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Ed Gein felt the same way!

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Hah.

"But seriously, folks..."

There were a lot of reasons the 1998 remake of Psycho failed to have 1/10th the impact of the 1960 original, but one of them has to be: quizzical young 1998 audiences wondering why they had to go through over a half hour of NO horror, no murders, nuthin....as Marion embarked on her long car journey, met a cop, bought a car.

Oh, there was a suspense underpinning to the drive...she's stolen money, will she be found out? -- but folks who came for a slasher movie wondered what the hell was going on.

Even in 1960, some critics thought the beginning of Psycho was too slow. Wrote the New York Times Bosley Crowther: "Hitchcock swiftly gets Leigh to an out of the way motel...well, maybe he doesn't get her there too swiftly. This film is given over to a lot of detail for Hitchcock."

A man interviewed with many others about "the first time I saw Psycho" in 1960 said "its going on and on and I'm telling my wife, oh, its alright I guess....and then the shower scene came and it was pandemonium."

And as Bernard Herrmann told Brian DePalma about the long opening, "Because the film is from Hitchcock, the audience knows something horrible WILL happen...and they will wait."

Still, historically, there it is. A horror movie where the audience dutifully waits for 30 minutes(the first sighting of the house and motel) for any horror atmosphere, and 47 minutes for the first shock(but its a big one, in the shower.)

I can certainly understand, in the age of DVD, the ease of jumping to the motel start-up...and the first appearance of Norman Bates. I wonder how many DVD viewers have dumped that first half hour and never watched it again(confession: that's what i do whenever I watch Jurrassic Park on DVD!)







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But there are many "cineastes" and just plain Hitchcock fans who love that long, luxurious opening for what it is: a study in suspense and paranoia, anchored by a very pretty woman under maximum pressure, and filled with interesting cinematic touches(the close-up of the cop's face; how the camera travels down the row of used cars from Marion's POV.)

And once Marion sets out from California Charlie's to her date with destiny at the Bates Motel, we begin what one critic called "the greatest night drive in movie history" a precision mix of darkening skies, rising rain, windshield wipers whapping, Herrmann music jittering -- and voices tormenting our heroine in the night.

And this: from a second viewing of Psycho on, that first 30 minutes is always very poignant to me -- it is a countdown to the death of Marion Crane. These incidents will prove to be the last incidents of her entire life, the last things she gets to do as a living human being. They are very sad in the watching -- for instance, when Sam watches Marion leave that hotel room, he can't know he is seeing her for the very last time ever. On earth.

I know of at least one Hitchcock scholar -- Camille Paglia -- who has written that the part before Marion reaches the motel is her FAVORITE part -- and that she turns the movie off after that point. Paglia is not interested in the shocker part.

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It may not work for a modern audience. It seems few of the movies Gen X and Baby Boomers consider classics work well with the Millennials. This is not to bash the Millennials. They've been conditioned to look down at their phones if something outrageous doesn't happen within five seconds of a movie starting.

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It may not work for a modern audience. It seems few of the movies Gen X and Baby Boomers consider classics work well with the Millennials. This is not to bash the Millennials. They've been conditioned to look down at their phones if something outrageous doesn't happen within five seconds of a movie starting.

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That's right.

Though I would like to point out that Jaws famously opened with a shock killing -- a naked woman in water, rather like Psycho -- and got to another killing(the boy) not too long thereafter. That was only 15 years after Psycho, and reflected how a lot of "B horror movies" opened in the 50's.

Hitchcock seemed interested in "stretching out the build-up" in both Psycho AND The Birds, where even LESS happens for a long long time(no sexual necking, no embezzlement) before the shocks come...very slowly.

Indeed, most of the time, Hitchcock was content to start slow -- and with exposition -- and to build up to his set-pieces and excitements.

Except one time, and it is an ironic one: Vertigo.

Vertigo as a movie is long, slow, nearly bereft of thrills or action or murder(though there is one). Except for its slam-bang opening: a chase across San Francisco rooftops that ends with James Stewart in a life or death cliffhanger and a cop falling to his death. Hitch seemed to need that bang-up opening for Vertigo because he knew the rest of the movie would be pretty languid.

Thrillers and movies in general seem to have been allowed to "start slow" for decades until some changes were made. "Jaws" is one, but the big one is "Star Wars" which, when coupled with MTV in the eighties, sped up storytelling and audience needs in one gulp.

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And this: it is my contention that, once TV executives took over Hollywood in the 80s, movies started playing like TV shows -- at least cop movies like Lethal Weapon and Die Hard. You would have an opening bang-up murder or action scene, and then sporadic cliffhangers/action scenes every seven minutes or so(as if timed for commercial breaks.)

But wait a minute: the original "Die Hard" actually takes a lot of time starting up before the action kicks in. To that extent, that movie perhaps BENEFITTED from taking the time to establish characters(Willis and his estranged wife; the business executives); before Rickman and the pseudo-terrorists came in.

The other movie series that thrived on bang-up openings was the James Bond series, but it took awhile for the pre-credits scene to require big action. Goldfinger(fight scene and electrocution) in the Connerys; The Spy Who Loved Me(ski chase and skydive) in the Moores -- and then ALL Bond movies opened with big action scenes pre-credits.

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Good points. For smaller budgeted movies before Jaws and Star Wars, there might have been something exploitive early on to maintain audience interest and compensate for the small budget, lack of stars, etc. But I think Jaws and Star Wars really changed the culture in Hollywood. A lot of people probably appreciate a slow build up, but the masses, in general, have been trained to expect fireworks (like the zombies in Land of the Dead) every three-five minutes now, so when a slow-moving, contemplative movie is released, it's generally trashed by the masses because their little spongy brains can't absorb too much.

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This is not to bash the Millennials.
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oh, bash, bash, bash.

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Now THAT's a tragedy.

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True.

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Wut. No Saul Bass luv? No Janet Leigh brassiere luv? And I've been stuck driving a clunker thinking if I had 400K to start married life that I could afford a decent sports car.

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Wut. No Saul Bass luv? No Janet Leigh brassiere luv?

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Well, yes over here.

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And I've been stuck driving a clunker thinking if I had 400K to start married life that I could afford a decent sports car.

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But it didn't work out for Marion even with 40K....

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The car I was thinking of was a brand new Porsche 911SC in 1983 at $31,450. Even after buying that, I'd still have plenty to buy a house and get married. OTOH, Marion experienced some bad luck due to ending up at Bates Motel and Norman peeping on her in her brassiere. That set off everything.

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The car I was thinking of was a brand new Porsche 911SC in 1983 at $31,450. Even after buying that, I'd still have plenty to buy a house and get married.

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Boy, you really have thought this out. A small down payment on the house, a wife to help pay the bills. a Porsche.

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OTOH, Marion experienced some bad luck due to ending up at Bates Motel and Norman peeping on her in her brassiere. That set off everything.

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Sadly, yes. But you know, BEFORE all of that occurred, what really, sadly and ironically set up Marion for her death was...meeting and falling love with Sam Loomis.

Marion Crane was a resident of Phoenix, Arizona, hundreds of miles away from the Bates motel. But Sam Loomis lived only 15 miles from the Bates Motel. If Marion had never met Sam, she never would have driven hundreds of miles to Fairvale and never would have stopped at the Bates Motel.

I'll bet Sam forever felt bad about that.

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See, the Porsche doesn't fit with the Bates Motel so I couldn't stop there. The lowest I could be seen in would be a Holiday Inn. Okay, in a pinch, a Hampton Inn.

>>Marion Crane was a resident of Phoenix, Arizona, hundreds of miles away from the Bates motel. But Sam Loomis lived only 15 miles from the Bates Motel. If Marion had never met Sam, she never would have driven hundreds of miles to Fairvale and never would have stopped at the Bates Motel.

I'll bet Sam forever felt bad about that.<<

Until he met Marion's sister.

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See, the Porsche doesn't fit with the Bates Motel so I couldn't stop there. The lowest I could be seen in would be a Holiday Inn. Okay, in a pinch, a Hampton Inn.

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Hah! So the Porsche would have saved Marion's life. Were there Holiday Inn Expresses or Hampton Inns in 1960?

(Note in passing: the proliferation of "chain motels" in the decades since Psycho have rather killed off its premise, yes?)

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>>Marion Crane was a resident of Phoenix, Arizona, hundreds of miles away from the Bates motel. But Sam Loomis lived only 15 miles from the Bates Motel. If Marion had never met Sam, she never would have driven hundreds of miles to Fairvale and never would have stopped at the Bates Motel.

I'll bet Sam forever felt bad about that.<<

Until he met Marion's sister.

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Well...yeah. Hitchcock's original leaves open the question of whether Sam and Lila would get together (he fired a screenwriter who had them kiss while at the Bates Motel.) But it seems at once logical ...and terrible.

Psycho II(a "fan fiction" movie, you ask me) postulated that Sam and Lila married, had a daughter. And then Sam died, no older than his early fifties. Of what, we aren't told. My guess was : a stress heart attack from guilt and from Lila's unending rage over Norman Bates and the murder of her sister.

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A 'fan fiction' movie is an excellent way to describe Psycho II. I worked with a guy who knew I was into Hitchcock movies, and especially Psycho. He was also a movie fan.

When II was released, he'd read a few reviews of it before I'd seen any. The day after it was released. He WARNED me that they were saying that now, Universal(?) was claiming it was supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek, semi comedy all along, because it had none of the seriousness of the original. So based upon that, I really believed Universal was covering up, like he told me.

The next day I saw the movie. Of COURSE it had its tongue firmly in its cheek throughout. Who would ever have thought that scene of Perkins crying in Meg Tilly's arms about...'Except those toasted cheese sandwiches!' was anything but farce?

Not to mention the Friday the 13th initial attack on the teenagers getting stoned and making out in the basement.

And 'I just got back and don't have any cu-hu-hutlery yet'.

So when the movie started, I wasn't sure what to expect. But it didn't take long before I realized it was mostly a joy ride.

Vera Miles' killing was only the shocker (and not for nothing, but I always thought she was one of the most underrated/underused actresses back in the day).

I have the DVD.

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A 'fan fiction' movie is an excellent way to describe Psycho II.

