I have a theory that Judy Garland, Kathryn Grayson, Marilyn Monroe, Dinah Shore, Kay Francis, and Ava Gardner all passed for white, most likely along with a whole host of others. Anyone have any theories or know anyone else who did? I am doing a report for sociology! Thanks.
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I hardly think that Marilyn Monroe passed for white. She was ALL white......now on the other hand maybe Ave Gardner....she does look a little dark. In the final scene from Show Boat(1952) she is standing on the dock waving good-by and she is turing more black as she got older. Of course her character in the film (Julie) was suppose to be 'passing for white'..but who knows maybe Ave was passing as well !
shareMarilyn Monroe was illegitimate and did not know who her father was. Her natural hair was kinky, they shaved her hairline, and her original nose looked like it could have been african american.
shareI've seen very early pictures of Norma before she was ~Marilyn~ and all that, and she comes off as Irish, not Afro-American.
Let's just say that God doesn't believe in me.
Wow, I just looked up Merle Oberon on imdb and on her profile, it says that she used to tell visitors that her mother was the MAID to hide her Indian roots! How terrible!
Merle was very ethnic in appearance, IMO.
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What's the scoop on those two? I'm betting most of those who were aware or sensed that Merle wasn't 100% white didn't mind closing their eyes to it, since they likely found her very attractive. They prob wouldn't want to 'admit' they found someone of color to be a beautiful woman at that time.
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Do you think Errol did this with the intention of destroying her or was it that he didn't approve of her lying? He had to know that 'outing' her could lead to the end of her career. Did any of this actually result in damaging or ruining her career? I'm not all that familiar with her, other than recoginizing the name and what I've read here on imdb.
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I honestly had no idea that Errol Flynn was from Tasmania until now, either. I'm surprised that the rumors didn't damage her career, though there's no telling how badly bruised her psyche was, after so many years of living a lie. I wonder how her poor mother must have felt, as well. I would have hated to have been in her mom's shoes, always feeling as though I were the embarassment of my daughter's life.
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I think that's exactly why those who knew/suspected didn't say a word. How awful and mind boggling. She would still be the same person with the same looks and the same personality and same sensuality.... but because she's no longer 'caucasian', she's 'east indian' she's now damaged goods? that is screwed up.
http://dvdtoile.com/ARTISTES/5/5173.jpg
there is no way this woman is white. and any man who wouldn't lay the pipe to her because she's east indian instead of white needs to just come out of the closet.
here's more on merle from answers dot com:
"Oberon was born in Bombay (now Mumbai), India. Her mother, Charlotte, was an Anglo-Sinhalese nurse; her father, Arthur, was a British railway engineer. Merle was her mother's second child. Charlotte had abandoned her first daughter, Constance, and refused to take care of another child born out of wedlock. She insisted that Arthur marry her, although it is not clear if he actually did.
In 1914, when she was 3, Merle's father died of pneumonia on the Western Front in the early months of World War I. Mother and daughter led an impoverished existence in shabby Bombay apartments for a few years. Then, in 1917, they moved to better circumstances in Calcutta (now Kolkata). Merle received a foundation scholarship to attend La Martiniere College for Girls, a well known Calcutta private school. There, she was constantly taunted for her unconventional parentage and eventually quit school and had her lessons at home.
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As she entered her teen years, she dated increasingly older, urbane men.
In 1929, she met a former actor who claimed he could introduce her to Rex Ingram of Victorine Studios. Merle jumped at the offer and decided to follow the man to the studios in France. However, when he saw Merle's dark mother one night at her apartment and realized Merle was mixed-race, he secretly decided to end the relationship. After packing all their belongings and moving to France, Merle and her mother found that their supposed benefactor had dodged them. However, he had left a good word for Merle with Rex Ingram at the studios in Nice. Ingram liked Merle's exotic appearance. She was quickly hired to be an extra in a party scene."
What a horrible life. No wonder she insisted on 'white', and her mother played along. Her mother sounds like she was treated like an American slave, good enough to screw, not good enough to marry. Then Merle is dating these older guys when she's just a kid herself...
I wonder if this man slept with her before deciding she wasn't good enough to marry. And I wonder exactly what the 'good word' was this jerk left for Rex to convince him to use her as an extra.
IMO she's one of those people where I wouldn't have known she wasn't unless someone told me to be honest. Pretty but looks like a unmixed white woman to me even though she has some admixture.
What's more dangerous than sincere ignorance?
