I have a theory that Judy Garland, Kathryn Grayson, Marilyn Monroe, Dinah Shore, Kay Francis, and Ava Gardner all passed for white, most likely along with a whole host of others. Anyone have any theories or know anyone else who did? I am doing a report for sociology! Thanks.
shareHalle Berry.
She tried passing as white when she was breaking into the business. Then when she won all her awards (for the Dorothy Dandrige movie - which was excellent) she accepted the award "for all women of color" WTF? After years of trying to pass, now all of a sudden she's a proud black woman? That seemed like a slap in the fact to her white mother. I never liked her much after that.
...Horse Hockey...Halle Berry has always been proud of her African American background and played strong black women long before she played Dorothy Dandrige. She played the title role in "Alex Halley's Queen" back in 1992. Her black background was the reason she fought so hard to make the Dandrige movie. Pyschically she couldn't pass, but even if she could, like Frdi Washington during the thirties and Lonette McKee in more modern times, she would reject the suggestion she should be something other then what she is.
Just remember: I was as good as any and better than most-Vincent Freeman in Gattaca
Yeah, I was like wtf? Halle NEVER tried to pass, have you never seen an early film of hers? For the longest time, I didn't even know she was biracial; she couldn't pass if she wanted to! haha
I forgot to add, Adriana Lima the Brazilian supermodel and Jessica Alba. Adriana (I believe) has spoken openly about her heritage, while Alba seems to discredit hers far too often...
...Hollie Berry started her career on "Amen" with Sherman Hensley (from "The Jefferson's"). Then she appeared on two episodes of(Bill Cosby's) "Another World", set at a black college, playing a character named Jaclyn. Her first movie role was that of Vivian, an inner city drug addict in Spike Lee's "Jungle Fever". If she was trying to pass for white she was doing a bad job of it given the parts she went out for...Also I don't know much about Adriana Lima, I guess much of the population is mixed in Brazil, but Jessica Alba's father is Mexican and her mother is French and Danish.
Just remember: I was as good as any and better than most-Vincent Freeman in Gattaca
I agree. Berry is very proud of her heritage. Look at the speeches she made when she won her Oscar, and the awards she won for "Presenting Dorothy Dandridge".
However, I find a subtle, insidious prejudice going on through this thread. People are being accused of "passing" by supposition. No one really knows if any of these celebrities being discussed were of mixed blood or not. And playing the guessing game reveals a lot more about the posters than about the people they're guessing about.
"Don't worry. I'm not on the side of the saints yet."
wow have a harmless discussion and people get all defensive about it....people were just hypothesizing and theorizing nobody here was being malicious with the discussion. thats why we can't talk about race openly because people get explosively hostile about it. get a f*king grip already...
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porn star Reagan Reese is actually black, but is usually billed as white for some reason. and she exclusively always have white partners.
shareI never noticed billing that includes the actor's race. I must have missed it. So, it's really White George Clooney in "Brother, Where Art Thou?" and White Helen Mirren in "The Queen"? I'll have to pay more attention to movie credits.
"Don't worry. I'm not on the side of the saints yet."
I never noticed billing that includes the actor's race.yes porn stars race usually are billed.
Prior to reading the biographical fineprint, Wentz, Diesel, and Miller are all perceived as white, by young suburban girls.
I've seen a photo of Pete Wentz father. He doesn't even have as much of a quadroonic look as the "race exploitative" commentators like George Stephanoupoulus, Geraldo Rivera or Jon Stewart. He's fully perceived as a Nordic type. I haven't seen his mother. But, I would submit that for her son to be perceived generally as white, what is the obligation for any person of non-Hispanic, non-South European or Middle Eastern, with fractional African ancestry versus that of say an Hispanic, Middle Easterner or a non-Nordic white like George Steph. to ezplain their non-Nordic phenotype. Are we going to henceforward ask them to explain and elaborate on the historical Afro-mixtures in their respective countries? Why is the American born person of quadroonic appearance so heavily pressured by a few but vocal "closeted" cadre of various sorts, into ancient continental categorizations associated to "race", while others with similiar profiles, but designated as Hispanic, Greek, or Middle Eastern, allowed to pass without being guilted, editoriazlized, condemned or the like.
