MovieChat Forums > Kakushi-toride no san-akunin (1960) Discussion > 2 things I did not get

2 things I did not get

posted 19 years ago by legolas05
9 replies | jump to latest

There are two scenes in this movie that quite bothered me. The first one is right after they cross the first border with the three horses. After they leave( once Mifune has misguided the enemy into looking for the gold in the fortress and left) some soldiers come back to tell the guard at the border that the princess had been seen with 3 horses and 3 men. It can clearly be observed in the face of the guard that he has no doubt that the pesants that justa passed them had been the princess and her guards. now the question is, why didnt they go after them to capture them? i mean, they just had past like a minute before the soldiers arrived, how far could they get in a minute????

the other thing is after Mifune battles Tadokoro and leaves, no one chases him, they just let him go back. I found that weird as well. Anyone has any opinions why these two events where left like this?

[–] pogo_sport 19 years ago

Here are my opinions/comments on your questions. The first question in regards to the guard at the border. I think the reason why Princess Yuki and company were not gone after is because no one would dare think that a person such as the princess, would be traveling the way she was, dressed the way she was. Something like that would stick out. But some peasants just making their way across the border from point A to point B is nothing new. This is why Mifune preferred that the princess remain silent among outsiders, as to not give away her nobility.

Now as in regards to your second question, regarding the duel. General Makabe was a great general. From the movie we are told (and can see) that he is a general respected and feared by all whom have heard of him. General Tadokoro seemed to have a somewhat similar reputation. It was mentioned in the film that these two also had battled against one another at one point. The duel between the two was a duel of honor and to see whom was the better fighter. You have to also remember both these men (Makabe and Tadokoro) were not just proud generals, but they were samurai. The duel was a contest of two highly skilled samurai. Had the lesser samurai, the other guards, gotten involved the fight would not have meant the same. Also, there is the fact that Makabe needed to make sure that Princess Yuki could travel as far as possible in the amount of time he created while having his contest with Tadokoro. Those are just my opinions though, I'd love to hear others.

[–] legolas05 19 years ago

"I think the reason why Princess Yuki and company were not gone after is because no one would dare think that a person such as the princess, would be traveling the way she was, dressed the way she was. Something like that would stick out. But some peasants just making their way across the border from point A to point B is nothing new. This is why Mifune preferred that the princess remain silent among outsiders, as to not give away her nobility. "

But what bothered me still remains. You can clearly see recognition in the guars face as they tell him about the princess. You can see in his face that he knows that those were the princess and her companions. If that look of recognition had not been there, it would have been ok. But he knew, and he still let them go.

"General Makabe was a great general. From the movie we are told (and can see) that he is a general respected and feared by all whom have heard of him. General Tadokoro seemed to have a somewhat similar reputation. It was mentioned in the film that these two also had battled against one another at one point. The duel between the two was a duel of honor and to see whom was the better fighter. You have to also remember both these men (Makabe and Tadokoro) were not just proud generals, but they were samurai. The duel was a contest of two highly skilled samurai. Had the lesser samurai, the other guards, gotten involved the fight would not have meant the same. Also, there is the fact that Makabe needed to make sure that Princess Yuki could travel as far as possible in the amount of time he created while having his contest with Tadokoro. Those are just my opinions though, I'd love to hear others."

That explains why they didnt atack Makabe during the fight. That does not explain why ,after the battle had ended, they didnt go after him and the princess if they knew that he was with her.

What do u think?

[–] Big G-2 19 years ago

Well to answer why the soldiers didn't attack General Makabe, that was in some ways General Tadokoro's fault. Remember when Makabe first approaches the camp, the soldiers are ready to attack him when all of sudden Tadokoro sees him and calls off his troops, saying to them "your no match for him!" And indeed when they see their mighty general losing the duel, all of a sudden that notion of "your no match for him" suddenly gets thrusted into their heads. Heck, Makabe could have probably taken out several of those soldiers all by himself. Fear was now a driving force. Also the fact that they were shocked, because when Makabe wins the duel, he has the right to kill his opponent. And for Tadokoro, knowing that his men saw him losing the duel, he would have preferred that Makabe kill him rather than living this in shame. But Makabe refuses shocking both Tadokoro and his men as we see him riding off.

As for the first question on why didn't they go after the princess and her company immediately when it was found out who they were, well in viewing that scene and looking at the expression of that solider who let them go, I don't think he wanted anyone to know that he just made a HUGE mistake (it could have cost him his life as well as his men sitting behind him), so he probably waited out it until it was the right time to go after them.

[–] DirtyGrainius 19 years ago

I agree totally with the Gaurds explaination. In Japan the shame of a mistake like that would be huge, maybe he would have to kill himself even, if he admitted it. He probably said to himself just let them go become someone elses problem.

[–] legolas05 19 years ago

That makes sense. thanks.I still dont feel comfortable with the other question tough

[–] sanjuro-31 19 years ago

The soldiers let him go from a combination of things: their general had been defeated, and shamed by not being given an honorable death, and this left them shocked, and leaderless; they genuinely feared and respected Makabe, which would have given them pause in any case, and finally, although this is my surmise, I suspect that there was an unspoken code to let the winner of the duel leave unchallenged- it would have been dishonorable to try to take him down after he had won the challenge. I think especially important in this film is how troops are completely controlled by superiors- it is hard for them to do things without getting a specific order. Even at the end of the film, when Todokoro gave orders which contradicted specific orders for the beheading of Makabi and Princess Yuki, he was still obeyed by the common soldiers, at least temporarily, until the other samurai in charge saw what was going on and alerted the soldiers.

[–] SurreDeth 19 years ago

I think its bad editting more than anything. There is suppose to be SOME time that passes between Mifume's character demanding a reward then getting kicked out of the Xing camp and the arrival of the sentry warning of the possible party harboring the princess. The Yamana force that does evenutally catch up and force Makabe show off his badassness is from the same border crossing.

The other point, about Todokoro's men letting Makabe leave or not giving chase is because the duel was basically the fight for that. If Todokoro won, Makabe would die there and the princess would be discovered, but since Makabe won it was pretty much implied that he was given a free pass from Todokoro's small force, Todokoro would not hunt him down. Thus, getting the beat down from his boss.

http://www.surredeth.com

[–] bruce-toms 15 years ago

#1, some time passed between when Mifune's party left the border crossing, and when the border detachment was alerted - it was getting darker as I remember. And next we see Mifune's party entering a town at night.

[–] jadow81 15 years ago

I agree with Big G-2 on the first question:

I don't think he wanted anyone to know that he just made a HUGE mistake

Let me add 2 things to support Big G-2's theory, because previous 2 posters disagree with it.

1. The guard didn't even report that he had just let them pass.
I'm afraid this may not be clear in subtitles, but in Japanese, it's obvious
that the head of the guards was in lower rank than
the samurai on the horse who came to tell them what kind of group they need to look for.
But the guard let his superior return, without telling what he had done.
In other words, we actually saw the guard hid his failure.

2. The Lord of Yamana is severe to his men.
While we don't actually see him, later in the movie we learn his severity with what he did to Tadokoro Hyôe.
Perhaps that's why the guard showed fear when he learned he made a fatal mistake.

However, precisely speaking, the movie doesn't tell if the guards chased them or not. (But I think they didn't.)

(For the second question, basically I agree with sanjuro-31.)