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I offer that phrase because I feel like with each of the sequels, it seemed like the plots were sort of "made up on the spot" and lacked the gravitas of Hitchcock's original. Psycho 3, for instance, conjured up a few new characters(a male drifter, a female reporter, a young nun) and didn't feel much connected to Psycho beyond to Norman.

Psycho II is more tied into Psycho -- Lila is here -- but the big fan fiction element to me is...just letting Norman Bates out to work at a diner(with KNIVES) after the horrific murders he committed. It was unbelievable. As for Sam marrying Lila, its simply a plot point -- Sam is mentioned, as dead, once. That's it. There's no weight given to that marriage.

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The next day I saw the movie. Of COURSE it had its tongue firmly in its cheek throughout. Who would ever have thought that scene of Perkins crying in Meg Tilly's arms about...'Except those toasted cheese sandwiches!' was anything but farce?

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I HOPE it was farce. Though Tony Perkins -- still a fine actor -- seemed out to make us feel his pain there. Still, it played as farce.

I'm tough on the three sequels to Psycho because I don't think Hitchcock (in his pre-Topaz prime at least) would have approved those scripts and filmed them. They are subpar, not in his league.

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Not to mention the Friday the 13th initial attack on the teenagers getting stoned and making out in the basement.

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Not only a clear nod to the "dead teenager" genre, but a remake of a similar scene in the subpar Jaws 2 also involving a teen girl who lives and her teen boyfriend who dies. It felt as they just retyped the Jaws 2 pages for the Psycho house.

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And 'I just got back and don't have any cu-hu-hutlery yet'.

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Well...that was funny. And Perkins had fun with it.

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So when the movie started, I wasn't sure what to expect. But it didn't take long before I realized it was mostly a joy ride.

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Yes...just another slasher movie, really. More killings than in Psycho, none as good as the two in Psycho...and a downright silly climax, you ask me.

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Vera Miles' killing was only the shocker

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There was some disgust at how she was dispatched given Hitchcock's elegance in the original. But I did like the irony: 23 years after she narrowly escaped death in the fruit cellar...it finds her, in the SAME fruit cellar.

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(and not for nothing, but I always thought she was one of the most underrated/underused actresses back in the day).

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One of the best things about Psycho II was it gave Perkins AND Miles a good payday -- and nostalgic brief fame again. Hitchcock wanted to make Vera Miles a star in Vertigo. She pulled out over a pregnancy (though rumor has it she had the baby in time to make the movie after all, but Paramount wanted Kim Novak). And the star rhythm ended for Miles.

Still, she made two great ones for John Ford(The Searchers and The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance) and two great ones for Hitchcock(The Wrong Man and Psycho), and was a workhorse TV guest actress for over 30 years. And as of this writing, she's one of only two stars still alive who were in Psycho.(Pat Hitchcock is the other.)

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I have the DVD

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So do I. For years, Psycho 3 was the only sequel I had on DVD(it is my favorite of the three.) But I was recently gifted with II and IV and...well, I have them now but they don't feel much like the original.

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@popactor. You've had lots of good responses already but I thought I'd add that, at least in my view, a lot of beloved movies can stand to be approached in various ways, and now that we all get to own (and twist like taffy!) our own copies of our faves, that's what most of us do. Sometimes only the full, slowly unfolding experience, 'the journey' will do, but other times it's enough to start close to one of the action high-points.

Consider The Matrix: it starts with a justly famous action sequence riffing partly on Vertigo's opening rooftop chase - https://tinyurl.com/y7t7tg5m - but then it takes 30 minutes to get Keanu the red pill and out of the Matrix and into the film's Real World. I've probably watched The Matrix 2 or 3 times right the way through, but on many more occasions I've started at the 30 min point (or even later, at a training sequence).

Or consider Alien: it takes 35 minutes for Kane/John Hurt to trigger the space egg and become infected/penetrated and 56 mins until we *begin* to understand the full consequences of that with the chestburster scene.

And so on. It's the fate of these incredibly important, premise-establishing (or predicate-laying) first acts to sometimes be overlooked to some extent or in some moods by even the biggest fans precisely because they love the story that's built atop that premise so much.

Anyhow, as one lives with a movie, even a great movie that sparks many imitators over the years, often the imitations drop any classy, mood- and premise-establishing features of the original. The tiresome imitations often inadvertently help the fans re-appreciate what was good about the original. So...I in fact predict that you'll eventually come around, and even love Marion&Sam, Marion-at-the-office, and Marion's-long-drive-to-her-doom.

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Consider The Matrix: it starts with a justly famous action sequence riffing partly on Vertigo's opening rooftop chase but then it takes 30 minutes to get Keanu the red pill and out of the Matrix and into the film's Real World. I've probably watched The Matrix 2 or 3 times right the way through, but on many more occasions I've started at the 30 min point (or even later, at a training sequence).

Or consider Alien: it takes 35 minutes for Kane/John Hurt to trigger the space egg and become infected/penetrated and 56 mins until we *begin* to understand the full consequences of that with the chestburster scene.

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Something I didn't much enjoy the first time I saw it...and I've never really seen it since...is the first half hour or so of the original Willy Wonka movie.

It takes a LOOONG time to get to the big tour that is the centerpiece of the film, and the star of the show (Gene Wilder, VERY much the star of this show)...and we're subjected instead to child actors and supporting players waiting for it.
"Candy Man" is a fine song, but sung by well...nobody much in particular(Sammy Davis got it later.)

So any DVD play of Willy Wonka in my home starts at the scene where Gene Wilder staggers out on a cane to greet his visitors...and does a forward flip....

PS. I realize that structurally, that long beginning is necessary to establish Good Charlie and the Bad Other Kids, and to establish suspense about who's gonna get the Golden Tickets. Its rather like Psycho, this way -- Psycho can't really START at the house with Marion arriving(yes, it did in the book -- but there were flashbacks first). You have to set up the story.

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As a filmmaker, there are brilliant shot by Hitchcock before Marion arrives at the hotel, but seeing the sequels (I love them all) when I get back to the original, I know Norman Bates, the house & the motel, is what I'm looking for...

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Of the sequels, only Psycho III -- which held the most fealty to the original in general (dead mother, Norman runs the motel, Norman commits the murders) really dared to make the audience wait awhile before getting to the motel. We were given a "Vertigo"-like opening fall of a nun from a bell tower and the "doomed young nun" who emerges guilt ridden from the death; her crossing the desert on foot for awhile; her being picked up in his trash-cluttered junker by overly friendly musician/bum Duane Duke(Jeff Fahey); their drive in the rain; his attempted sexual pick-up and her rejection of it, only to be thrown out of the car. The screenwriter(Charles Edward Pogue) and director(Anthony Perkins!) of Psycho III seemed hellbent on honoring the original in ways that Psycho II before it felt little use for. I respected that about Psycho III.

One thing about the original Psycho. If it had started with Marion's arrival at the motel....the movie wouldn't have lasted much longer than an hour. To some extent, the first half hour is "padded with scenes"(hotel tryst, real estate office, cop stop, California Charlie's) that help pump the movie up to feature length. Of those scenes, the cop stop and Charlies could be cut and the story would still make sense(we meet Sam and see Marion steal the money and hit the road) but the movie would STILL be too short.

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Recall that Bloch's novel begins in the Bates house, with Mother haranguing Norman for a few pages until Marion drives up. Hitchcock COULD have started the movie this way and gotten his "horror atmosphere" right off the bat --an opening shot on the house on the hill in the driving rainsorm.

But evidently Joseph Stefano felt the story could and should "begin with the girl," and I'm sure Hitchcock, as a master script plotter, realized that if he started with Norman and Mother in the house, he'd have to "hide" mother suspiciously from the start.

By starting with Marion and sticking with her for 30 minutes, once Marion reached the Bates motel we saw and heard mother through MARION's eyes(first seeing Mother in the window) and MARION'S ears(first hearing Mother yelling at Norman about Marion.) Thus Mother was kept at the proper "distance" and we could believe in her, more.

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Speaking of movies that take too long to get to the horror, I give you:

Carrie (1976.)

My love/hate/love of Brian DePalma I get into on another thread. I will here note that Carrie was the hit that put DePalma on the map(none of his movies before then got much of a mass audience), and is often called a classic.

There's a little irony here. Though much of the action takes place at "Bates High School," and little snippits of Herrmann's screeching Psycho violins occur during key sequences -- DePalma really isn't much copycatingt Hitchcock at all here. He's actually debuting Stephen King(who wrote the novel and was a nobody when Carrie came out) and his brand of supernatural horror to the world.

I excitedly went to the first night of Carrie's release when flyers were handed out at my school saying "See CARRIE -- Its American Graffiti Meets Psycho!" Well, American Graffiti was my favorite movie of 1973 and Psycho was my favorite movie of....all time....so I showed up.

And for the most part, I was pretty disappointed. I couldn't quite put it on my finger then, but subsequent viewings have revealed:

Carrie is a movie where it takes FOREVER for the horror to show up. Hitchcock's 30 to 47 minutes in Psycho here become more like...90 minutes? I mean, basically the entire movie is a build-up to the Bloody Prom...and a bit of horror action after it. But those build-up scenes rather go on forever.

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As with Halloween and Friday the 13th to follow it(which Roger Ebert said created the genre of "dead teenager movies"), the emphasis is on teenagers and Carries pushes to the max the day-to-day evil of Mean Girl dominance at high school. Adults are in woefully short supply. One of them is that lunatic religious fanatic who is Carrie's mother(Mother, again, is an issue), and the other is the understanding gym teacher who is tough enough to punish the mean girls(which only means the mean girls will punish Carrie.) Carrie's 2/3 is a high-pressure creation of a palpable desire for revenge ...and the payoff does come.

I wish to stay "on point" about the issue of Carrie's long build-up being much worse than Psycho's long build-up(which I like, BTW, just as much as I like the psychiatrist scene at the end), but I must say there were other things I didn't much like about Carrie when I first saw it in 1976.