There are so many liberals who are at the ready to support Gay identity and freedom issues (which I happen to applaud) but are biting at the chomp to mire racial discussions in everthing from the Bradley effect to the ODR.
Why is the American born person of quadroonic appearance so heavily pressured by a few but vocal "closeted" cadre of various sorts, into ancient continental categorizations associated to "race", while others with similiar profiles, but designated as Hispanic, Greek, or Middle Eastern, allowed to pass without being guilted, editorialized, condemned or the like.well thats simple, its called "colourism". middle eastern, Latino etc, are far more Anglo looking than people who have a Caribbean/African background. so it doesn't really matter if they except their background or not. because they get a pass anyway because of their skin tone. for the darker persuasion its a different can of worms. its easier to be EVERYTHING ELSE except black. so its a situation that still divide light and dark complected black people to this very day. share
I always thought that both Dodi Fayed and his father, King Hussein and his children, Anwar Sadat, Sadam Hussein's youngest sons were/are very mulato looking. No?
And actually, most people that I know who are Caucasian, are dumbfounded that people who look like Mariah Carey should be considered in the same racial group as a recent non-white African. Racial classifications are inconsistent, and really serve no purpose other than to redistribute priveledges and perks to foreign born people of color from American born Anglos. And yes, Latinos and Middle Eastern people, as well as Africans would fall under that category.
And actually, most people that I know who are Caucasian, are dumbfounded that people who look like Mariah Carey should be considered in the same racial group as a recent non-white African.Only because many caucasian people seem to develop historical amnesia when their rules no longer benefit them and they decide to change them. That is all.
Racial classifications are inconsistent, and really serve no purpose other than to redistribute priveledges and perks to foreign born people of color from American born Anglos.Foreign born and domestic people of color, and if their exist privileged to be "redistributed" that means a particular group must have historically had an irrational amount of said privilege. But I'm sure that doesn't bother you.
And yes, Latinos and Middle Eastern people, as well as Africans would fall under that category.Eventually when the Latino category is no longer used, that will change. share
I always thought that both Dodi Fayed and his father, King Hussein and his children, Anwar Sadat, Sadam Hussein's youngest sons were/are very mulatto looking. No?you say that like it disprove my point. mulatto or what have you is still seen as acceptable in comparison to Wesley snipes, or Bernie mac (god rest his soul)
Racial classifications are inconsistent, and really serve no purpose other than to redistribute priveledgesthus the point of passing lol share
Bernie Mac, is/was easy on the eyes. Nice round face, beautiful smile. Smooth skin. Poor choice.
And the children of Wesley Snipes are very beautiful. Another poor choice.
I believe that the characteristics that stigmatize Africans and African Americans have less to do with skin color and more to do with BMI, neck length, and hair texture. Skin quality is of some importance. But, probably more in the way of pore aize and skin tone consistency. Which may explain the fascination with the Ethiopian women, as a good chunk of them, have nice hair texture, beautiful neck lines, thin, and beautiful skin with small pores. Some of the same features that we see in Zahara Jolie Pitt.
I believe that the characteristics that stigmatize Africans and African Americans have less to do with skin color and more to do with BMI, neck length, and hair texture. Skin quality is of some importance. But, probably more in the way of pore aize and skin tone consistency. Which may explain the fascination with the Ethiopian women, as a good chunk of them, have nice hair texture, beautiful neck lines, thin, and beautiful skin with small pores. Some of the same features that we see in Zahara Jolie Pitt.
Invariably, Citizen Sue, the more you post the more you reveal abyssmal ignorance.
Anyone that knows anything about African American women know that black women have beautiful skin tone. Black women are renowned for the smoothness and soft texture of the skin.
Yes, black women are beautiful. But, unfortunately, the skin tones have to be evened out in some cases.
shareI'm surprised you're not bothered by their "brillo hair". And I didn't realize black women generally have uneven skin tones. Sigh, even when you try you fail.
