TOP FILM SCORES


I don't personally think this is the best western ever made (although the integrity of the anti-violence theme is remarkable for a western in 1958 - or even today). I do, however, feel strongly that the music soundtrack by Jerome Moross is the best film score ever composed for a western, and one of the top ten film scores ever. The scope of the themes is unmatched, and evokes the sweep and majesty of the wide open spaces like no other music I have ever heard. I'd love to hear what other opinions are on this, but they won't sway my feelings one way or the other. This soundtrack (which I own) will always be a personal favorite.

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We own it too (hard to get) and it I think it is the BEST soundtrack ever!!

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You are right, great, majestic music!

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I agree about the score. It has all a good film score should : it's a great advertisement for the film, it underscores and complements the films' scenes, and it even has enough themes to make it a good record just to listen to (I also have an old monaural LP of this). The thing that irks me is that it was nominated for best score, but passed over in favour of "The Old Man and the Sea" by Tiomkin (of whom I am not very fond).

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I'm of the opinion that Moross' score for The Big Country is the alltime best original film score (although Miklos Rosza came mighty close with his work in Ben Hur, another Wyler film). His music here, alternately grand or comedic, intense or hauntingly simple, resonates throughout the film, seasoning and heightening each sequence perfectly but never overpowering, from the majestic opening, set against the blurred wheels of a stagecoach, to the final frame. It's also -- quite simply -- uniformly beautiful throughout. All too long ago, I wore out my vinyl copy of the soundtrack (I haven't given up on finding a replacement), but I remember virtually every bit of that music -- and the scenes it highlighted -- to this day, just as when it first held me spellbound 45 years ago.

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I mentioned below THE recording of this to have. Though it may be hard to find in it's ORIGINAL issue, Screen Classics SC-1-JM, which was in an Lp-sized bos with a 12" square 63-page book with analysis of the score and interviews with those surviving when it was put together (1990/91), you may be luckier getting the later release of JUST the Cd, which may've carried the same catalogue number - I don't know. I paid $50. for the boxed version at its releases in May of 1991, so that might help you figure what it might cost now if you could find a copy on E-Bay, say. The straight Cd should be less. This is straight from the Mono session masters, and is only missing two cues - the ragged ending when the orchestra quits playing at the party and the ACTUAL "McKay's Triumph" cue - composed by Byron Ross - which replaced the cue Moross had written. Apparently Wyler wanted a different "sound" for that moment, and so this was composed as a replacement. (The Cd - like the Lp - contains Moross' original cue).

Anyway, good luck to all. Anyone lucky enough to get the boxed version and its "Labor of Love" book will have the gem of Soundtrack Releases!

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The Old Man and the Sea is an odd-duck score for Tiomkin. I could never warm up to it, but then I couldn't warm to the movie, so there ya go. But you would possibly change your feelings about Dimitri if you gave a listen to his great scores for other films.
Lost Horizon
It's a Wonderful Life
High Noon
The Big Sky
The High and the Mighty
Giant (The Texas legislature adopted this score's theme as the official Texas song, so the official song of Texas was written by a Russian emigre...I get a kick out of that!)
Gunfight at the O.K.Corral
The Alamo (It's not his fault it's an awful film!)
The Fall of the Roman Empire (See above note...but a GREAT score.)

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What about Ennio Morricone and Sergio Leone's "Dollar-Trillogy"? In my opinion Ennio Morricone is the greatest filmscore-composer ever, and his score to "Per un pugno dollari in piu" is just mindblowing... But hey, i just saw "The Big Country", and i really loved it...

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Ennio Moricone is an overrated composer. Nino Rota as well as the genius Giovanni Fusco are far superior, to mention only two Italins. His score for Once Upon a Time in America, however, is surely one of the top ten and it's a crime that it wasn't even nominated for an Oscar (the producers simply failed to file in an application, so it wasn't even considered....)
Still... the Big Country IS the best!

Saigon... s**t! I'm still only in Saigon...

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I agree, absolutely one of the best Western scores ever. A close second would be Elmer Bernstein's THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN.