One was the whole issue of Carrie's nutcase Mother. I recall Rex Reed -- that preening meanie of a film critic who is still, today, attacking movies like Mamma Mia 2(what is he, now, 90?) -- saying that Mother and Carrie were "mentally retarded" screeching overactors, and I agree with the second half of that. I'm not a big fan of hysteria on the screen. Its why I have problems with the third act of The Birds(the mother in the Tides; Lydia screaming at Mitch, Kathy screaming and crying) and why with Carrie I just couldn't stand being stuck with Mother and daughter. Compare that to Psycho, where things are kept cool and sophisticated and we meet folks like sexy cool Marion, and worried cool Sam, and polite cool Norman, and tough cool Arbogast. Only Lila is much of a hysteric(and for good reason), and even SHE stays pretty cool...and always tough. But Carrie and mom? Yecch.

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Another thing I didn't like was how long DePalma, built, re-built, and over-built the shot of the rope leading to the bucket of pig's blood positioned over Carrie's head. Here is a perfect example of how DePalma's suspense was far inferior to Hitchcock's suspense (and where I will wheel out my analogy yet again: DePalma would have sent Arbogast up those stairs for ten minutes in slow motion, and for five minutes falling down.)

Another thing I didn't like was...uh oh...the whole gimmick of "Carrie." Telekinesis. Which is another way of saying: "Magic." The movie boils down to "What if you could magically blow up all your enemies using your mind?" Hitchcock wasn't into that kind of magic, and neither am I.

Much as was impressed by the "moment of truth"(the blood spills on Carrie, her eyes bug out in monsterous fury; the split screens go nuts; everybody gets killed); the destruction of the prom felt a bit "pulled in the punches," almost like one of those Disney Flubber movies were characters are magically bounced to and fro. The most powerful death was that of the sympathetic female gym teacher; a basket ball backboard falls downward into her stomach and crushes her to death (in the remake, Carrie spares the gym teacher, I prefer this version, where the teacher is collateral damage.) The fire hoses turned on the worst of the Mean Girls seem rather harmless; I guess they are knocked out and die in the resultant fire.

Evidently, DePalma lacked the budget for Carrie's wholesale destruction of the town after destroying the prom; we get a rather "meh" killing off of Nancy Allen and...yes...John Travolta(Travolta has played a lot of villains in his older age, remember -- he started here.)

And then we get the "knives flying through the air" final killing of the evil Mother. Satisfying and funny -- that last knife "curlicues and spins through the air" en route to puncturing mom.


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And THEN we get the too on-the-nose match-up of Carrie's mother pinned in the doorway in death, to Jesus pinned on the cross(as kept in Mother's closest.)

A then-big Hollywood star was in my audience for Carrie: Jon Voight. And he yelled out at the Mother on the Cross shot: "Pure unadulterated bull--st." So I'll always remember that screening.

Carries saves one big scare for last (the hand coming out of the grave) and it got a big scream, that's for sure. I dutifully acknowledge this as one of the big "jump scares" in movie history, but I think it has to line up behind:

Mother coming at Arbogast
Alan Arkin's "not dead" leap at Audrey Hepburn in Wait Until Dark.
The head popping out of the boat in Jaws
The shark first popping out of the water in Jaws.
Tom Skeritt meeting the Alien in the tunnel.

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One more thing about a problem in Carrie that surprised me...and Hitchcock is "dead on point."

Family Plot came out in April of 1976, Carrie came out much later, in October of 1976.

So I saw Family Plot first. I recall LOVING the brilliant string of plot cues in Family Plot from when the doorbell rings to announce Madame Blanche's arrival at Adamson's house to the moment when he pushes the button on his automatic garage opener control and traps Blanche in the garage with him -- its about seven or eight brilliant Hitchcockian ideas in a row. Spectacular.

But after Adamson knocks Blanche out and hides her away and drives off to pick up the ransom...we get this EXCRUCIATINGLY long and drawn out sequence of Bruce Dern arriving at Adamson's house, walking around in an alley, checking the front door, squeezing through the garage window, rummaging around the house. It goes on forever, and I was demoralized: "Hitchcock gives us this great sequence of Blanche confronting Adamson and Fran -- and follows it with this interminable sequence with Dern?" I chalked it up to Hitchcock's age.

Well, 7 months later,, the much younger DePalma gave us an EQUALLY EXCRUCIATING, overlong and drawn out sequence of Carrie -- after destroying the prom --walking around her Mother's house from room to room, upstairs and downstairs, nothing happening until Mother finally appears. It hit me: "Brian DePalma in his 30s' could be as slow as Alfred Hitchcock in his 70's." And what had been something I could live with in Family Plot(because I so loved much of the rest of the movie), I couldn't tolerate in Carrie(because it had been such a long wait to any action at the prom.)

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As you can see, I'm not much a fan of Carrie. On point with this thread, one reason is how damn long it takes to get to "the good part." But there many other things I didn't like(Piper Laurie's performance as the Mother, the whole telekinesis angle, the letdown of the prom destruction sequence)

And yet, Carrie was a big hit --- likely, I suppose, because it provided a fantasy Revenge of the Nerd sequence that wasn't afraid to postulate the massacre of an entire class of high school kids(a lot less fanciful in today's era of school shootings.)

Carrie is significant enough in DePalma's career and 70's film history that I should note other fine films of that 1976 year of its release:

The Oscar Best Picture nominees(four of which are bona fide classics today):

Rocky(winner)
Network(my favorite of the Best Picture nominees)
Taxi Driver(other peoples' favorite)
All the President's Men(the DC press corps favorite) and

Bound for Glory(nobody's favorite, but it snuck in on Hal Ashby and Woody Guthrie)

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That said, my personal favorite of 1976 was:

The Shootist: John Wayne's tough and poignant final film, about a gunfighter dying of cancer. Guest stars James Stewart and Richard Boone took it WAY up in my personal estimation; its my favorite Don Siegel film after Dirty Harry and Charley Varrick, and...I love it.

That said, my second personal favorite of 1976 was:

Family Plot. Such a NICE movie after the sickness of Frenzy, albeit much less professional looking. The first hour is slow, but the second hour is spectacular, and Hitchcock's Final Lesson in structure and plot is the stuff of greatness.

That said, my third favorite of 1976 was:

Network. More prestigious than my personal favorites -- but still rather flawed when the writing gets too flamboyant ("I have primal fears!")

Carrie's not even on my radar.

But Marathon Man is. Its "North by Northwest meets Psycho(a gory wrong man spy thriller) with an all-star cast("and Roy Scheider as Marion Crane.") . And so is Silver Streak(a lightweight and jokey mashup of NXNW and The Lady Vanishes, with Richard Pryor showing up about mid-film to take it over and create a salt-and-pepper team with Gene Wilder.)

1976..a nifty year at the movies. With Hitchcock's last film, Wayne's last film, Herrmann's last films(Taxi Driver for Scorsese, Obsession for DePalma.) And all that great other stuff.

But not Carrie.

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1976..a nifty year at the movies.

Other good ones from 1976... mind-boggling political art-sex from Japan with In The Realm of the Senses, The Birds redone with Children from Spain in Who Can Kill a Child?, Herzog hypnotizes all his actors in the trippy Heart of Glass, Polanski freaks out in Paris in The Tenant, Bowie finds his great movie persona in The Man Who Fell To Earth, John Carpenter kills kids and lets his synth score do the talking in his distillation of Rio Bravo, Assault on Precinct 13. Clint is at his relaxed and romantic best in Outlaw Josey Wales (*almost* making Sondra Locke a star!), Bertolucci takes excess to excess in 4 hours of 1900 no one ever forgets. Wenders achieves art road movie nirvana in Kings of The Road. Woody was good, probably never better as an actor for Martin Ritt in The Front. Larry Cohen's God Told Me To is thrillingly out there.

Not Yet Seen By Me: Cria Cuervos (w. Ana Torrent from Spirit of the Beehive impressive again I hear), Mikey and Nicky (the only Elaine May I've not seen), The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (presumably inessential Cassavetes but need to check out). Ditto Visconti's last film L'Innocente. Truffaut's Small Change was one of his biggest hits, but is almost forgotten these days - what gives? And so on.

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swanstep swoops in with that great "internationale/independent" list of other 1976 goodies. The only good news for me is that I at least know the titles and read reviews about them. Or saw some of the mainstream ones listed that I missed, to wit:

Josey Wales was fine at the time and has only grown in reputation (and that was Clint's summer movie; at Xmas '76 he gave us another Dirty Harry and cleaned up.) Woody was great in The Front, never greater than when he was asked by the HUAC panel if he knew Zero Mostel -- "Do you mean, in a Biblical way?" -- and then told them they had no right to ask these questions and could go f themselves. Great scene.

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I would like to add these two:

The Sailor Who Fell From Grace with the Sea. In the middle of this handsome Panavision tragic love story(from a Japanese original, transplanted to the British coast with Yank Kris Kristofferson falling for British Sarah Miles), is a musical sequence that I recorded with audio off of cable TV and can now be found on YouTube. The title of the piece is "Sea Dream" - - if you go looking, you'll want the instrumental from the movie, not the version with lyrics by KK.

The beautiful musical interlude captures the lonlieness of KK's sailor -- far at sea -- and that of his lover, the widow Miles, landlocked upon the shore. Its the pain of separation at its most beautiful and poignant, and you want these two to get back together.

And they do. But the problem is, Sarah's son is part of a gang of schoolboy followers of a psychotic boy leader(Lord of the Flies in nice suits.) These lads cruelly kill and dissect birds, cats, and eventually....

What a horrible ending to such a beautiful movie getting there. And oh -- Kristofferson and Miles have some pretty graphic, but totally loving sex scenes. They recreated them in the pages of Playboy, nude -- and Kristofferson's wife divorced him. (She was singer Rita Coolidge, and oh the irony, SHE did a nude love scene with KK in Peckinpah's Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid in '73.)

If the sick horror movie insert scenes and the ending could be surgically removed from The Sailor Who Fell From Grace with the Sea, it could well have been the sexiest love story ever told. With the most gorgeous music.

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Also, from '76: "The Big Bus" was promoted as a "comedy spoof of disaster movies." Before the cast was announced, visions of Wilder and Brooks and Pryor danced in our heads(SNL wasn't a "thing" yet) -- but we got...Joe Bologna and Stockard Channing? And some guy with the last name of Beck. Can't remember his first name. Got a few movies and faded. HE was in Pat Garrett in '73, too.)