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Bee25
A good chunk is s fine enough qualifier for me. Pity that it doesn't meet you standard of quantifications. Ironic though, that you saw fit to say that most people generally have uneven skin tone- which is vague to the point of meaningless. How uneven Bee? That's like saying everyone has to be careful of sun-damage. But yet we know those of fairerst of skin tend to need the most protection.
Well most people generally have uneven skin tone, for example our faces are darker in complexion than the rest of our body and women are particularly lighter around the chest area due to bra wear. Also pore size is an aspect that is very individualistic - therefore to generalize that a "good chunk of Ethiopians have small pores" is well...absurd.This woman has probably never met an Ethiopian. She's not a dermatologist, so just no that most of what she writes will be some off-color assesment she made from watching tv and arguing on the internet all day. share
jennifer beals...even though she is biracial...i dunno if anyone said anything about it, i wasnt interested enough to search through 9 pages to find out.
shareI'm black, grew up around my family who believe it or not, are also black, I've been to Ethiopia, know plenty of white people and I KNOW that it is an individual assessment that is necessary to make those of judgments. And Ellen Sue, how do you know that a "good chunk" of Ethiopians have small pores? Have you been there to assess these people's pores? Ethiopians are as diverse as any African or American Black person or white person. You cannot make a generalization based on that. Otherwise it would be fair to say that white people are plain and ugly because I've seen a "good chunk" who are. Anyway, that's way off topic.
As for people "passing" my husband and I were talking about that last night. I wonder if it still happens. The actresses mentioned were in a time where that was the easier thing to do so it's understandable if they did. I do believe that Vin Diesel may be "passing." He is obviously mixed with something. Why be ashamed today? Times are changing and people should demand more. I believe he would still be desirable if he were to be honest about his roots. If people have a problem with that then he didn't need them to begin with. I don't know what to think really. On one hand I don't believe it should matter what people are but on the other hand I think people should be proud of what they are.
.......To virgo9984......Most on line biographies for Vin Diesel, including IMdB, describes his background as half African American and half Italian so its not like it has been kept secret......At the start of his career Vin Diesel wrote directed and acted in an idependent film, now on U-Tube called "Multi Facial"(1993) in which he plays a biracial actor that impresses everyone with his ability, but no one seems to know what to do with......At the beginning he tries out for an Italian role. When that doesn't work out he goes to an audition for a commercial. A much more visably black suggests he's not what they're looking for, but a opening is coming up in a Hispanic oriented commercial. Later he tries out for Cuban role, but runs into trouble, because he can't speek Spanish. He goes out for another black part, but while the producer his impressed he tells an assistant, after he leaves, that he wants a "Wesley (Snipes) (dark skinned)type"......At the end he tries to get a job in rap video. When he is asked to talk about himself he talks about watching his father in a production of "Raisin in the Sun", when he was a kid, and how back then he had wanted to be a great black actor to. His father had told him to be a great actor period; not just a great actor.....Again he doesn't get the job once again, because he is too white to be black. As he sits in a restaurant he overhears a girl, in the next booth complane about her coffee being too light to be dark and he mouths the words......Spiellberg was so improsed by Vin Diesel in this movie that he cast him in an Italian-American role in "Saving Private Ryan". Since the military was segregated during World War Two it would have been impossible to cast him as an African American. He again played an Italian in a gangster movie.....Most of the characters he has played are somewhat racial ambiguous. Many of us know people like that who are clearly mixed, but we don't really think about it. In the "Fast and the Furious" he's a street racer or in "Triple X" he played an extream sportsmen, both characters that were clearly multi racial, but it doesn't mean anything to the plot or the audience. "Pitch Black", and its sequals, are set so far in the future it would be hard imagine race having any meaning.
Joe the plumber is right.
What? lol Were you sober when you wrote this?
What's more dangerous than sincere ignorance?
