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When Did Arbogast Become Suspicious?

posted 2 years ago by Sandman81 (1510)
6 replies | jump to latest

At what point did Arbogast start to suspect that Marion had been at the Bates Motel??

1) The obvious choice would be the first time he caught Norman in a lie. Norman had said no one had been there in weeks, but then admits a couple had stopped for directions. While this could have been an honest mistake by Norman, or maybe he meant no one had stayed there in weeks, it still set off some alarms in the PI's mind.

2) When Norman tried to refuse to look at the picture.

3) Or perhaps he was suspicious even before he met Norman. Just pulling up to the ramshackle Bates Motel with no lights on and as he described it "the only motel that seems to be hiding from the world." would be enough to make him think it would be the perfect place for someone who wants to hide from the world. Notice he didn't spend much time talking to the other hotel owners. They looked at the picture, said no they hadn't seen her, and he left. But he didn't do that with Norman. Even after Norman said no one had been there in weeks, he stayed and continued asking questions, even though there was no indication that Norman was lying.

[–] roger1 (3876) 2 years ago

(aka ecarle.)

At what point did Arbogast start to suspect that Marion had been at the Bates Motel??

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This is a great topic, because it demonstrates just how precise and intelligent the Psycho script is(with help from Robert Bloch's novel) and how Hitchcock -- at his best, not every time -- really knew how to plot a thriller like clock-work.

To wit:

We saw Arbogast question several other innkeepers(silent soundtrack) but we can figure that they ALL cooperated from the get go with Arbogast's questions.

Norman does NOT.

Arbogast: Has anyone been here?
Norman: Well, nobody's been here in a couple of weeks.
Arbogast: Would you mind looking at this picture before committing yourself?
Norman: Commit myself? You sure SOUND like a policeman.
Arbogast: (A bit irritated). Look at the picture, please.

Arbogast: Mind if I look at your register?
Norman: Well, I don't much even register people anymore. But...old habits die hard.

Norman constantly -- ingratiatingly -- tries to deflect Arbogast's questions and request, and Arbogast NOTICES that. All Norman HAD to do was: look at the picture, open up the register. I'll bet the other people did that. Of course, Norman knows the woman DID sign the register and yep, Arbogast pounces on it: "I have a copy of her hand writing here. Yes...Marie Samuels! Her boyfriend's name was Sam."

But there's a "big one" that flips the entire conversation...

CONT

[–] roger1 (3876) 2 years ago

1) The obvious choice would be the first time he caught Norman in a lie. Norman had said no one had been there in weeks, but then admits a couple had stopped for directions. While this could have been an honest mistake by Norman, or maybe he meant no one had stayed there in weeks, it still set off some alarms in the PI's mind.

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Yep -- THAT's the big one that flips the entire conversation. The "trigger" is Norman turning on the sign -- signally nighttime at the Bates Motel(bad times for Arbogast) and Hitchcock even cuts quick to the BATES MOTEL VACANCY sign coming on. This dialogue:

Arbogast: What's that?
Norman: The lights...the sign. We had an old couple stop by here last week said if the sign hadn't been on , they'd think this was an old deserted --
Arbogast: (breaking in) And you see! And that's exactly my point. And you said no one had stayed here in a couple of weeks and here's a couple stopped by a week ago..
Norman: Yeah.

Soon, Arbogast is looking in the register and Hitchcock swings the camera under Norman's throat. He's in trouble now..on the defensive.

BTW, I don't think the couple just asked for directions. I think Norman would have said that. I think they stopped and stayed...at the motel of death. Survived. Just an old couple.

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CONT

[–] roger1 (3876) 2 years ago

BTW, in Joe Stefano's published screenplay for Psycho, Norman gets to finish his sentence:

Norman: We had a couple stop by a week ago, said if the sign hadn't been on, they would have thought this was an old, deserted mining town --
Arbogast: And that's exactly my point!..

CONT

[–] roger1 (3876) 2 years ago

2) When Norman tried to refuse to look at the picture.

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Yep. I'm sure Arbogast noticed that right away. With ALL the other innkeepers, they probably just looked at the picture, with no deflection. And let Arbogast look at the register right away.

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3) Or perhaps he was suspicious even before he met Norman. Just pulling up to the ramshackle Bates Motel with no lights on and as he described it "the only motel that seems to be hiding from the world." would be enough to make him think it would be the perfect place for someone who wants to hide from the world.

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Now that is a new angle that I hadn't considered before. And I've seen this movie a few times! Yes, ol' Arbogast may have already been noticing that the place COULD be a hideout, outside of town, for the short terrm.

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Notice he didn't spend much time talking to the other hotel owners. They looked at the picture, said no they hadn't seen her, and he left.

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That's right. They all cooperated and Arbogast got to look at registers that did NOT have "Marie Samuels" signed. So he went on his way.

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But he didn't do that with Norman. Even after Norman said no one had been there in weeks, he stayed and continued asking questions, even though there was no indication that Norman was lying

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Well, maybe the movie pushed a LITTLE too hard to have Arbogast get suspicious quick, but the plot had to move along. Norman was evasive enough that the private eye elected to follow his instincts and ask more questions.

And when Norman turned on the sign and made the mistake talkking about the old couple: game on.

Arbo moved in for the kill(though he was really killing himself): "Want to look at the picture again?"

And Norman breaks down. "Oh, yeahh..." (Big audience laugh in the theater.) "Well, its not a very good picture of her."

And Arbogast has won: "I suppose not. Well...tell me all about her."

Tell me all about her.

From here on out the scene is Arbogast just peppering Norman with questions including some great "guesses": Did she meet anybody? Did she call anybody? Did you spend the night with her?

And then his surmise: "She's not still here, is she?"

Its a great scene, well shot, well acted, well written and well broken into three parts(Arbogast meets Norman on the porch, Arbogast questions Norman in the office, Arbogast confronts Norman on the porch.

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7818) 2 years ago

[–] roger1 (3876) 2 years ago

Besides the finding out Marion was there and him not having mentioned it, he really ended up getting screwed once Arbogast saw the corpse of his mom in the window. His mother side went ballistic at that happening.

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Absolutely. The Arbogast-Norman duel moves back to the porch (and its now dark nighttime) and Arbo spots the woman in the window and -- boy oh boy. The mother side goes ballistic with Arbogast just as "she" did with Marion. Marion triggered Mother with "What if you put her...someplace?" And Arbogast triggers Mother with "You'd know you were being used, you wouldn't be made a fool of?" Both times, Norman turns into a bit of a rager(Mother driving him to it.) "Let's put it this way, she may have fooled me, but she didn't fool my mother." and then Arbo pounces yet AGAIN: "Then your mother met her! Can I talk to your mother? You know, sick old ladies can be pretty sharp. " Arbogast doesn't know how sick, how sharp.

One thing I like about Norman's final confrontation on the porch with Arbogast is that Arbogast's back is to the DARKNESS and beyond that is the HOUSE and -- terrified 1960 audiences may have been waiting for Mrs. Bates to suddenly appear out of the darkness behind Arbogast and kill him. But Mother IS Norman, and Norman throws Arbogast out instead and...

...who's to say that there wasn't MORE terror that, when Arbogast drove to that phone booth to report in...Mother might not follow him in a car and kill him then?

I think audiences were in terror all through Psycho after Marion was killed..the Arbogast scene is more than just a talking session...he could get killed at any time before he gets killed.