MovieChat Forums > Kakushi-toride no san-akunin (1960) Discussion > Inspiration does not equal Plagerism

Inspiration does not equal Plagerism

posted 18 years ago by Nick_Goldman
16 replies | jump to latest

Where would filmmakers, musicians, artists, and even construction workers be without some form of inspiration? Yes, I am a Star Wars fan, but I am also annoyed at how much Star Wars is talked about on this board. If anything, The Hidden Fortress. All amateur filmmakers are inspired by something else, even the very first filmmakers. Star Wars was George Lucas' take on many different films, books, and mythologies around the World. That's it. That's all that should be said on the topic. After all, why do you think people enjoy the films so much? It very well could be that we recognize those characters, stories, and trials from other stories we've come to know and become accustomed to.

This film, The Hidden Fortress, should not be associated with Star Wars, but rather the other way around.

I hope that settles all the silly bickering on this board.

Post responsibly.

[–] Big G-2 18 years ago

THE HIDDEN FORTRESS was just one of many, many inspirations for STAR WARS. Hey, just go to the LOTR boards, where several have the impression that without Tolkein's books there would absolutely be no STAR WARS, and of course, that is quite a false argument.

But in regards to your statements, it seems that you are trying to deny any influence whatsoever which would also be a false argument. Why shouldn’t SW be talked about on this board considering all the scenes and influences (or do you think it all just a mere coincidence?). Influences and scenes are there, so why not discuss?

[–] Nick_Goldman 18 years ago

Never said that. I'm saying that it's ok to be influenced by other things, which is what people on this board are fighting. At the same time, it's rather annoying to read about Star Wars every other post, when this is a board for The Hidden Fortess. When I read about Spider-man, I don't wanna read a bunch of stuff about Batman. See where I'm going with this?

Post responsibly.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] daronimo 18 years ago

Vetch-2 maybe I'm overstepping my bounds, but I make this suggestion to you, if you don't want to participate in or "bored to tears" of the Star Wars/Akira Kurosawa connection you could just avoid such threads. Hell start your own threads with the disclaimer of "No Star Wars discussion in this thread! All such comments will be reported as abuse." or something like that. Also there is some passing similarity between "March of the Ewoks" and the main theme of "The Hidden Fortress" but in this case I think it is completely unintended. John Williams generally writes his own themes in isolation.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] daronimo 18 years ago

Vetch-2 don't take what I said as some sort of insult, I just made the point that if it bothers you so much you can do something about it. Also why must you try and go on the defensive all the time? I would perhaps be more empathetic to your concerns, but like certain other fellows on these boards you feel that you always have to personally attack others? You know nothing about me, other than I happen to like Star Wars, so stop assuming stuff it makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me".

These are public forums which people come and freely join at different intervals. Once again this is not intended to be taken as an attack or insult but has it not occurred to you that not everybody may be aware of the Lucas/Kurosawa connection and could be discussing this for the first time? Yes it is just one point of interest when it comes to the works of Kurosawa (and Lucas for that matter), but it seems to be a dominant theme even in literal criticism. Every review I've read on the "The Hidden Fortress" mentions (generally in more than passing length) the connection, so I find it natural (even if it is an overbearance) that it should be a highly mentioned point of discussion.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] tmf_scipio 17 years ago

"John Williams generally writes his own themes in isolation."

Really? ever listen to Mars from Gustav Holst's planets?

Listen to Mars, then listen to the attack on the Death Star in A New Hope.

smell like SH** for the rest of the day....not kidding, this stuff is the best you can buy!

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] timmy_501 17 years ago

First of all, those fanboy idiots probably would not be aware that Kurosawa exists at all. If seeing this movie encourages a few of them to see more great films, that has to be a good thing.

Next, Lucas helped get Kagemusha, one of Kurosawa's later films, made. Now, that is actually my least favorite Kurosawa films, but he might have never made another film after Dersu Uzala if it weren't for the efforts of Lucas (among others). For this, Lucas should be commended.

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[–] Pharaoh-in-de-Nile 17 years ago

Agreed, doubly so when 'Kagemusha' is one of my favourites.

I actually like the 'Star Wars' films (mostly the older ones) so not all who like it are uneducated, rabid-fanboys. I also like Kurosawa and, possibly his chief influence, John Ford.

I do wish that 'Star Wars' fans would aknowledge Kurosawa though, he is one of the greatest directors in film history, and Lucas is pretty much a Kurosawa fan with a camera!

P.S. I do think that this board does get filled up to much with 'Star Wars' topics...I generally don't read them.

"Nothings gonna change my world!"

[–] timmy_501 17 years ago

Yeah, I like Star Wars too, but there are some rabid fanboys out there.

I've heard a lot about the influence of Ford on Kurosawa, but it's hard for me to see it, possibly because I haven't seen many Ford films.

There are worse things than being influenced by Kurosawa. Every director has been influenced by past directors. If you are going to draw heavily from a director, it might as well be a master like Kurosawa.

PS: Nice play on words with "doubly so" about Kagemusha

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[–] Big G-2 17 years ago

I've heard a lot about the influence of Ford on Kurosawa, but it's hard for me to see it, possibly because I haven't seen many Ford films.

It was visual style - surroundings and backgrounds, and how to show it from a certain perspective. Both directors did it with great effect. Ford used Monument Valley as his background in many of his features.

[–] Pharaoh-in-de-Nile 17 years ago

"Yeah, I like Star Wars too, but there are some rabid fanboys out there."

Agreed.

"I've heard a lot about the influence of Ford on Kurosawa, but it's hard for me to see it, possibly because I haven't seen many Ford films."

Fair enough. The user above has said it better than I can so I shall not repeat it!

"There are worse things than being influenced by Kurosawa. Every director has been influenced by past directors. If you are going to draw heavily from a director, it might as well be a master like Kurosawa."

Agreed. If I were looking for a director to draw heavily from it would either be Kurosawa, Kobayashi, Kubrick or Terence Fisher. It does make the most sense.
Though I always try to be as individual as possibly, with my art, I have to admit it is hard, nay impossible, to not be influenced by anyone. It is true what they say about nothing being 100% original.

"PS: Nice play on words with "doubly so" about Kagemusha [] "

Thank you. I'm glad you picked up on it!

"Nothings gonna change my world!"

[–] daronimo 18 years ago

Agreed. Unfortunately it won't stop the petty bickering, and nobody who criticises Lucas seems to have a problem about how much John Ford's influence can be seen in Kurosawa's films!