..............Actually I was clean and sober when I posted this................Simply put if Vin Diesel had ever wanted to pass for white he wouldn't have made a very personal independent film about the problems of being a light skinned black actor who is considered too light for most black roles and is often caste as other ethnicities.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YszYwOyAfw
True genius is a beautiful thing, but ignorance is ugly to the bone.
Vin Diesel has always been open about being mixed. The main issue has been black reporters asking him why he says he's mixed instead of saying he's black, implying that he does so is because he wants to deny his black heritage. To say that one is mixed is an acceptance of identity and not a denial thereof, so the complaint that he is trying to pass is stupid.
share..............Theora23: I thought I was the only one on these boards who still remembered the short lived "Max Headroom" series................To get back to the subject Vin Diesel became controversel because he excepted roles like the Italian American GI in "Saving Private Ryan" all though it would be professional insanity to turn down such a high profile role. In movies like "The Fast and Furious" and "Triple X" he played characters whose racial backgrounds were not integral to the story. The question is do his critic's want him to play stereotypical home boy rapper types before they are satisfied..............Wenford Miller has the same problem. He made his mixed background obvious with his role in "The Human Stain". As a result there has been a running debate about whether his character, "On Prison Break" was supposed to be black or white. Does it mater.
True genius is a beautiful thing, but ignorance is ugly to the bone.
He plays an Italian-American guy in "Saving Private Ryan", a black guy in "Pitch Black", and a bunch of racially ambiguous guys. Seems completely reasonable to me, given his background.
shareHalle Berry.
She tried passing as white when she was breaking into the business. Then when she won all her awards (for the Dorothy Dandrige movie - which was excellent) she accepted the award "for all women of color" WTF? After years of trying to pass, now all of a sudden she's a proud black woman? That seemed like a slap in the fact to her white mother. I never liked her much after that.
Wow - better not start a thread about gay actors "passing" for straight!!!!
"Stone-cold sober I find myself absolutely fascinating!"---Katharine Hepburn
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It's true that Channing appears "white" but she is a mixed-race woman, not a white woman. Appearances are only appearances, in my humble opinion. There are quite a few light complected people of Black heritage who one wouldn't know were anything but white (including myself), and who on the other side are extremely open about their Black heritage and bloodlines. It's not extremely surprising to me that Channing is part-Black, actually, because I've seen so many pictures of African-Americans who are indistinguishable from her, and these are light-skinned folks who haven't passed. Black people can look like everything from a Halle Berry AND a Carol Channing. I speak from personal experience and also from the color variety in my own Black family. :)
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porn star Reagan Reese is actually black, but is usually billed as white for some reason. and she exclusively always have white partners.pornstar Reagan Reese is actually white, Puerto Rican AND black. but yeah she's usually billed as white for some reason. hell her Latino background gets acknowledged more than her African American background. i think the industry is trying to pass her as white. but to be fair she never really objects to this either, considering she says she's white on her myspace page lol. (which is kinda sad actually... share
Hillary Duff's mother is Malaysian.
shareThat's like half of hollywood though since it's beginning to the present.....if not gay at least bi to some degree.
What's more dangerous than sincere ignorance?
Is it an urban legend, or did Dinah Shore have a colored baby? I had hear that her husband at the time left her as a result. How disgusting.
"I love corn!"
i'm not trying to be rude here .. but do we say colored anymore i thought it was offensive?
"Nope, no sex scandals yet. But I am open to offers!" ~John Cusack - Well I'm offering! ~sarah
The word "colored" is offensive? This whole thread is offensive! I'm thinking the whole thing is a joke! Dinah Shore was black? Marilyn Monroe? Who cares? Brace yourselves folks, a (half) black man will be your next president.
.....Oh come on. John McCain isn't black.....It ain't over till its over dude.