Oh, well...it WAS funny. I watched it a lot on cable. And Joe Bologna was funny. Universal had rejected Bologna as Spielberg's first choice for Chief Brody in Jaws(ouch), and he was good playing Sid Caesar under another name in "My Favorite Year," and he was funny in the Big Bus. Too bad nobody saw it but me.

And that's it from Mainstream Man to counter swanstep's far richer list.

Oh, dishonorable mention: King Kong. Jeff Bridges(hero), Charles Grodin(villain) and Jessica Lange are fine; the script is good. But the ape and the effects are just awful. A guy in a gorilla suit. A giant robot ape that didn't move right. Awful.

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But the ape and the effects are just awful.
It's amazing what a difference a year makes: 1976 in sfx-laden film is King Kong and Logan's Run, whereas 1977 is Star Wars and Close Encounters. The future of movies that had sort of been in the wind since 2001 and Planet of the Apes back in '68 was suddenly here.

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It's amazing what a difference a year makes: 1976 in sfx-laden film is King Kong and Logan's Run, whereas 1977 is Star Wars and Close Encounters. The future of movies that had sort of been in the wind since 2001 and Planet of the Apes back in '68 was suddenly here.

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I recall living through those two years of SciFi...and being amazed. It was clear that King Kong was clunky and corporate and -- worst of all -- cheapjack about Kong would be portrayed(let alone a paucity of dinosaurs to fight; one lousy giant snake.) The ailing/failing MGM promoted the hell out of Logan's Run, but it felt rather flimsy and "TV-movie-ish" too.

When Star Wars hit in the summer of 1977(even as news reports of an ever over budget and over schedule Close Encounters were in play) it was crystal clear: this movie was the best of its kind since 2001 and much more accessible to all ages. The "quality control" of the film announced a true artist in George Lucas -- the opening shot(incredible), the hyperspace leap, the various space battles and the final aerial attack on the Death Star. I walked out of Star Wars KNOWING that the movies had changed forever.

Close Encounters was a less "tight" project. It started off with a great sense of "a mystery to be solved" and moved on to a joyous light show with music. An artist was also involved -- Spielberg -- but I think Star Wars took a bit of his thunder away, and I think that Close Encounters had a "lumpy" and meandering quality to its storytelling that revealed the problems with giving Spielberg carte blanche after Jaws.

The miracle man of both movies was composer John Williams -- who did Hitchcock's Family Plot too! Williams would prove to be as invaluable to EVERYBODY as Herrmann had been to Hitchcock and Harryhausen.



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I mean, there was Williams music over Family Plot and DePalma's The Fury and Superman(his best and most exciting overture music, better than Star Wars, IMHO) and, earlier, the great Western music for John Wayne's The Cowboys and the great southern music for Steve McQueen's The Reivers.

Meanwhile, back at 1977: I recall with some amusement a disco instrumental of 1978 that fused the Star Wars and Close Encounters themes into a danceable ditty -- thus bringing two phenonema of 1977 together: space movies and disco.

Interesting, given the "tinniness" of King Kong and Logan's Run, that Lucas and Spielberg brought us their great SciFi effects epics only AFTER having proved themselves, with American Graffiti and Jaws respectively. I think this gave both men the power to make their more risky SciFi projects with studio confidence.

Of course, MY favorite movie of 1977 was the epic thriller, Black Sunday.

From John Frankenheimer. With great music by...John Williams!

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John Williams did his own 'disco' version of the Close Encounters theme - busy guy! It came on a separate 45 you got as a freebie with the official soundtrack album. It's on youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn62rCVyNQk

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John Williams did his own 'disco' version of the Close Encounters theme - busy guy! It came on a separate 45 you got as a freebie with the official soundtrack album. It's on youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn62rCVyNQk

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Hmmm...interesting. I listened to it...I don't think that's the one that mixed CE and Star Wars into a more "traditional" disco mix. But...Johnny Williams was indeed on the ball.

As I've mentioned before, Hollywood was such a closed shop in the 70's and 80's that usually these were the composers you hired:

John Williams
Jerry Goldsmith

...and sometimes

Elmer Bernstein(who'd been bigger in the 60s)
Lalo Schfrin(Don Siegel's favorite)

Henry Mancini, who OWNED the 60's, worked on every Blake Edwards movie through the 70s and 80s, and did some other movies, too(Silver Streak, The Seven Percent Solution.) But somehow Mancini seemed "on the fade" in the 70's, his time was over. (And he got famously fired off of Frenzy and his recovered Frenzy overture is far better than what is in the movie by the meh Ron Goodwin.)

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THe problem with CE is that Spielberg doesn't seem sure whether the film is about a secret government project or one man's quest for enlightenment and ends up as a mishmash of the two. Still, I prefer it to SW which I found cartoonish, and also don't like its influence on Hollywood films since.

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THe problem with CE is that Spielberg doesn't seem sure whether the film is about a secret government project or one man's quest for enlightenment and ends up as a mishmash of the two.

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Yes. And I think we both recall that after Spielberg released his first version of CE at Xmas 1977, he three years later in 1980 brought back a "special edition" that I really can't remember now except thinking it made MORE of a mess of the story (he cut some Dreyfuss scenes, I think, and added others.) He also got the money to put in his "big ship in the desert" shot.

Though Jaws is my favorite Spielberg film and well nigh perfect even though it was "jerrybuilt" and had lots of screenwriters, it seems to me that Spielberg really lost control of his narratives for quite a few years: CE, 1941, Raiders(yes, Raiders), ET, The Twilight Zone...Spielberg just never had that sense of story that Hitchcock and other "Old Guard" directors wanted. But he DID have great visual sense and he DID have John Williams to excite us and, one time, to make us cry really hard(ET.)

My "Raiders" beef. It is my favorite movie of 1981 for the nostalgia of how it owned that summer and how exciting it was, but I always felt the movie "peaked" with the fight under the Flying Wing and truck chase at the 2/3 point. AFTER that point, it just sort of rolled downhill to a finale that didn't much involve Indy at all.

Some later 80's action epics -- The Untouchables('87), Die Hard('88) and Batman('89) seemed to have it all over Raiders for narrative, pace and characterizations. Though I give Raiders points for all the historical/archeological/religious mumbo jumbo; it sounded intelligent.

And Close Encounters? The early "mysterious scenes" are great, the ending is a bit overlong, but John Williams came through BIG with the music as the big spacehip lifted off, and his famous "five notes" thundered in full, all out emotional orchestration.

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Still, I prefer it to SW which I found cartoonish, and also don't like its influence on Hollywood films since.

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Close Encounters indeed seemed more adult -- and Hitchcockian(complete with references to the crop duster and Rushmore in NXNW) -- than Star Wars. How Ford, Fisher, and Hamill delivered their dialogue was a bit hard to take (Sir Guinness escaped handily.) But I saw Star Wars weeks before its release, on the Fox lot, with a room ful of SciFi fans who seemed to hail its every frame as the Second Coming, and I pride myself with KNOWING this was where the movies were going to go.

One reason: Star TREK fans had been legion in my generation for years even after the show was off the air. They were waiting for SOMETHING...and Star WARS gave it to them.

Though I saw William Shatner doing an interview around the time Star Wars came out. Star Trek was long off the air and he was doing TJ Hooker and other stuff. Anyway, in his pushing for a new Star TREK movie, he said of Star WARS: "Oh, c'mon...you know WE can do better than THAT."

I saw Star Trek The Movie('79.) Wrong, Bill.

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Much like the early scenes of 'Vertigo' (which many say are slow and boring, with all that following around), I find the early scenes of 'Psycho' to be intriguing. They draw me into the story at large. And the background music is a big part of it. I have a personal opinion of the music while Marion is packing in her room which is 100% incorrect but it's how I see it, anyway.

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Much like the early scenes of 'Vertigo' (which many say are slow and boring, with all that following around), I find the early scenes of 'Psycho' to be intriguing.

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Yes, I would say they rather match up. Key characters driving around...though Scottie gets out on foot more. Add in The Birds where you get Tippi's drive from San Francisco to Bodega Bay and you can see a "Hitchcock theme" emerging: the car journey and its expression of protagonist's mental state.

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They draw me into the story at large.

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Hitchcock knew how to do that. I've seen the word "hypnotic" applied to his movies, and it rather IS the sensation one feels -- pulled into a world and focused on it, absorbed in it, surrounded by it.

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And the background music is a big part of it.

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Absolutely. Without Bernard Herrman scores, Vertigo is not Vertigo and Psycho is not Psycho. Just as without John Williams' scores, Jaws is not Jaws and ET is not ET. The role of the musical composers in creating the world of these classics...irreplaceable.

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I have a personal opinion of the music while Marion is packing in her room which is 100% incorrect but it's how I see it, anyway.

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I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate?

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Hitchcock knew how to do that. I've seen the word "hypnotic" applied to his movies, and it rather IS the sensation one feels -- pulled into a world and focused on it, absorbed in it, surrounded by it.

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'Hypnotic' is the word I almost used to describe Vertigo. I find the scene where Scottie is following Madeleine around to be among my favorites in the movie. Hardly boring. Irks me when people start conversations during that scene, because as far as they're concerned, nothing's happening anyway.

Funny, when I was a kid watching Psycho on TV with my mom, sister and a friend, during Marion's voice-over scene in the car mom suddenly blurted out 'I remember when I saw this in the theater and thinking what a BORING movie this is!'. Mom was a great movie-lover, but she didn't really care for Hitchcock movies.

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I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate?

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It's the notes. Short, choppy. Always going from higher to lower and back again. Seemed to me to be a musical representation of her state of mind. Fighting with her conscience. Sort of 'Do it --Don't do it'.



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Hitchcock knew how to do that. I've seen the word "hypnotic" applied to his movies, and it rather IS the sensation one feels -- pulled into a world and focused on it, absorbed in it, surrounded by it.

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'Hypnotic' is the word I almost used to describe Vertigo. I find the scene where Scottie is following Madeleine around to be among my favorites in the movie. Hardly boring. Irks me when people start conversations during that scene, because as far as they're concerned, nothing's happening anyway.