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"Big Country" certainly has a grand score, but how about Maurice Jarre's crackling music for "The Professionals" (1966)? Jarre did "Lawrence Of Arabia" and was in fine form here, mixing familiar western themes with south-of-the-border sizzle. The movie is action-packed, gritty, and downright sexy thanks to Claudia Cardinale and a little-known actress called Marie Gomez (as 'Chiquita'). Jarre's music enhances the action, heat, and humor and, like the the score for "Big Country," can be enjoyed on its own, apart from the film. I don't know if a recording is avalable, but it certainly should be. It's the aural equivalent of a sexy Latina lighting the fuse of a stick of dynamite with a match she struck on her thigh. In other words: hot!

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The Professionals is a very good score, and one of the very few of Maurice Jarre's that I own, but I can't think of it as in the same league with what I feel are the truly GREAT western film scores - High Noon & Gunfight at the O.K.Corral by Tiomkin, The Magnificent Seven & The Shootist by Bernstein, The Big Country by Moross, One-eyed Jacks by Friedhofer, Silverado by Broughton and Barry's Dances With Wolves, among a short list of others.

As for Ennio, I'm not a big one for raining on peoples parties. If you like it, great! But the "Spaghetti Westerns" ARE spaghetti - they have - in my opinion - an almost characaturish quality about them that makes it impossible for me to take seriously. They're NOT American, nor are the scores, which carry a ataunchly European - and particularly Italian - tongue-in-cheek sensibility that makes them seem continually out of step with what you're seeing. They're simply NOT my cup of tea - if you will - so they'll never make it to my list of great scores.

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This was the first soundtrack I ever bought - IN 1959, I think, and I've owned one or more copies ever since. The Screen Classics CD release of the ENTIRE soundtrack score - some 75+ minutes - is definitely the one to have.

Other than his screw-up of the opening trumpet riff in the main-title, the Bremner stereo re-recording some years ago was very good - and of course the stereo sound helps clarify the music - but I could never live with that messed up Main Title, alas.

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Man, these are some top-notch responses to my original post! Even the ones I disagree with are obviously written by sharp people who know their stuff!

Just to throw in my two cents worth, these are my favorite film scores:*

THE LION IN WINTER John Barry
NORTH BY NORTHWEST Bernard Herrmann
BLADE RUNNER Vangelis
CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND John Williams
THE BIG COUNTRY Jerome Moross
THE PLAYER Thomas Newman
BIRDY Peter Gabriel
THE THOMAS CROWN AFFAIR Michel Legrand
YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE John Barry
THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY Ennio Morricone

*Not necessarily my favorite films

I know, I know, I'm all over the place. Can't help it. I figure the great film scores, like the great films, affect people personally. So it is with me. In the end a bit of subjectivity creeps in, regardless of your education.

I could also talk about how impressed I am by some of the work of Henry Mancini, Alex North, Quincy Jones, Maurice Jarre, and Jerry Goldsmith. And how I think the film score of 2001 is the best example of brilliant use of "found" music (If you know what I mean).

But actually, I'm more interested in what you guys have to say about film scores. It's a very stimulating discussion. Have at it.

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Hey, don't apologize for "subjectivism!" NOT with music, which, like painting or movies, for that matter, is totally subjective. It either moves you - stirs your blood or pleases your eye - or it doesn't. Yes, you can be educated to understand the underlying issues of the craft or structure of these arts and taught better methods for intelectual comparison between two practitioners' art so that your subjective reaction has a broader base, but the reaction is still subjective - as it should be.

I can't even begin to give you a list of my favorite scores - they wouldn't let me post a reply that big. I have over a thousand titles - many, of course only themes (as that's all that was ever released) and many more Suites of from 5 to 25 minutes, but probably 500 or 600 of them are "full" score recordings. And I have three times as much concert hall orchestral music, some by composers who've worked in film, such as Rozsa or Herrmann or Williams.