People are just getting dumber, but more opinionated-Ernestine (Silks) in "The Human Stain"
True
RIP Paul Newman
No, but he does have black McCain relatives--he tries to say they only share his name, but the black relatives are sure the DO share blood which makes McCains great great great great grandaddy most likely a rapist of black women. Denial ain't jus a river in Egypt.
share...........Ok, McCain's great, great, great, great grandfather used to sneak over the slave quarters and take advantage of the ladies. Ok, John McCain has black relatives. Most of us have watched "Roots", "Alex Haley's Queen" or some slave Gothic movies no one wants to admit to watching and like the saying goes the best blood in Georgia runs threw the cotton fields. Keep in mind Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and Al Gore all had ancestors who owned slaves. Obama even has ancestors on his mothers side which is ironic when you think about it............Anyway the election is over McCain lost, Obama won and he will be taking office less three weeks from now, as the first black President or at least the first known black President. I believe the current term is chill.
Remember Tuesday is Soilent Green Day.
It could have been consensual, you never know, Massa McCain could have been hot.
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http://www.xboxlc.com/cards/blue2/GPjessica73.jpg
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Andrew--I'm not rowled up! I don't need to chill! Gothic slave movies? Hmmmm..what have you been up to?
share..........It was new years eve; what do you expect...............Anyway I had just visited the Kathrine (Kathy) McKee/Artist Network site while researching a posting on anther thread on the "Pinky" site. She was discussing her role in "Quadroon" which was supposed to be a slave Gothic movie so I was thinking about the subject. The one time I saw it on the late show in 1977, all of five years after it was in theaters, it seemed to be more about New Orleans scenery, fighting duals at sunrise and bad Creole accents then the reality of slavery. Maybe something was lost in editing it for TV. Anyway Kathrine looked good on the poster on her site............As for McCain I strongly doubt he has any problems with having black relatives.
Remember Tuesday is Soilent Green Day.
No--Mccain has no problem--he simply refuses to acknowledge them! He won't go to the family reunions or interact with them--they've stated it publicl and his brother has also publicly stated that he's annoyed--but even his brother won't admit what their great grands got up to in the slave quarters....
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............If the rest of John McCain's family socializes with the black McCain family family. I can see where their might have been accused of trying to get the black vote when he was running for President, but I doubt he's planning to run again............I suppose the two McCain families could be related. There was a lot of that sort of activity in those days. Sometimes slaves took or were given the name of the family that owned the plantation. The only way to prove anything would be a DNA test. That's how they proved the relationship between Sal Hemmings and Thomas Jeffereson was much more then a political rumor.
True genius is a beautiful thing, but ignorance is ugly to the bone.
He couldn't have gotten the black vote if he was black......
shareDUH!!!!!
share.....it is.
What's more dangerous than sincere ignorance?
I am not too sure about Judy Garland or Marilyn Monroe, inasmuch as they were of Irish and Scandinavian ancestry respectively.
I am not familiar with Kay Francis.
I have heard that Dinah Shore, born in Tennessee, was rumored to have a degree of African-American ancestry, and I would not be surprised to find out the same about Kathryn Grayson or her fellow North Carolinian, Ava Gardner.
You know I don't have a problem with theories such as these but I find that to make such a statement, one should have some kind of facts to support it. The only one I can believe that may have been part black is Ava Gardner. I've read Love is Nothing by Lee Server and have researched Ava. She had mentioned on more than one occassion that she was part black and of course the biographer "discredited" this theory. Go Figure.
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Thou Shall Not Crave Thy Neighbour~ HBO's TRUE BLOOD
[ Judy Garland, Kathryn Grayson, Marilyn Monroe, Dinah Shore, Kay Francis, and Ava Gardner ]
I really have no idea how you came up with these women. I have heard Dinah Shore is part black but other then that I see no reason to think any of the others are. I've no doubt they are mixed races but not part black.
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The way I see it, it doesn't matter any more these days if you are truly white or not. Some stars don't talk about it much, that doesn't mean they try to pass as white. Eva Longoria, Jennifer Beals, Jennifer Lopez, Jessica Alba, Salma Hayek, Javier Badem --- none of them are 'pure white', but nobody focuses on that. I personally love this trend.
shareWhat the hell does it matter? Does any of this speculation and inanity diminish the talent these people possess? Let's just move on.
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