Watching a Nice Place to Visit.
with Sebastian Cabot.
shareThat is one of my favorite episodes... Rockys hell would be ok with some people..
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I get the twist they were trying to portray, but you're correct. That kind of hell at the end of the day (or life) wouldn't be all that bad compared to the biblical one.
"Wouldn't be all that bad"? That's a huge understatement. It would be awesome; hard to think of any better way to spend eternity. The endless supply of beautiful ready-and-willing women with no strings attached would be infinitely and enormously entertaining in and of itself. All of the best food and other luxuries on top of that is a nice bonus, not to mention never aging and never having to worry about dying or your health at all regardless of how much you, e.g., eat, drink, or smoke. He could have whatever he wanted except for real risk/danger, and that was his problem with the situation? The vast majority of people don't want any risk/danger in their lives whatsoever.
shareI suspect that if hell was really like Rocky's hell, people would be doing all sorts of things to guarantee themselves such a fate...
No wonder they don't put that in the bible!
All of the best food and other luxuries on top of that is a nice bonus
Every once in a while, my wife and I treat ourselves and *split* a piece of cheesecake from a local bakery that really nails it. The thought of being able to eat a huge hank of that stuff whenever I want with no long term medical ramifications is the stuff of dreams - or heaven.
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In the end it would be that bad. Serling and Charles Beaumont (the episode's writer) displayed a perfect understanding of human nature here. People go insane during long periods of isolation. This is a situation where the victim is stuck in his own personal hell. Sure, it's physically comfortable, but over time, you can see how utterly meaningless everything is. There is, there can be no challenge, no difficulty, no struggle. Rocky will just get what he asks for, forever. Forever, and ever, and ever. Eventually that will grow simply unendurable, no matter how much you have enjoyed it your whole life. Think of your favorite meal. What is it? Pizza? Sushi? Filet Mignon? Chicken Marengo? Cookie dough ice cream.? Cinnamon Pop Tarts? Whatever it is doesn't really matter.
Now imagine that's all you can ever have. Breakfast lunch and dinner, that's it. That's all you get. Within a month you'd be sick of it. Within a year, you'd be ready to puke every time it's offered to you.
Now imagine eternity. After ten thousand years, you'd have just as much time ahead of you as after ten thousand million years.
It only takes a little imagination to see how incredibly hellish this would be.
Exactly. This is why rich and famous people who have everything kill themselves.
shareI pretty much have everything I want in life right now. If I could have that for eternity *plus* a few other things (like not worrying about health) I'd sign up now. I don't see a problem.
Regarding the screenplay, it's not explained otherwise, but Rocky could simply ask for any and all of those games like billiards or craps being strictly games of chance. What they should have written in was for Rocky to ask for the games to be on the level and Pipp telling him "sorry, you always wanted to be a winner so you win every time", or something to that effect - but they didn't.
Think of your favorite meal. What is it?.....Whatever it is doesn't really matter. Now imagine that's all you can ever have. ..That's all you get.
But the story wasn't written that way. Rocky could have anything and everything he wanted - he wasn't confined to a single favorite food (which certainly would be hell if that's all one could ever eat). If I could have whatever foods I wanted and didn't have to worry about health or weight, I'd be in heaven. I'm 66 and fortunately in excellent health, but to maintain my weight, I have to watch every freaking thing I put in my mouth. I eat once a day - dinner and then a small snack when my wife and I are watching Jeopardy.
Pizza? Two slices and that's it besides a large side salad. Cheese cake? A half slice at most when I do allow myself that luxury, and then I eat that very slowly. If I was Rocky, I'd be face down in a whole New York cheesecake from Stage Door. They have to do the Heimlich on me several times a day.
Rocky's plight is in a way a bit like Phil Connors in Ground Hog Day. Phil did go through hell and then found acceptance and I think learned to enjoy the hell fate was putting him through.
The point is that even though this particular customized hell was supposed to drive Rocky crazy, it wasn't written with enough rules to ensure he would, which is what we're talking about here. As written, it wouldn't be that bad and certainly better than the biblical hell of being cast into flames for eternity.
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I pretty much have everything I want in life right now. If I could have that for eternity *plus* a few other things (like not worrying about health) I'd sign up now. I don't see a problem.
Then you're simply not thinking through all the implications. You are the very type of person for whom the phrase was coined: "be careful what you wish for; you just may get it."
But the story wasn't written that way. Rocky could have anything and everything he wanted - he wasn't confined to a single favorite food (which certainly would be hell if that's all one could ever eat).