Some things I'd suggest that you hear - if you haven't already - would be:

Elmer Bernstein: To Kill a Mockingbird
Elmer Bernstein: The Magnificent 7
Bernatd Herrmann: The Ghost & Mrs. Muir
Bernatd Herrmann: Symphony - (1940)
John Williams: Amistad
John Williams: The Reivers- (There's a release of his Concert Suite on Sony, with Copland's ...Red Pony Suite and another piece and Williams' concert setting of three pieces from Born on the Fourth of July! GREAT RECORDING!)
Bruce Broughton: Silverado
Thomas Newman: Little Women
David Newman: Mr. Destiny
Randy Newman: The Natural
Hugo Friedhofer: The Young Lions
Hugo Friedhofer: The Best Years of Our Lives
David Raksin: Laura/Forever Amber/The Bad and the Beautiful
Jerry Goldsmith: The Sand Pebbles
Jerry Goldsmith: First Knight
Jerry Goldsmith: The Secret of N*I*M*H
Alex North: 2001: a space odessey - (Yes, there WAS a real score - well, 1/2 of a score - written for the film. It would've been a tighter film if Kubrick had had the sense to use it.)
Alex North: Viva Zapata!
Alex North: The Agony and the Ecstasy
Jerry Goldsmith: The Agony and the Ecstasy Prologue/Rio Conchos
Michael Kamen: Robin Hood: Prince of thieves
Michael Kamen: Mr. Holland's Opus - (The Score on London)

I'll quit now - I'm getting CARRIED AWAY!!!

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[deleted]

Uh, the first question I have for you is - "What are you doing here?" I mean, okay you don't like the film. You haven't a clue as to even how to watch the film - irony is a literary form apparently lost on you - and I'm sorry you didn't "get" the humor of the conflicting "horrible stories" scene - or how the score contributed to it, but okay...so why aren't you over at the Lord of the Rings thread waxing rhapsodic about how great Howeard Shore's work was on THAT film??? Has it become so normal for people to engage in all this damned negativity-spewing that you just had to drop in and spend a few seconds trashing The Big Country and its score?

It is my hunch from your syntax and use of language that your taste is a bit suspect, and I don't think I'll let you be - in ANY way - a benchmark for my enjoyment of film. As for music, I think you've proven you don't know your ass from your elbow.

So, actually, it ALL went over your head.

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Great chat! I'm compelled to agree with most of these citations and confess I snagged the Pickwick vinyl from the bin at Rhino when they were still a two store used-record outlet. That was 20 years after theatrical release and I hadn't seen or heard it in the interim but its impression was that strong.

Allow me to make some observations and additions to this engaging topic:

Westside Story is great but from the discussion I don't think soundtracks from musicals are in consideration. Still I recommend the "Symphonic Dances From ..." as one of Leonard's best.

Elmer Berstein has been mentioned but left out his Oscar winning "Mockingbird"; certainly in contention for #1. Good also rans of his are "Walk on the Wild Side" and "The Great Escape". "Sons of Katie Elder" is too close a rip-off of 'Seven to stand on its own. "Hollywood and the Stars" is a most pleasant listen, written for some self-congratulatory Hollywood retrospective.

Miklos Rosa is the epitomy of the grand epic with 'Hur, Cid and King of Kings.

Mentioned was Maurice Jarre and what he did with guitars. Unmentioned was Zhivago and what he did with balilykas (even if the cut, Lara was played to death as the soapy "Somewhere My Love"). Did I see "Lawrence of Arabia" listed?

You can't knock Richard and Johanne Strauss but the "2001" soundtrack wasn't written for the screen and is disqualified.

I'ld like to inroduce Jones' and Edelman's "Last fo the Mohicans" for consideration. An addictive piece that has been flattered with imitaion.

Please don't laugh if I include "Yellow Submarine" if only for George Martin's heart warming "Pepperland".

I've prattled on enough.

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The "Symphonic Dances..." IS a great concert piece - but an even better one is the Symphonic Scenario from On the Waterfront, which IS eligible as a background score ( Lenny's ONLY ONE, alas! ).

ALL of Elmer's westerns are similar - The Magnificent Seven simply being the most famous. I'm partial to The Commancheros and The Shootist myself, as well as the ...Seven!

I can't get much enthusiasm for Jarre, but that's just me.

There was of course a score ( or, actually HALF a score ) for 2001: a space odyssey, by Alex North, and it's a gem. But ripping off straight performances of classical pieces from someone's record catalogue does not a score make - and 2001... is all the proof you need of that. MGM was right - it NEEDED a score - but the Kubrick sgo wasn't ready to back down.

The Last of the Mohicans is very worthy of inclusion, but let's not forget that 50% of the score is by Randy Edelman - credit where it's due, and all that.

