Now, West Side Story is not a bad film, but when The Hustler lost many of its oscar noms to it, I feel a blow was struck to cinema. It was a symbolic passing of the torch from the deep, emotionally driven, and nuance-filled cinema to the gaudy spectacle. Thoughts?
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room."-Dr. Strangelove
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Sorry guys I have to disagree. "The Hustler' is a great film. But "West Side Story" resonates more with me. I feel bad writing this because I have such a profound love for both films. Without in any way disagreeing with the fine points you two make about "The Hustler", "West Side Story" is not cheap or gaudy. It's a powerful musical with the best dancing, music and songs of any in that genre. The backdrop is as raw as anything in "On the Waterfront" or "The Hustler" for that matter. But here it's revealed via the most beautiful choreography ever on film, and music and lyrics that resonate on a thousand levels. Yes it's dated and today's audience has no patience with people breaking into song and dance amid realistic settings. But the musical is a stylized form not unlike the opera, ballet, kabuki, Chinese opera etc. It has it's own set of esthetic rules which must be appreciated on that level. With "West Side Story" following the rules gives me an ecstatic kind of joy.
What is so powerful about remaking one of the worst Shakespeare stories? It's also impossible to compare the colorful and hackneyed gangs of WWS with the morose mobsters of On the Waterfront. And I would like to hear an explanation of the forementioned "rules" of WWS.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room."-Dr. Strangelove
i lost you, i'm sorry. what exactly is WWS? are you thinking beyond our capabilities at this point?
be well. 42
For me it's like comparing apples and boomerangs. They are just two different to be able to say which is better. I don't think they have the same purpose - which is why I am able to give a Marvel Avengers movie a star ranking up there with To Kill A Mockingbird - they serve totally different purposes - but serve their own purpose beautifully. Being a musical, WSS stands out because although musicals are often light-hearted, it isn't; even some of the music that appears light-hearted masks deeper issues (Officer Krupke).
shareI love musicals, but WSS didn't do much for me when I first saw it recently. Perhaps it didn't age well? I can see why it was impressive in 1961, but I think "The Hustler" is a better film as a whole, and remains still strong.
FYC: Bess O'Brien, for the first female to win Best Director
I don't think any harm at all was done to cinema by having West Side Story beat the The Hustler at the Academy awards. For one thing, West Side Story is an immense film in its own right and, thanks to its oscar recognition, many of its great achievements in music, acting, design, choreography, dancing and editing received their deserved due. In that sense - the sense of its boldness of concept and professional excellence - it was actually a great thing for cinema. As for 'nuance-filled' movies being dealt a blow as a result, nothing could be further from the truth. The following decade saw the demise of musical spectaculars and action epics, while countless gritty realist movies like Hud and The Last Picture Show - all of which were very similar in tone, style and sentiment to The Hustler - came to prominence.
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It's an apples and oranges situation, which is why probably so many artists feel that awards are irrelevant. Subjective works of art cannot be compared beyond a point. Personally, I would have gone with The Hustler, but West Side Story was a superior musical that struck a chord with massive audiences everywhere. Newman and his films lost out time and time again to such populist choices. Maybe indirectly, this is a tribute to him as a risk-taking actor, who knows.
But I will say this as a fan of Robert Wise - West Side Story and The Sound of Music carry far more resonance than the empty-vessel musicals being rewarded nowadays. I mean, Dreamgirls? The music stunk, the singing (read screeching) jarred, the screenplay was heavy-handed, the acting barring a couple of performances sucked. Most over-rated musical of all time. Even Chicago, however dazzling, was emotionally cold with no repeat value. Zeta-Jones was over-rated and predictably, awarded. Zellweger and the production design made that movie worthwhile.
I think UK Scott pretty much nailed it. Personally, I find WSS almost unwatchable, while The Hustler is one of my favorite films. But the essential point is that WSS represented the apex of musicals' popularity, which, except for isolated examples such as the Sound of Music, soon entered a long, steady decline. The Hustler, meanwhile, highlighted the gritty realism and anti-hero ethos that under-pinned Hollywood's 1970s Golden Age.
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"I killed the president of Paraguay with a fork. How've you been?"
