to be interested in it, hope it would be the pair of Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks, although Mr. Spielberg screwed the pooch with "Munich". Very slanted in the direction of the Palestinians.

"By Way of Deception Thou Shall Make War"

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I noticed this has not had much activity in a while - just read the book (we were in Greece for vacation, and I happen to grab it for the plane ride back). As much as I would love to see it on the big screen, just don't see anyone on the west coast doing it justice.

Would be a great film if they picked men from the military to star in every role - let them show what the book entails.

Anyone hear more on the movie? Read up on Miller's "300" and the movie they are filming - pre-production website is up and out there with some pretty interesting vids.

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Are they still going to proeed with Gates of Fire?

I only just found out about the "300" movie being released in 07. I think it looks great!

Very different to most other epics. All the movie filmed on a blue screen!

There is already film footage up on the net now. It looks brutal but thats the way it was and the way it should be in the movie.

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I, too, have recently finished 'Gate of Fire' after having been inspired by Pressfield's' The War of Art'. If, indeed, as the rumor line has gone, Michael Mann is at the helm I think things would be quite in order. Minus 'Miami Vice'(well made, regardless)he hasn't cinematically mis-stepped.
Having worked with many of his co-workers over the years, the inspiring and frustrating aspect of collaborating with Mann is his attention to detail. He would honor the period and the history foremost than a any other epic-capable directors, I think. ('Last of the Mohicans' should quell most doubts).

While fantasy casting huge stars is fun. (i.e. Stallone/ Willis/ Gibson) I tend to agree with a previous writer that more unknowns than stars would be preferable. A choice peppering here and there for charisma (i.e. Clooney and such)and leadership, the comraderie and ego-lessness of unknowns would be better served. Think 'Saving Private Ryan'or the lesser-known (but I think great)' Thirteenth Warrior' (butchered by studio and taken from McTiernan). When there are too many stars the set would become it's own Thermopyle= not enough space and too many squires).

I don't know if agree with the Xeones being an insufficient character. Telling through the eyes of can work quite effectively. Essentially making the story's arc more about the agogue and the ensemble of warriors (focusing on Alexandros and Polynike and Dieneke). I think Pressfield's natural cinematic writing style in terms of time-jump and narrative would keep things naturally engaging.

While '300' looks fun, I think it's an apple to 'Gates' orange...a fun, splatter-fest actioner but not really entrenched in the research and erudition that Pessfield married to so many engaging battles (either on the field or inter-personal).

My hunger for a screen-version led me here. If it's in George's hands I will be at ease. The guys behind the 'Oceans' movies at K Street Productions(i.e. Soderberg) have their heads in the right places. I would bear a xiphos and hoplite to keep Mr. Willis away (all respect due)in favor of more slightly below radar actors as Peter Saarsgard, Aaron Ekhert, Jamie Bamber, etc. I'd gladly sacrifice some brawn for some inspiration.

If not Mann at the helm (pardon the pun) then the likes of Peter Weir (see; Master and Commander') David Fincher (see; 'Fight Club')or the off-the-beaten-path like Alphonso Cuaron.

That's my two-cents. I'm just excited the film is being discussed. It's begging for it's cinematic equivalent...but it's gonna take an srtist, not a showman, to pull it off.

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