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The funny thing is, both Scottie's drives in Vertigo and Marion's drives in Psycho are "the essence of Hitchcock": he WANTED to spend that much time in cars with these main characters as they took in the world around them and, in Scottie's case, slowly began obsessing on a person.

A lot of Marnie takes place inside cars, too -- but with TWO people(Mark and Marnie), often driving in the rain(which reminds me of a few trips I have taken down the Eastern Seaboard of America -- it DOES rain, in the summer, creating its own "world.")

Some modern-day folks rebel against the process work in the cars in these three films. Modernly a camera is planted on the hood of a REAL car while the actors drive. But Hitchcock's driving scenes were made when that couldn't be done, and Hitchcock LIKED the "unreality" of these cars as "private worlds" within which Scottie, Marion and Mark and Marnie operate. (Might as well add in Melanie in The Birds on her drive to Bodega Bay.)

I read a psychologist's article about the "Marion drives" scenes in Psycho once, in which he postulated that driving hundreds of miles in a car -- in real life -- actually DOES hypnotize the driver, who becomes emeshed in the world created by being sealed into the car. And its a GOOD feeling, wrote the psychologist. The driver is rather in a "dream-like cocoon." Psycho captures this with the "Marion drives" scenes.



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Which reminds me: its been demonstrated that the act of watching a movie -- especially in a theater -- is a form of hypnosis. We stop "watching the moving images" and instead "enter the movie" -- it invades our consciousness and takes over our brain in a very hypnotic way.

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Funny, when I was a kid watching Psycho on TV with my mom, sister and a friend, during Marion's voice-over scene in the car mom suddenly blurted out 'I remember when I saw this in the theater and thinking what a BORING movie this is!'. Mom was a great movie-lover, but she didn't really care for Hitchcock movies.

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Well, my mother evidently first saw Psycho on late night TV and she reported to me(a pre-teen at the time) the next morning what she thought of it:

"The first half hour was the most boring movie I've ever seen in my life, and the rest of it was the sickest movie I've ever seen in my life!" And she told me I couldn't see the film until I was 18.

Funny how a movie given that assessment by my mother became...my favorite? Well...you had to be there. I expect the fact that she turned the film into "forbidden fruit" was part of it("You can't see it til you're 18.") And the idea that this was the "sickest movie she'd ever seen" had its own taboo allure.

As for the "boring" part -- well, at least I was prepared when I finally did see Psycho(a lot younger than 18; she caved), and I didn't find it boring because I was really enraptured by Hitchcock's technique and Herrmann's music(and Janet Leigh's beauty.)


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I have a personal opinion of the music while Marion is packing in her room which is 100% incorrect


----I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate?

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It's the notes. Short, choppy. Always going from higher to lower and back again. Seemed to me to be a musical representation of her state of mind. Fighting with her conscience. Sort of 'Do it --Don't do it'.ct but it's how I see it, anyway

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Aha. No, that's very accurate in terms of what Herrmann wrote for the scene.

Herrmann's "Psycho" score ended up on a few albums (ENTIRE albums given over to the score) and this piece of music was entitled(by Herrmann): "Temptation." One expects that either Hitchcock asked for it, or Herrmann viewed the scene and understood it was necessary.

On the album with those "piece titles," the music that accompanies Norman's most intense dialogue late in the parlor scene gets this title: "The Madhouse" (which accompanies Norman's discussion of "the laughter and the tears, and the cruel eyes studying you.")

Psycho has famous musical motifs(the screeching murder music, the credit music, the "three notes of madness" at the very end and elsewhere), but it is like ALL THE OTHER music cues are great , too:

The sad descent music over Phoenix in the opening scene.(Which returns for some scenes at the Bates Motel.)
The "different" sad music in the hotel room right after Sam says "all right."
"Temptation."
The murmuring, perverse music over Norman's clean-up of the bathroom and the body.
The music from Arbogast's return to the motel and up to his death. (Before he reaches the house, the music is rather brooding and then "loopy" and then...deadly.)
The music for Lila's climb up the hill to the house(very creepy...Van Sant put a "long version" of this music over his long end credits sequence.)

And so forth.

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Herrmann's "Psycho" score ended up on a few albums (ENTIRE albums given over to the score) and this piece of music was entitled(by Herrmann): "Temptation." One expects that either Hitchcock asked for it, or Herrmann viewed the scene and understood it was necessary.

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I was never aware of any albums of the Psycho score (but I used to record it while I watched the movie years earlier). Even though I never knew of 'Tempation', it at least makes me feel good that I picked up on that whole thing. ;)

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Hah! My parents, although conservative, never saw any reason to censor what movies we could see. They took us to see Rosemary's Baby when it was deemed a sin by the Catholic church. And it had (gasp!) some nudity.

They always thought, 'They're going to see it anyway, they might as well see it with us.'

Regarding the shower scene, we'd heard all about it. When the scene started mom was glued to the screen. When she saw how chopped and shortened it was, she said 'Oh, I see what they're doing. This is nothing like the real scene.' That only intrigued us more to see the REAL scene.

I don't remember the year, but the next time it was on TV -- late night movie -- it was intact. Every shot included. Including all the ambient sounds EXCEPT Janet Leigh's screams. They were missing. Even though I'd seen the whole scene, I still felt it was missing something.

And the next time I saw it, about a year later, it was all there. Screams intact. I'd seen the whole movie for the first time.

So it was interesting to me how I'd seen the movie progress from its initial showing (including a comment from an out of town aunt who, when we we told her we'd seen a scary movie on TV, said something like 'Oh! It was ON? It was cancelled in my area because some senator's or something's daughter had been killed'. We'd told her we saw Homicidal, not Psycho. Homicidal/Psycho... to her, the same.

So I'd seen Psycho four times before I ever saw it in the theater. On TV. The first 2 times chopped to pieces, the third time intact but without Leigh's shower screams, then finally including all. Don't know how that fits in with your remembrances but just wanted to tell you how it went around here. Cheers.

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Hah! My parents, although conservative, never saw any reason to censor what movies we could see. They took us to see Rosemary's Baby when it was deemed a sin by the Catholic church. And it had (gasp!) some nudity.

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It was "mix and match" for me. Not but a few months after Psycho was first shown on local TV and I was told I couldn't see it til I was 18...I DID see Bonnie and Clyde at the theater. Arguably more blood than Psycho(though gunfire, less "scary" than stabbing), and more sexual content.

And a little over a year after I saw Bonnie and Clyde -- I saw "The Wild Bunch." FAR bloodier than EITHER Psycho or Bonnie and Clyde.

I must admit, I had to "negotiate" to see these movies("The reviews say its a great film! My friends are getting to see it!) and I saw them with my father, generally not with my mother(especially any sex related things, like Frenzy and Deliverance, which were hard to watch even with my father.)

My parents couldn't much win. The "R" rating arrived not too long before my teens and decisions were made to go as a family to "R" rated movies sometimes, with father sometimes -- and (sneaking away to the drive-in) with my friends sometimes.

Its interesting to me to realize that I finally saw Psycho around 1970 or so --within two years AFTER seeing Bonnie and Clyde and The Wild Bunch first, and within two years LATER, of seeing Hitchcock's most sexually violent film, Frenzy, not to mention Dirty Harry,
Get Carter, Straw Dogs, Deliverance, and The Godfather. It was as if in my movie-going life, 1960's Psycho got "bunched together" with all the "new wave sex and violence" of the cusp of the late 60s/70s.


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They always thought, 'They're going to see it anyway, they might as well see it with us.'

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It always seemed to "depend" with the parents. If they had advance notice that a film had sex/violence, generally we young'uns weren't invited. But sometimes we were all taken by surprise by the content of a film.

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As far as Rosemary's Baby went, the parents went without us(the R rating wasn't here yet, but it had that "suggested for mature audiences" monicker.)

The more interesting thing that happened with Rosemary's Baby was that my High School English teacher assigned us the BOOK (without needing a parental permission slip) and when I brought it into the house, a low key argument occurred between my parents over that having been assigned. Dad: "Its fine." Mother: "Its not fine." One of them caved. I read the book(before I saw the movie, which is famously very faithful to the book.)

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Regarding the shower scene, we'd heard all about it. When the scene started mom was glued to the screen. When she saw how chopped and shortened it was, she said 'Oh, I see what they're doing. This is nothing like the real scene.' That only intrigued us more to see the REAL scene.

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Intriguing. Recall that I was forbidden to watch Psycho the first two times it played on LA TV(67 and 68), so I don't know how intact the shower scene was at all.

From 1970 on, it was a late night syndication broadcast and -- never cut.

Except one time, when I was visiting a state on America's East Coast: Virginia.

I caught a late night showing of Psycho in Virginia around 1973 or so which rather astonished me: the shower scene was heavily cut; the Arbogast scene went to commercial on the shot of the door opening a crack, and we saw Lila scream at Mrs. Bates in the fruit cellar...but we didn't see Mrs. Bates. (It was rather effective, really -- Lila screaming and us having to IMAGINE what's there.)

BTW, in the article to which I linked on another thread("The Second Most Important Post I'll Make" -- which was tongue in cheek), the article about CBS cancelling the 1966 showing noted that affiliates in two cities -- one of them was San Francisco -- saw the EDITED CBS version of Psycho(9 minutes missing, Herrmann's screeches played quieter) and refused to air the film even BEFORE Senator Percy's daughter was killed. Evidently the broadcast of a movie that even SUGGESTED a shower murder, a stuffed corpse, a sexually crazed killer....was too hot to handle.

So individual local censors could do what they wanted to Psycho.





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Came the 70's, of course, studios shipped to broadcast and local TV stations "edited for television" versions of R rated movies which were rather ridiculous(leading to the development of HBO and other cable channels.)

I recall this cussing from Bruce Dern to Barbara Harris in the edited version of Family Plot(PG):

"For rice cakes, Blanche!

And ABC aired Frenzy so that the rape was removed from the rape murder of Brenda Blaney and her strangulation was cut out -- with a freeze frame/fade out on "My God, the tie!"

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Yes, those sound edits were pretty funny sometimes. Like James Caan in The GOdfather:" I don't want my brother coming out of the bathroom with just a stick in his hand."