I agree. Chicago has some great music and the potential for great dance numbers. I've only seen it done by local theatre groups, but except for the sets (can a stage production, especially at that level really compete with Hollywood?) the local group was a better production - the singing and dance numbers were excellent. The Chicago movie was too excited about what they COULD do with the camera rather than a stage that they forgot to ask what they SHOULD do (to paraphrase Jurassic Park's Dr. Malcolm....).
shareThe Hustler vs. West Side Story
I saw both, at the age of 17, whne they came out. I liked both, but "The Hustler" a lot more. I'm not into those kinds of musicals, although I can appreciate them.
shareJust saw "The Hustler" for the first time. It had it's ups and downs, but all in all it was a powerful movie. However with "West Side Story" I felt the real magic of cinema, something only a few movies can make me feel. I'm glad for every Oscar that it won.
shareGone with the Wind was the first to pull off that trick (check out the other 1939 nominees and films).
As a film, The Hustler easily surpasses West Side Story in at least a dozen categories. However, West Side Story is in fact a brilliant film that has since become an irrefutable icon of Americana, so I can't fault the Academy for giving it Best Picture.
Frankly, it's one of the few times the Academy has gotten it right, as films typically win predicated on the politics of the business while more important work either gets buried under more competitive Oscar marketing, suckerpunched by pandering to voters, or completely snubbed for specious reasons.
Regardless of the winning film's merits, time usually clarifies the matter. For recent examples, Forrest Gump beat Shawshank Redemption, Pulp Fiction, and Quiz Show in 95, all of which are widely considered superior films. The Departed similarly beat out several superior films in 07, one of which was completely snubbed over conflicting year-of-release and sociopolitical issues, despite arguably being one of the most important films of the new millennium (V for Vendetta).
The Hustler was easily the better film, although West Side Story was a good movie. My guess is if the two were up for nomination today, the Hustler would probably win by a landslide.
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I just recently saw Judgement and Hustler for the first time, but have seen WSS many times since my childhood. Although Judgement and Hustler are both great, after just the one viewing, I have to say I agree with you about Judgement being the better film of the two. I actually prefer Newman in Exodus, BUT I just didn't care for his character in Hustler - it wasn't a good guy/bad guy thing - he just seemed to lack his usual charm.
shareAre you actually suggesting that GWTW, the most popular film ever produced didn't deserve to win Best Picture in 1939? We're not talking Jezebel here. We're talking about the greatest performance by an actress in film history. We're talking about one of the most elaborate and expensive productions ever. It's almost Oscar bait for all its worth.
Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.
It isn't close - The Hustler was well superior to West Side Story.
The problem I had with West Side Story was the main two characters had zero chemistry and it is more believable that Brooklyn Decker has feelings for me than believing those two do for each other.
The Hustler was gritty, real with no sugar added
West Side Story had the wimpiest gangs ever and forced romance - too unbelievable
I haven't seen Fanny yet but The Hustler should have won the Oscar based on the others...
Hustler - 8/10
West Side - 3 /10
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The problem is, rating 1961 movies in 2015 in terms of the 1961 Oscar isn't fair. Today, The Hustler may speak to us more because the culture and situations the movie portrays feel real...as opposed to the documentary feel that Judgement at Nurenburg has, or the somewhat complete unreality West Side Story has today.
But it is impossible to relate the degree to which WSS was a cultural phenomenon back then. The songs, the dancing, and even the cultural situation was on the top of most Americans' minds. Even today, I dare you to watch the movie and not walk away humming one of the tunes. And while the gang violence portrayed in the movie seems quaint today, America was waking up to the idea that its teenagers weren't completely content to follow in their parent's footsteps, and it vindicated their discomfort when tragedy struck.
Even in 1961, pool halls were becoming a thing of the past -- especially in urban America.
That's not to take away anything from this film. I just saw it for the first time, and was totally blown away by the acting -- particularly Piper Laurie, perhaps because unlike the other main actors, Newman, Scott, and Gleason, her career was so much more subdued.
To me, both films seem to capture the death of a genre. The Hustler, the great film noirs that depicted life in all its grit, angst, and depth. And WSS of the musical spectaculars, though certainly some of both survived for a few more years.
All in all, though, I'd have to give the nod to West Side Story as the better movie by a hair, in toto, though by far, The Hustler has the better acting.
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I almost thought of Hustler as noir, but I've just started catching noirs on TCM in the last couple of years and wasn't sure it was. The gritty feel felt noirish, but most of the noir I've seen involve thriller/crime/espionage elements.
shareI wasn't all that impressed with Judgement at Nuremberg, and being a history buff that was an added disappointment. But I would rate it above West Side Story.
I'd still vote for The Hustler. But I guess it's debatable...