And I'm not laughing - I LOVE George Martin's score for Yellow Submarine, though many of the melodies are - of course - by Lennon-McCartney, so it could even qualify as an adaptation score.

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Best film scores
The Third Man - Anton Karras(with his zither)
High Noon -Dmitri Tiomkin
The Big Country -Jerome Moross
The Professionals- Maurice Jarre
The Magnificent Seven -Elmer Bernstein
A Walk on the Wild Side - Elmer Bernstein
The Good ,The Bad and The Ugly - Ennio Morricone
Get Carter- Roy Budd
Dances With Wolves -John Barry
The Dam Busters -Eric Coates
A Passage to India -Maurice Jarre







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Just for the record: to it's everlasting shame the Academy DID NOT give an Award to To Kill a Mockingbird - it went to the bombast of Lawrence of Arabia for the 1962 awards.
"Principles only mean something if you stick to them when they're INconvenient"

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Yeah. Got the nomination confused with the award. Recently saw part of an interview with Elmer ruing the loss.

I'm not saying we won't get our hair mussed!

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[deleted]

I absolutely agree with the theme from
"The Sand Pebbles." I have a 45 record
by Tony Martin with lyrics to the theme
song, it's called "And We Were Lovers."

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Notrh's score??... Ligety / Strauss work used by Kubrick in 2001 is part of what makes it such an experience!!! Thank God! I've heard Noth's score - it's good. With it the movie would be just another great movie with great score. As it turned out - it's a work of genius!

Saigon... s**t! I'm still only in Saigon...

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One person's "work of genius" is another's visually stunning but ultimately empty travelogue. Be careful to not load YOUR (and obviously other's) reaction to a piece of cinema on anyone else's back. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" comes to mind here.

There are some of us - heretics that we must be - who, while impressed with Kubrick's visual acumen, find the film an endless bore. And for the record, I saw the film in its INITIAL Hollywood run and was able to have my own reaction to it before the baggage of almost 40 years of punditry turned it into some kind of icon. It was empty and self-indulgent to me then, and it HASN'T improved with the years.

Just a different view of your "work of genius" that's - nevertheless - equally valid. There ARE no absolutes.

"Principles only mean something if you stick to them when they're INconvenient"

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I'm not AFRAID of the negativity...I'm SICK of it. If you didn't like the film, that's fine. If you want to say so, that's fine. But in an adult conversation that could just be a difference of opinion. I've NN interst in Lord of the Rings, but even so I'd NEVER refer to it as tripe. I'd simply state it's not my cup of tea, IF I bothered to tell you at all. I mean, what's the point, ultimately???

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[deleted]

welshstephenevans' simple-minded negativity, like that of a lot of kids who wander around the imdb, is worth no further comment than this: You said your piece. If you can't understand what the other posts have ALREADY SAID about the outstanding score for THE BIG COUNTRY, that's your problem. Now move on.

On another topic, I feel I have to speak up in defense of Stanley Kubrick and 2001. I admire Alex North. I own Jerry Goldsmith's interpretation of the North score for 2001. I've even attended a class in which portions of the North score were played over the sections of 2001 where those portions of his score were intended to go. On a large screen projector. And in the end, I have to agree with Kubrick's decision. North's score simply doesn't mesh with Kubrick's vision. Now, the fact that, IMHO, 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY is the greatest motion picture ever made, must be taken into account. I have held that opinion for 34 years (even after watching a lot of other great films in those years), and I guess I always will. So we'll just have to call that a difference of opinion. But while I can agree that Kubrick could have been more considerate of North in letting the man know his score wouldn't be used, I'm not willing to write it off as a simple case of egotism on Kubrick's part. Kubrick was battling a lot of people at that time to make the film HE wanted to make. If that was wrong of him, then to me that's like saying, for instance, that it was wrong for Coppola to insist on Brando and Pacino for THE GODFATHER. Let's just agree that Kubrick's people skills may have been...well, deficient...and that North's reputation survived the encounter intact. Certainly to the present day.

I must add that North's use of similar themes in his score for DRAGONSLAYER was impressive (his music in the final confrontation with the dragon still sends thrills up my spine just thinking about it).

Sorry if we went too far off the topic of THE BIG COUNTRY's score. But dammit, having conversations like this with intelligent people (minus one) is too much fun not to take advantage of.