THere was a godawful movie with Elizabeth Taylor and Mia Farrow about perverted goings on in a creepy house. For network TV, they actually reshot half the film focusing on Taylor's runaway daughter who doesn't appear in the original, since after the censors got through with it, they needed to fill a lot of time.

I remember when A Clockwork Orange came out speculating with friends about what a network showing would look like. Probably show the opening scene in the milk bar and cut to Alex in prison.

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THere was a godawful movie with Elizabeth Taylor and Mia Farrow about perverted goings on in a creepy house. For network TV, they actually reshot half the film focusing on Taylor's runaway daughter who doesn't appear in the original, since after the censors got through with it, they needed to fill a lot of time.

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I remember that godawful movie. 'Secret Ceremony.' As I recall, it was so heavily censored that they filmed scenes of two spinster looking ladies (psychiatrists?) EXPLAINING what was supposedly going on in the plot. Concocting a new plot that had nothing to do with the original.

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I remember that godawful movie. 'Secret Ceremony.' As I recall, it was so heavily censored that they filmed scenes of two spinster looking ladies (psychiatrists?) EXPLAINING what was supposedly going on in the plot. Concocting a new plot that had nothing to do with the original.

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I think that Secret Ceremony is in the completion for the first "X rated movie"(though it was from Universal with major stars) and became quite infamous for its badness. This happened with a LOT of the first R and X rated movies; they were made by filmmakers quite unsure how to make movies with overt sexual content, and they rarely had good scripts. Midnight Cowboy was the Best Picture X-rated exception, but eventually re-rated to R, anyway.

NBC was one of the first networks to confront the issue of trying to show X and R rated films on TV, and Secret Ceremony was one of the first tests. Solutuion: shoot additional footage with other characters (not played by stars.)

NBC did this with a number of Universal films(Universal sent most of its films to NBC in a deal, including all the Hitchcocks from The Birds through Family Plot less one; Frenzy went to ABC.)

Anyway, the 1976 thriller "Two Minute Warning" with Charlton Heston posited a sniper waiting a long time, and holding off the police, until he unleashed murderous bullets on a pro football game at the LA Memorial Coliseum. Name stars like David Janssen and Jack Klugman enacted light "human interest stories" before falling to the madman's bullets.

In the NBC version, none of the innocents get killed (though a cop or two still do.) Instead, new footage was filmed with new actors (including William Prince, the kidnapped bishop of Family Plot) to enact an art gallery robbery using the sniper "just to fire random shots as a diversion." Charlton Heston actually filmed one scene in front of a wall, with a walkie talkie to say "I think this sniper is really a diversion for an art robbery across the street."


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As NBC had to do this to various R rated movies, the opening for HBO and for all "uncut movie" pay cable stations arrived...and eventually, the broadcast networks stopped trying to show cut or re-filmed features, at all.

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I don't remember the year, but the next time it was on TV -- late night movie -- it was intact. Every shot included. Including all the ambient sounds EXCEPT Janet Leigh's screams. They were missing. Even though I'd seen the whole scene, I still felt it was missing something.

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That's weird. On the Psycho special edition DVD, you can view the shower scene without the MUSIC, hearing ONLY Leigh's screams -- and the knife sounds -- and, sadly, at the end, very labored breathing on Leigh's part that I never heard before, as she slides down the wall and expires. (It communicates how a stabbing victim might well eventually lose the ability to breathe as heart and other functions are disrupted.)

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And the next time I saw it, about a year later, it was all there. Screams intact. I'd seen the whole movie for the first time.

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Interesting. I bet a lot of people had to "work their way up" to see Psycho "intact and uncut." Took years of viewings, sometimes. And today, its so MILD in its violence.

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So it was interesting to me how I'd seen the movie progress from its initial showing (including a comment from an out of town aunt who, when we we told her we'd seen a scary movie on TV, said something like 'Oh! It was ON? It was cancelled in my area because some senator's or something's daughter had been killed'.

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I guess that cancellation story got around -- I'll bet a LOT of people were interested in seeing Psycho on CBS and were bummed when "Kings Go Forth" came on instead.

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We'd told her we saw Homicidal, not Psycho. Homicidal/Psycho... to her, the same.

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There is(used to be?) a clip on YouTube of Hitchcock - the "great Hitchcock" -- sandwiched onto a couch with several other guests(including, I think, Joan Rivers and Steve Lawrence) with "the great James Brown" on the AFTERNOON Mike Douglas show. Its amazing to think of Hitchcock as "just another guest on the couch", but there he was. Anyway, this exchange:

James Brown: Mr. Hitchcock, may I ask a question?
Hitchcock: Certainly.
James Brown: When you made "Homicidal," who played the old lady?
(Hitchcock never corrects him, but Steve Lawrence tries: "You mean Psycho?")
Hitchcock: I can't tell you, because if I did, I'd have to kill you.

And everybody laughs. But Hitchcock was probably a little stung -- here's William Castle's cheapo "Psycho" knockoff "Homicidal" and James Brown thinks that's the Hitchcock movie.

But turnabout is fair play. Hitchcock partially made "Psycho" to make his own William Castle movie in the House on Haunted Hill tradition. Huckster Castle moved quickly to make an imitation Psycho in Homicidal (and a few years later, a second one, Strait-Jacket.)

What I DID like about Homicidal is how it started with a Janet Leigh-like blonde on the road and, about 20 minutes in -- SHE is revealed as the psycho; SHE pulls a knife and bloodily stabs a victim to death. You had to "know" Psycho to get the joke.


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So I'd seen Psycho four times before I ever saw it in the theater. On TV.

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Yeah, I think it was the same for me. I must admit, it was great to finally see the film "on the big screen." I recall Arbogast's staircase fall being more of something you "felt happening high above you."

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The first 2 times chopped to pieces, the third time intact but without Leigh's shower screams, then finally including all. Don't know how that fits in with your remembrances but just wanted to tell you how it went around here. Cheers.

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Cheers...and very interesting. Hopefully others can share their "Psycho" viewing history and what form it was in when they saw it, before finally being shown "intact and uncut."

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Cheers...and very interesting. Hopefully others can share their "Psycho" viewing history and what form it was in when they saw it, before finally being shown "intact and uncut."

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Interesting, indeed. The first versions you saw were even more truncated than the ones I did.

You said that Arbogast's murder went to commercial right at the upstairs door opening (right? Can't find it now) and that you never actually saw mother's skull.

All of those scenes were intact from my very first viewing. And to a kid, scary as hell. The only scene that was severely edited was the shower scene. It was very quick.

Picture this: The shots included in that scene were of Marion turning around and screaming, then ONLY the close ups of Marion's face and a few head-on shots of the knife slashing toward the camera. Nothing else.

One thing that was kind of a joke around here, to those who'd already seen the film was...

For a while it was shown edited 'for time'. During a commercial break. They removed the entire section from before Marion pulled over to sleep, right to when she's driving along the highway with the voice overs and the rain.

The problem was that to many seeing it for the first time, they thought it was a huge continuity error.

Why did Marion leave Phoenix in a black car, yet arrive at the Bates motel in a white one?

Also, just as an FYI, after the first time it was shown on TV here (back in 67 or 68), they re-ran the title sequence after 'The End' was shown. I guess to give it a closing title sequence. Or something.

Yep. This is interesting to me. I was never aware of how much local TV stations could pick and choose how they wanted to broadcast a movie. I'd thought that once an edit was decided upon, that's how it would be for everybody. Naive.

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Interesting, indeed. The first versions you saw were even more truncated than the ones I did.

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Well, not to mangle the history too much, this particular "fully cut" version of Psycho is one I saw some years after seeing uncut versions on TV. I think the difference was the state in which I saw the broadcast: Virginia. They must have had more stringent censorship requirements.

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You said that Arbogast's murder went to commercial right at the upstairs door opening (right? Can't find it now) and that you never actually saw mother's skull.

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Yep, that's what they did. I guess the Arbogast scene "lent itself" to fading out on the commercial, but they couldn't do that with the shower scene and the fruit cellar scene. Oh, I guess they could have cut to commercial on Mother pulling back the shower curtain, but that murder has a certain "momentum."

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All of those scenes were intact from my very first viewing. And to a kid, scary as hell. The only scene that was severely edited was the shower scene. It was very quick.

Picture this: The shots included in that scene were of Marion turning around and screaming, then ONLY the close ups of Marion's face and a few head-on shots of the knife slashing toward the camera. Nothing else.

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I've seen the shower scene done that way a few times on TV. When you come to think of it, Hitchcock was quite arbitrary in filming the stabbing for so long and so many angles. He seemed to instinctively know that he had to "go longer than ever before" to capture the horror of the slaughter(and to stun audiences, and to make movie history), and yet to know when to end it and have Mother leave.

The various TV edits to the shower scene seemed intent on reducing the number of stabs(from the "peak" of 11, I believe), to 3 or 4. Look in most movies to that date, ONE stab was enough to kill.





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Hitchcock's angles are interesting in the shower scene. You have the powerful initial "creep up by mother," then the shower curtain pull back(with the music coming on) and the close-up on Mother posing with knife upraised, then a shot I really like: a new low angle on Mother, looking up at her as she makes the first downward stab -- Hitchcock's way of saying "in the first shot, Mother was just posing to terrify Marion with her power, NOW with this low angle shot, the stabbing begins."

I expect those folks who edited down the shower scene kept all shots in the scene where stabbing does NOT happen(the shower curtain being pulled back) and made edits where stabbing occurred(how can you tell when those are? You can HEAR the stab...casaba melon, famously.)

And I think even the edited versions of the shower scene retained everything after Mother leaves...Marion's long slow slide to final death.

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For a while (Psycho) was shown edited 'for time'. During a commercial break. They removed the entire section from before Marion pulled over to sleep, right to when she's driving along the highway with the voice overs and the rain.

The problem was that to many seeing it for the first time, they thought it was a huge continuity error.

Why did Marion leave Phoenix in a black car, yet arrive at the Bates motel in a white one?

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That's hilarious, that kind of massive change.

But I tell you what, you've just hit a fertile vein of discussion: editing for TIME.

Local channels did this all the time, particularly when they had to keep a movie "tight for time"(say 6:00 to 7:30 pm.)