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I feel that people shouldn't even be posting these things in this way. It sounds as if people are saying that it is a disgrace to be Black or Indian or any aboriginal type. I am a caucasian person, yet I can almost see the wheels in the minds of all you people turning; you all don't want to sound racist, yet you somehow manage to put a racist point across in a subtle way. I understand that back in the early stage of movies it was shameful to be of a so-called 'different' kind, but you are making it sound as if the same goes for now.
On a different note, I think thats horrible about Merle Oberon. I had heard that about Vivean Leigh, but I don't believe it's true...and to the poster, how you think Judy Garland is a differnet race than white?
__claire__
Hi,one can never be too rich or have too many friends. I think the poster was referring to the rumor that Judy Garland was supposed to be jewish,not black, A stigma back in the day,I suppose. In a book about Louis B. Mayer,boss of MGM,he didn't like Judy Garland at first because she was short,ugly and jewish looking,even though he was jewish and pushed the Aryan ideal on the movie going public. Despite his wealth and power,it angered him that he couldn't get his daughters into exclusive Los Angeles girls schools because they were jewish.
I've gotta question too - "What's it to ya?" Back in the day, I'm sure this was the big gossip and it might have been a situation under the old "Studio System" but today - not an issue.
Many actors and actresses are playing a variety of parts because they can. Because of the trailblazers before them. That is one reason why I am NOT a fan of this film. It's an old way of thinking, an old way to express racial hatred under a sentimental banner.
I've said it before and I will say it again: actors are actors. All should work, all should play different parts to show their ranges and no one should complain about any actor getting a part because that is their JOB. Sure, I'd like to see Hispanic Actors in Hispanic Roles and Black Actors in Black roles, and Asian Actors in Asian roles but even more, I'd like to see an actor in a role that makes me believe they are what they're playing.
Proud IMDB member since 1998 with the same name.How about you??
These actors who are one race but are characterized as another are being misconstrued. They never came out and said they were white actors. People just assumed they were white based on their appearance. It's not fair to say they are passing. These people do not deny nor emphasize their race because they do not want their race to be an issue. Passing is a conscious action. It is done in an effort to deny who they are in order to assume another race identity. I dont see these actors doing that. I am sure if u asked them what their nationality, race, heritage, etc. is they would wholeheartedly say it, but who asks? NOONE. Everyone just assumes people are who they appear to be. Do not judge them because they are not saying, "Hi....my name is Cameron Diaz and I am half latin, half white." That is obsurd. No one introduces theirself in that manner and no one expects them to. Choosing to not run down the list of ur heritage is not "passing". It in no way reflects a feeling of shame. As far as Tiger Woods is concerned...I used to get pissed too, but I learned that he was right. People like to claim those who "look" like they do because what they see is a successful and achieving possibility (that could be me or someone I know...someone I can identify with) ....its racial self identification. When he said he wasnt black, black people felt insulted...as if he was denying us, but he was merely trying to include all of the elements of his heritage. We cant fault him for that. It is society that encourages passing by labeling people. If you look black, they deem u black. if u look white, u are white. If u look mixed, then ur just mixed and they judge u based on who u date, what type of movies u make, what type of music u make and who u associate with....i.e. Mariah Carey.....she makes a video with P.Diddy, she hangs with Da Brat, she's rumored to be dating Derek Jeter (who is half black)....suddenly she's a r&b artist. Next album....she sings with 98 degrees, hangs out with Demi Moore and dates someone like Jake Gyllenhal and all of a sudden she's pop. Christina Aguilera dyes her hair black and gets a tan, remakes a few of her songs in Spanish and now we say she's a Latin Bombshell? Yes...she is half latin, but at first she was an All-America blonde haired blue eyed darling. So....passing is enabled by the labels that we allow society and ourselves to put on those in and out of the limelight.
share"Passing"? So, if someone is half white, half black, looks white, and is assumed to be white, they're "passing". Yet if they go around saying they're black, even thought they're half white and look white, that's correct.
shareYou are absolutely right! I used to judge people who would say things like, I am half this, and that and 1/3 this. But the truth is we all are mixed up and a lot of us don't know our ancestry. Altough my family is all mixed up, when people see me they see a black woman. So I could never relate to someone who looks different. But we can respect them and appreciate that all races have great qualities. It is sad, because we are all of the human race. Ignorance seems to prevail.
sharehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_Eve
shareThe thing is this still goes on, but people shut their eyes to it.
sharepeople are also passing "subconsciously" because they want to fit in.lets not forget that actors change their ethnic sounding name to something more presentable when they move to Hollywood,.lets not play dumb people.
shareMerilyn Monroe Mother was Actually Mexican but people didnt know that since she was adopted
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