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[deleted]

With a father who played violins, a brother who fiddles in a symphony orchestra, and a history of five years at the piano with a demanding instructor, you'd think I would know a thing or two about music, but unfortunately I do not. Nevertheless, even my tin ear can appreciate great film scores, so please allow me to say that my top three are those for "Ben-Hur," "Lawrence Of Arabia," and "The Big Country," with the narrow edge going to Rozsa. His score had so many variations it didn't even fit on one LP! In order hear "The March of the Charioteers" I had to purchase an alternate LP some years later.

Which brings me to this point: neither of the LPs sounded quite like the music from the actual movie. They were subtly but noticeably different arrangements. So, I ask all you learned folks, in compiling your collection of the older classic scores, how frustrated have you been when the sounds weren't what you remember because the recordings were taken not from the film but from subsequent orchestrations? When scores are reissued these days on CD, are they the genuine article from the films, or the second-hand arrangements?

Also, which contemporary film composers do you think compare well with the masters of the past and why? (Aaronrosen has named a few).

And, finally, why do you think original film scores (as opposed to the pop tunes added so frequently these days instead) seem so much more subdued (less bombastic?) these days than in the glorious past? I fear we will never again hear a score as rousing as that for "The Big Country," and I wonder why? Is it a matter of tastes and trends in Hollywood--or just a lack of talent?

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What is this, a test?

I'm kidding, I'm kidding. These are wonderful questions, and I hope other people beside me respond to them. I just don't know how well I'm going to do answering these. But here goes.

1) I remember when I was a kid being almost offended when I heard even a slight variation of a music theme I loved. So yes, I ALWAYS am bothered when someone "improves" on an original score. In any way. Someone pointed out that the most available CD of THE BIG COUNTRY music (With the Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Tony Bremner), not being the original soundtrack, has a glaring flaw in the opening track that they found unforgiveable. I don't have quite that strong of a reaction, but I have to say Bremner didn't do himself any credit by not staying fully faithful to Moross. I equate it to trying to do a rewrite on Shakespeare. Another example of "somewhat faithful" recordings of original soundtracks is the David Temple/Nic Raine recording (Silva Screens Records) of what I consider one of the ten best soundtracks of all time, John Barry's THE LION IN WINTER. While most of it is pretty faithful, the opening track is slightly off of Barry's brilliant original recording, and the track "How Beautiful You Made Me" (which is, to me, quite possibly the most haunting expression of despair ever put to music) drops the ball pretty badly. What a shame.

2) I happen to think Thomas Newman's work (THE PLAYER, THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION) is equal to anyone who's ever done a soundtrack. Also Peter Gabriel is brilliant, although he's only done three movie soundtracks (that I'm aware of). Those are the best I've heard in the last 15-20 years, but if you want to go back as far as people who started in the 60's, well, it's John Barry, Ennio Morricone, Jerry Goldsmith, Maurice Jarre, and Michel Legrand for me. Oh, and I think Vangelis has done some great stuff (BLADE RUNNER, MISSING, THE BOUNTY), although to be honest CHARIOTS OF FIRE didn't do that much for me.

Oh my God, this is really going on. Okay, you almost answered the last question yourself: the studios these days hook their movies too much on pop songs, often originally done completely independently of the film they're used for. They don't WANT the soundtrack composer to top that pop song that cost them millions to get the rights for. That's the major force in undermining distinctive original soundtracks. Although I'm old enough to know what goes around comes around.

Do I need to point out that all this is my opinion? I mean, is there anyone out there who thinks all this is The Literal Word of Truth?

If anyone does, then here comes my next pronouncement:

SEND

ME

ALL

YOUR

MONEY

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Dear DD-931--

The check is in the mail.

Those alternate recordings strike me as kind of like those "pops" concerts where clips of a film are shown on a big screen while the orchestra saws out an approximation of the original score.

Perhaps a solution can be found through the magic of DVD. I don't think this option is available yet, but I should think it would be possible at some time in the future to be able to select a "music only" option for the play mode. That way, film score lovers can just sit back and enjoy the score as they originally heard it.

Even more annoying than the pop tunes in most contemporary movies is the rock song tacked on at the end of, say, a Western, just so a music video of it can be cross-marketed on MTV.