Here are some egregious Hitchcock memories of cuts for time:

North by Northwest. They cut everything concerning Roger and his Mother investigating. The movie stopped with Roger at the jail. Started up again at the UN. Never explained how he got from one place to the other.

North by Northwest: Cuts were made WITHIN the crop duster scene. It kept "jumping"(due to crude local hatchet editing), from Thornhill being dropped off, to the bus leaving, to the plane suddenly arriving and the chase and explosive climax. What was removed was what made the scene HITCHCOCKIAN: all that deadpan funny, waiting, waiting waiting for the crop duster to show up and the chase to begin.

Psycho: I too, have seen the film with cuts made to Marion's drive -- the cop AND California Charlie, one time, I think.



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Psycho: Now this one is interesting.

One time, I saw a version where they cut almost all of Arbogast's phone booth scene, after he asked for Lila. They didn't even leave in "Listen, Marion WAS up here."

The TV time cutters made a decision: who needs to hear all of Arbogast's talk -- the point is made: he's reporting his success to Lila.

And indeed in the 1964 film "Seven Days in May" -- as if in "response" to this Psycho phone booth scene, Martin Balsam gets into ANOTHER phone booth to report important information -- and director John Frankenheimer cuts away before Balsam says a word. We KNOW what he's going to tell...the President(before dying in the next scene, just like in Psycho but offscreen.)

So...IS the phone booth scene with Arbogast as "extraneous" as the infamous psychiatrist scene?

I don't think so, but 1960 supported the scene. Arbogast is fulfilling his "plot device" role: now Sam and Lila know to come to the Bates Motel to solve the crime(s.)

But the scene as we have it -- covered solely by Balsam's adroit acting and line reading(we never see Lila, we just hear pauses as Arbogast listens to her) -- is pretty good and does quite a few things.

For one, we get a take on Arbogast himself: he's honest, he wants to alleviate Lila's anxiety(and Sam's), he lays out not only that Marion was here, but the whole business about the young fellow who runs the place(and he says nothing negative ABOUT Norman) and his mother(a "clue" that will madden Lila and Sam as no one believes them about it.) He notes that he's "not entirely satisfied" and is going back to the motel to speak to the mother(uh oh...the audience leaps into terror mode...he just ESCAPED death...but he's going back?)

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And his final two lines are important: He'll be back in an hour...or less. And: "You'll be happy to know what I think. I think our friend Sam Loomis DIDN'T know Marion was up here." Thus, Lila can now trust Sam as an innocent, and not Marion's co-conspirator.

Thus, a good scene. Van Sant filmed ALMOST all of it, but cut the "back in an hour or less line" and that backfired later in his version when LILA says "Sam, he said an hour...or less" and WE never heard him say that.

Van Sant also cut Arbogast's comforting opinion of Sam, which was actually a helpful plot point too: the detective is telling Lila: "Trust Sam."

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But back to the edits for time, and the edits for violence, and the edits for language....

"Back in the day," my generation put up with all of that. We would take this movies as best we could get them. Better to see 80% of a classic, than none of it at all.

But soon came HBO. And VHS. And DVD...and that sacrifice was never necessary again.

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Also, just as an FYI, after the first time it was shown on TV here (back in 67 or 68), they re-ran the title sequence after 'The End' was shown. I guess to give it a closing title sequence. Or something.

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KABC TV in Los Angeles ran ALL its movies that way -- they didn't show the credits at the beginning, they chopped them off and ran them at the end. Including Psycho. And North by Northwest. Evidently, they felt credits were boring(WRONG.)

Worse, when they showed Psycho, they moved the opening credits to the end, AND they superimposed "local credits" over the opening shots over Phoenix: "Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho".....Anthony Perkins....Janet Leigh.

Like I said, we just had to put up with it.

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Worse, when they showed Psycho, they moved the opening credits to the end, AND they superimposed "local credits" over the opening shots over Phoenix: "Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho".....Anthony Perkins....Janet Leigh.

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I saw 'Hush...Hush Sweet Charlotte' like that once. They removed the entire prologue (all 15 minutes of it, including the dang murder) and started it in the study when Victor Buono was talking to Bruce Dern. With cheesy homemade titles superimposed over it. And nothing at the end except...'The End'.

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I saw 'Hush...Hush Sweet Charlotte' like that once. They removed the entire prologue (all 15 minutes of it, including the dang murder)

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Charlotte may be one of the first movies to have a VERY extended opening sequence (15 minutes) before the opening credits come on. This is an oddity to me (actually the same producer/director did the same thing with Baby Jane two years earlier) and I'm not sure what it means.

I'm watching a somewhat old TV series on streaming called "Justified," and it plays the same trick. Two or three of the opening scenes of the story BEFORE the credits open.

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With cheesy homemade titles superimposed over it. And nothing at the end except...'The End'.

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Well, KABC cut the opening credits, but invariably showed them at the end, in my experience.

The issue here is: the TV stations felt (after awhile) that opening credits were unnecessary, "got in the way of starting the story." I know modernly, BROADCAST TV series have been dumping extended credit sequences so as to sell "valuable" commercial time.
Seems counterproductive to me...aren't the theme songs of shows like Mission:Impossible, The Man From UNCLE...Starsky and Hutch...All in the Family...Hill Street Blues..St. Elsewhere..Cheers...part of what made them memorable?

Meanwhile, CABLE TV series(with no commercials to sell) gave us the great extended opening credits of The Sopranos and Mad Men, to name two.

"At the movies," truth be told, the great opening credit sequences of Saul Bass were soon deemed as "passe" as the great classical movie scores of Bernard Herrmann. Herrman got replaced by Mancini and Lalo Schifrin(before John Williams sorta brought Herrman back.)

But Saul Bass got replaced by...movies that opened in near silence(maybe a little music) with ONLY the title of the film put on screen before the story began: The Godfather. The Exorcist. Love Story(I"ve heard.)


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THAT said, such 70's films as Chinatown(especially) and Jaws have extended credit sequences with "mood setting" music. Chinatown does its credits over a 30's style credit roll; Jaws does its credits over POV footage of the shark underwater.

And I'd like to single out "The Towering Inferno"(music by John Williams) for a great opening shot (likely filmed by a helicopter) OF a helicopter making its way down the northern California coast until finally the Golden Gate Bridge comes into view and the chopper moves on past Fisherman's Wharf into San Francisco.

In some ways, that "Towering Inferno" opening shot and credits bests Hitchcock's acclaimed opening helicopter shot(with credits printed on the screen) of London for Frenzy.

With his sole two 70s movies, Hitchcock went for extended credits(over a helicopter shot) for Frenzy and then a "modified Godfather/Exorcist" for Family Plot, which opens with only four sequential credits:

ONE: Alfred Hitchcock's

TWO: Family Plot

THREE: Screenplay by Ernest Lehman

FOUR: Directed by Alfred Hitchcock

Hitchcock saluted his old NXNW screenwriter Ernest Lehman(later the writer producer of West Side Story, The Sound of Music , and Virginia Woolf) ...but threw his lead actors and ...John Williams!...overboard.

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As contrived (and cheap) as Homicidal was, I always found the first twenty minutes to be very intriguing. And it amused me when I noticed that two separate car shots during that segment were shot on exactly the same street, just from slightly different angles.

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The reason Hitchcock did this way is we think the film should be about Leigh getting away from a crime. But suddenly the story shifts from her to Bates. That is Hitchcock! Yes if u have already seen the movie and doing a repeat view we can cut to the motel.

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Man, I don't want to sound like a pain in the butt, but that's exactly why I like the first part all about Marion. I LIKE the fact that we're involved in Marion's story in the beginning, then the attention shifts to Norman after she's gone. I need to see the whole story, not just the story about Norman. True, it's almost like two different stories, but I enjoy them both.

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True, it's almost like two different stories, but I enjoy them both.

Quite a few movies have more or less self-consciously imitated Psycho's switch in primary POV. It would be interesting to systematically survey all the possibilities out there and to try to ascertain what works and what doesn't. One pair of cases I have in mind suggests a tentative moral: we accept this sort of shift more readily where it's clearly driven by narrative necessity, e.g., when our original POV character is dead. In De Palma's Sisters we spend the first chunk of the movie with Margot Kidder then Margot Kidder's date is murdered (probably by Kidder's twin sister) and our perspective shifts to Jennifer Salt (who's partially seen the murder from across the street). My sense is that this POV-change doesn't work as well, and that it feels artificial for us to move away from Kidder seemingly just to keep us in the dark for longer about what's up with her and her sister.

In Dressed to Kill, De Palma starts with Angie Dickinson as our POV, shifting to Karen Allen as the immediately imperiled lone witness to Dickinson's murder. This POV-shift, like Psycho's, is underwritten by necessity and doesn't trigger 'the director is jerking us around' gripes the way Sisters' transition does.

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In Dressed to Kill, De Palma starts with Angie Dickinson as our POV, shifting to Karen Allen as the immediately imperiled lone witness to Dickinson's murder. This POV-shift, like Psycho's, is underwritten by necessity and doesn't trigger 'the director is jerking us around' gripes the way Sisters' transition does.

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Yes, I suppose the Sisters switchover is more arbitrary and perhaps it is only now that I realize that DePalma used the same mechanism twice -- indeed, I think Sisters and then Dressed to Kill 7 years later are his two most "Psycho copycat films."

QT as a writer(with Robert Rodriguez as a director) offered a more jarring "fantastical" story split in the 1996 midnight movie cult film "From Dusk Til Dawn." Part One: Criminal brothers George Clooney(quite mean) and Quentin Tarantino(quite crazy) take a preacher(Harvey Keitel) and his two teenage kids hostage to drive them to Mexico. Once everybody gets to Mexico and enters a strip club -- at midnight -- Part Two commences: The strippers and some of the male customers turn into zombie-like vampires(ripping people to pieces, eating them) and suddenly the bad guys and the hostages(and a few "normal" male customers) must team up to stay alive "from dusk(or midnight) til dawn." Its the "Psycho split" on a whole new level, LITERALLY two movies in one, and given how mean (George) and sick(QT, who commits a rape murder) are as the villains in Part One, they never "jell" as heroes in Part Two.

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..funny, I feel the opposite. I like her scenes the best; she and Hitch made what could have been pedestrian, compelling.