And this is why I used the example of a single type of food being available: just to speed up the time frame and thereby make it easier to grasp how weariness would inevitably set in. Yeah, Rocky can have whatever he wants, but two problems: 1) none of it's real, and he knows everything is meaningless, and 2) there will eventually come a point when, no matter what he asks for, it won't satisfy, because he's done it all before. There would come a time where there is no experience left he can have which he hasn't had thousands of times already. Eventually that will become tens of thousands. Hundreds of thousands. He's going to get suicidally bored and depressed, but he has no way out.
The point is that even though this particular customized hell was supposed to drive Rocky crazy, it wasn't written with enough rules to ensure he would...
Sure it was. You just have to think through all the inevitabilities.
And in fact, this is a problem I have with any conception of an eternal life: it just doesn't fit human beings. Unless our minds, and our basic human nature were so altered we really aren't human anymore, there is no eternal life where this wouldn't become a problem. share
Eventually that will become tens of thousands. Hundreds of thousands. He's going to get suicidally bored and depressed, but he has no way out.
Would that be less preferable than that same eternity stoking hell's furnace? That was the main point we were making. If we go further, would Rocky be much happier in heaven which, according to the canon of this episode, was the alternative. Even if the games weren't rigged and the babes not a sure thing, would he not still get bored doing the same thing for eternity?
But by accepting your argument of eventual boredom which is certainly logical, we have to assume that at some point, any and all humans will get tired of existing even if we exist beyond the corporeal existence we have right now. Will we? Maybe you're right, but I'm not convinced.
And in fact, this is a problem I have with any conception of an eternal life: it just doesn't fit human beings. Unless our minds, and our basic human nature were so altered we really aren't human anymore, there is no eternal life where this wouldn't become a problem.
We're getting away from a sci-fi screenplay and I'm going to preface what I say with two things - I am an atheist by nature (agnostic on a good day) but I've always been good at playing devil's (heheh) advocate. If we are to assume our "soul" survives the eventual death of the bag of meat we're all trapped in, I would assume we'd also leave behind those human "qualities" that come prepackaged with the body as well, such as hatred, jealousy, fear, anger, and yes, boredom. I think these qualities are packaged with our bodies, not our "souls" (again, assuming they exist).
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We're getting away from a sci-fi screenplay and I'm going to preface what I say with two things - I am an atheist by nature (agnostic on a good day) but.... If we are to assume our "soul" survives the eventual death of the bag of meat we're all trapped in, I would assume we'd also leave behind those human "qualities" that come prepackaged with the body as well... I think these qualities are packaged with our bodies, not our "souls" (again, assuming they exist).
That's just it: if we "leave behind those human 'qualities' that come prepackaged with the body as well, such as hatred, jealousy, fear, anger, and yes, boredom," then we are not human anymore. Whatever we would be would be something non-human, that might happen to have a bunch of memories about things it can no longer understand completely. I don't think I like that. And I don't think I want to lose most of what I am.
But -- and I am also an atheist -- I really just don't believe there is a soul. I agree with Carl Sagan, who said “I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking." I think that when we die, that's it. Light out. The end. We are simply over.
On the one hand, that might seem daunting. After all: it will, if you think about it, mean you might as well never have existed. You have to have consciousness to be aware of anything, and if that consciousness is extinguished, there will be no awareness to remember your life. There won't be anything left to remember what your life was.
But if you think about it, that's really for the best: after all, as I described, I think that for us, eternity, whether good or bad would become unbearable, because we aren't made for it. share
I don't think I like that. And I don't think I want to lose most of what I am.
Let's put it this way - have you ever noticed that while you're asleep and dreaming, things that don't make a lot of sense happen (even truly bizarre things) and yet during the whole time the dream is occurring, it never occurs to us that it is a dream until we awaken? During the dream, that reality seems perfectly normal.
During that time asleep, we are actually a different people, but when awaken, we are far more aware. What if (just for argument's sake) after death, we "awaken" and are freed from the bag of meat that confined us to one tiny spot in the universe and confined our thought processes. Our consciousness is now free to be anywhere in the universe at the same time, or perhaps a universe that is not only nothing like we know here, but one we can't even conceive?
Our first thought after reawakening might be to weep at what we were and pity anyone still confined to that one tiny spec of reality, in a bag of meat that not only feels pain but negative emotions.
I would sign up for that even though right now my mind can't conceive what that next stage will be.
I guess today I'm an agnostic..
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