If "Big Country" were made today, I imagine a hip-hop version of its score would make the rounds of the cable video jukeboxes.

Thanks for responding...

P.S. I was also rather peeved that when "they" reconstituted Orson Welles' "Touch of Evil" a few years ago, they removed the score along with the opening credits the studio had tacked onto the beginning of the film. All, apparently, so we could have the pleasure of hearing miscellaneous sound effects, like a goat braying (or whatever sound it is that goats produce).

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[deleted]

I stand before you properly chastened. Doh!

Far as I know, the opening tracking shot in "Evil" remained unchanged; the credits and music were just removed. I'm used to having a score set the tone for the rest of the film, and Mancini's overture did just that. We only got to hear this music in a somewhat truncated form just before Welles strangles Tamiroff, if memory serves.

As for other great scores, I often read that Alfred Newman's for "Captain From Castile" (1947) is one of the best; as it has been pointed out on this thread, swashbucklers lend themselves to exciting musical accompaniment. As for Westerns, the little-seen "The Scalphunters" (1968) has a memorable and playful score by Elmer Bernstein. "Lord Jim" (1965) ran on AMC today and included sad, haunting, but very beautiful music by Bronislau Kaper.

By the way, the ever-irascible John Ford reportedly said Max Steiner's score for the Ford Western classic "The Searchers" would have been more suited to a film about cossacks. He was kidding (I think).

Thanks for the tip re "The Trial."

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You may already know this, but I thought I'd point out that the "Director's Cut" of TOUCH OF EVIL doesn't have Mancini's score because, since Mancini was studio-imposed, the "purists" who were trying to restore the film to Welle's original vision of it deduced that Welles didn't intend to have ANY score over that marvelous opening shot. So they dropped Mancini. Personally, I loved Mancini's work in that film, and I don't like the Director's Cut quite as much because they cut out his score. But I guess it's a case of Win Some, Lose Some.

I think having a "Music Only" selection on future DVD re-issues is a great idea. Here's hoping the powers-that-be pick up on it.

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There used to be a "music only" option on many laser discs, including the laser disc of "The Big Country". I haven't encountered this feature on a DVD or Blu Ray yet. The complete original soundtrack of "The Big Country" is available on CD.

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There is a two-CD release by Turner/Rhino of THE ENTIRE soundtrack for Ben-Hur with great notes. Look for it. It only took 30+ years to FINALLY get the actual soundtrack!

"Principles only mean something if you stick to them when they're INconvenient"

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I've been listening to the recently released "North by North" a compilation of otherwise uncelebrated film work by Alex North. It's largely disappointing. Its one redemption is a big one, "Unchained Melody" from 1955's "Unchained". No Elvis. No Bobby Hatfield. No vocal to distract from a marvelous heart warmer. I can't stop hitting the replay button.

I'm not saying we won't get our hair mussed!

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A wonderful thread. I'm learning a lot. For those interested in scores for the less grandiose films, I suggest Rozsa's score for "The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes" (1970). Rozsa's use of his violin concerto is marvelous. Absolutely haunting and so appropriate to the very "personal" nature of this unusual Billy Wilder film. Take a listen, if you haven't already.

BTW, they did the right thing in removing the score and the credits from the opening tracking shot in "Touch of Evil". It was Welles' original intention and it is, after all, Welles' film.

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Alex North also wrote the score for the film "2001: A Space Odyssey". Kubrick, though, liked the classical scores better (they had been used for temporary filler during filming until Alex North's work was completed) and North's work was not used on the film. However, his score was ultimately recorded by the National Philharmonic Orchestra in 1993 in London. It is available on CD titled "Alex North's 2001". Very interesting and with quite an interesting story. What could have been.....

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After reading all the other comments, I feel compelled to add my top 10 favorite film scores also. In no particular order.
HOW THE WEST WAS WON - Alfred Newman
TARAS BULBA - Franz Waxman
THE BIG COUNTRY - Jerome Moross
BEN-HUR - Miklos Rozsa
TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD - Elmer Bernstein
FAHRENHEIDT 451 - Bernard Herrmann
THE FURY - John Williams
VERTIGO - Bernard Herrmann
THE EGYPTIAN - Alfred Newman and Bernard Herrmann
SPARTACUS - Alex North

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