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I think we need to remember here that while Psycho rather started the concept of the "thrill ride movie"(with a big shock every 20 minutes or so starting with the shower murder), Hitchcock was still working under a system of storytelling in which the ENTIRE story was meant to be of importance, and NOT EVERY SCENE had to be a matter of plot or shock.

In short, he gave all that attention to Janet Leigh's part of the story because -- it was part of the story. He couldn't just wing it and skim. He wanted us to be interested in Marion and her plight.

And as Janet Leigh noted, once she is dead and gone from the picture, everybody is talking about her ("Let's all talk about Marion") and we can't forget her.

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Leigh had a nervous quality which drew you in (even more so in her later acting); the best acting is when you're anxious to see what the actor is going to do (say) next. And Leigh never gave the impression that she was NOT saying her lines for the first time. She was emotionally-naked with her acting, unlike the one who the Oscar that year.

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Leigh had a nervous quality which drew you in (even more so in her later acting);

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Perhaps you are thinking of The Manchurian Candidate(her great first meeting with Sinatra on the train) and/or Harper(as private eye Paul Newman's long suffering estranged wife?)

Leigh also had a great VOICE...with a certain timbre to it that could suggest nervousness.

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the best acting is when you're anxious to see what the actor is going to do (say) next.

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That's a great point. And in her segment of Psycho, so often we see Leigh DECIDING what to do next, but rather pulled along by her own obsession. Deciding to steal the money. Deciding to switch cars. Deciding to check in at the motel(and deciding to stay there even AFTER learning that Sam is only 15 minutes away.) Deciding to hide the money in the newspaper(a key choice.) Deciding to have dinner with Norman. And deciding to have a "late night shower"(not everybody would do THAT.)

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And Leigh never gave the impression that she was NOT saying her lines for the first time. She was emotionally-naked with her acting, unlike the one who the Oscar that year.

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You mean Shirley Jones as the hooker in Elmer Gantry. Well, Shirley won for what Steven Rebello (author of The Making of Psycho) said was "an abrupt about-face as a trollop" -- several years of virginal sweetie pie roles in musicals and Va-Va-Voom!

All due respect to Shirley, but the years have proven the classic nature of what Janet Leigh gave to her role in Psycho.

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Perhaps you are thinking of The Manchurian Candidate(her great first meeting with Sinatra on the train) and/or Harper(as private eye Paul Newman's long suffering estranged wife?)
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And the Columbo episode, "Greenapple Road", "One is a Lonely Number".


That's a great point. And in her segment of Psycho, so often we see Leigh DECIDING what to do next, but rather pulled along by her own obsession
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As if she temporarily had OCD, with the panic-attacks confined within.


He wanted us to be interested in Marion and her plight.
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To be interested in her, she had to be interest-ed.


a system of storytelling in which the ENTIRE story was meant to be of importance
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As he repeated with 'the birds'.

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Perhaps you are thinking of The Manchurian Candidate(her great first meeting with Sinatra on the train) and/or Harper(as private eye Paul Newman's long suffering estranged wife?)
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And the Columbo episode, "Greenapple Road", "One is a Lonely Number".

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I've seen all but "One is a Lonely Number" and...you're absolutely right. Her Columbo killer is the only one that Columbo didn't arrest...because she was soon to die and her boyfriend confessed to buy time. Her role in "Greenapple Road" was a bold for a 1970 TV movie as her role in Psycho had been as a 1960 movie movie -- in "Greenapple" she plays a sexually promiscuous upper middle class wife who kills the lover who calls her a "whore"(a first for TV language.)

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That's a great point. And in her segment of Psycho, so often we see Leigh DECIDING what to do next, but rather pulled along by her own obsession
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As if she temporarily had OCD, with the panic-attacks confined within.

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That's a good description of the performance. I suppose the OCD moments include counting out the cash in the car lot restroom and so PERFECTLY folding the cash into the newspaper. Not to mention the whole thing about buying an entire new car for her escape.

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He wanted us to be interested in Marion and her plight.
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To be interested in her, she had to interested.

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Yes, Leigh truly acts her heart out here. I can't say that the untrained Tippi Hedren managed to pull off the same feat in The Birds. Of course the characters are different, and Melanie Daniels is driven by nothing more than man-chasing in HER drive to Bodega Bay, but...still.

Also unlike Hedren, Leigh appears three times in her underwear during her 40 minutes of Psycho time.

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a system of storytelling in which the ENTIRE story was meant to be of importance
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As he repeated with 'the birds'.

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Yes. Though -- says I -- to lesser effect. Hitchcock seems to have been emboldened by how he "got away" with Psycho running for 47 minutes before thriller shock arrived....could he do it again...and LONGER ...in The Birds?

Yes...and no! (As the psychiatrist says.)

Mad Magazine, of all places, called it. In their spoof of The Birds called "For the Birds," they have Tippi Hedren say this when the seagull hits her forehead:

Hedren: So, am I about to get horribly killed like Janet Leigh in the shower in Psycho? Nope, all that's gonna happen is this little bird is gonna bop me on the forehead (and even the "bop" was rendered comically, as if the bird drunkenly crashed into her.)

Rather than the "Psycho" strategy of one big shock(the shower) controlling the suspense of the movie, The Birds follows a strategy of one little thing after another happening, so as to slowly alert Tippi and the gang that "somethings funny about the birds" (Why'd that bird crash into the door? Why are all those birds on the wire?) until -- the birds really UNLEASH in the second half of the film.

I like The Birds very much -- I think it is a historic technical achievement -- but the Psycho strategy of taking time to set up the story simply didn't work as well this time.

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I like The Birds very much -- I think it is a historic technical achievement -- but the Psycho strategy of taking time to set up the story simply didn't work as well this time.
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True. I think maybe it was partly because it wasn't as simple, too much subtext from the beginning. Or that we really didn't need to see a given actor(s) progress from point A to B.


(and even the "bop" was rendered comically, as if the bird drunkenly crashed into her.)
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Ever notice the look she gives Mitch right before the bird attacks her, a cloying almost seductive gesture? (didn't work so well).

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True. I think maybe it was partly because it wasn't as simple, and one too many subplots from the beginning. Or that we really didn't need to see a given actor(s) progress from point A to B.

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Well, Psycho had in that opening -- some from the Robert Bloch novel, some from Hitchocck/Stefano imaginings -- such things as an opening "sex scene"(of sorts), Leigh in her underwear, a "caper," plenty of suspense(and a little humor) with the cop and California Charlie, and the jarring night drive and rainstorm.

The Birds was written "pretty much from scratch." Joe Stefano turned down writing the script because, he said, it was from a short story that was "short, but not a story."

So all that stuff about Melanie and Mitch and the sister and the drive to Bodega Bay and Melanie quizzing the older man in the store about Kathy and Melanie driving up to meet Annie -- was new and conjured up for the movie. There was no "underpinning" to it -- no source novel. And -- sexist though this may sound -- one movie after Janet Leigh "sexed up " a Hitchcock movie with her underwear scenes, here's Tippi all overdressed and lacquered.

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(and even the "bop" was rendered comically, as if the bird drunkenly crashed into her.)
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Ever notice the look she gives Mitch right before the bird attacks her, a cloying almost seductive gesture? (didn't work so well).

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Yes! Some have said that Melanie adopts a "bird like" head snap and fake pose...but really she's just showing off for Mitch...trying to act aloof while beginning her seduction. (Mitch, for his part, gets it totally -- "Aha, this babe has followed me up here...insulting her DID work.")

And THAT's when the bird pecks her as if to say..."not so fast!"

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Well, Psycho had in that opening -- some from the Robert Bloch novel, some from Hitchocck/Stefano imaginings
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You expressed it better. I edited my post to say "subtext" instead of subplots. The opening of Psycho (as you said) was stressful and dark already--for a reason. With The Birds, "characterization-overdose", perhaps. Yet, damn the critics: they will either find fault in not enough characterization or un-necessary characterization.


So all that stuff about Melanie and Mitch and the sister and the drive to Bodega Bay and Melanie quizzing the older man in the store about Kathy and Melanie driving up to meet Annie -- was new and conjured up for the movie.
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The difference is that there wasn't as much at stake with Melanie, like with Marion. All we know is that she wants Mitch, and will travel to find him. Of course, we already know horror/suspense awaits us; its' Hitchcock.

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Agreed!

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Ever notice the look she gives Mitch right before the bird attacks her, a cloying almost seductive gesture? (didn't work so well).

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Call us immature, but the first time I saw The Birds was the first time it was shown on TV (including the pecked-out eyes of the farmer, which was later edited out for many showings) with others. We were kids. The pecked out eyes made us scream and turn away. But to us, Tippi's 'seductive' look made us laugh because it was so ridiculous. She LOOKED like a MAD parody, before the MAD parody was done. I still smirk when I see it. I'll just say that in that shot, her inexperience really shone through.

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Nothing immature about what you said. Hedren could've just reined in her reaction a bit.
Whats interesting is that nobody else had pecked-out eyes after being attacked; Annie had one drip of blood on her face and she had been lying there for a while. Melanie also wasn't scathed that much physically.

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Maybe the pecked out eyes of the farmer was just meant to be the great shocker. I don't think the censors of the time would allow things to go too overboard. Annie had some blood on her face. And I don't think Tippi would've been shown to be TOO bloodied-up. She was the beautiful, blond star. Even the bandages put on her didn't make sense. They framed her face and there was a scratch here, a scratch there.

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Actually, as the story goes, Pleshette made a "suggestion" to Hitchcock to mangle her ear on the left side of her face for a more graphic effect; he sends her to the make-up dept. to achieve the effect-- then films her from the opposite side. Sounds like it was all done with jest.

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@MizhuB. Back in 1980 Cinefantastique magazine had a great The Birds article which included a bunch of screen test photos of Tippi's face-wound makeup:
https://svapicsandmags.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/0439_001.jpg
The photos are revealing about what Hitchcock saw in her and perhaps about his own demons. Basically, the more attacked (but unbandaged) she looks, the hotter Tippi gets - sex and violatedness are disturbingly entangled. The bandaged-looks represent something different; the hair's back under control, not hot; it's Melanie completely tamed, desexualized, turned back into a nearly mute child for Lydia to comfort. Or something.

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