does anyone think that after the movie ended and Jim and Julie end up together that Leech and Pat would to?
not necessarily something she wants but after her father dies she sorta fell into it.
"The only Abnormality is the incapacity to love"
Definitly. She was making eyes at him after he challenged McKay and said that Jim wasn't good enough for her. He spoke her language, Jim didn't.
I don't think she'd be 100% for it at first, but she did have some kind of attraction to him.
__________
We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust the sails. - Bertha Calloway
Interesting question. I think when all is said and done, Leech was definitely her type more than McKay ever could be.
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Not a chance!! (arguably)
My impression was that Steve Leech...
is destined to 'jump-ship' away from Pat Terril
and side with Jim & Julie to 'jump-start' the Big Muddy.
Reasons:
1) Steve's attitude matured Big Time after his 'all night' fistcuff with Jim.
2) Leech was considered one of the finest ranch foreman in the territory.
Julie advices Jim that he will need a good foreman,
"to help run things til you learn the ropes".
At the 2nd to last scene of the film;
Jim & Steve's final gaze at each other implies their future is bonded toward working together.
(my interpretation, because of the serene melody of the theme music that was layered in the background)
Earlier on:
3) It was Steve who prevents the Major from shooting Jim in cold blood
during their face-off at the Blanco Canyon entrance prior to Julie's rescue.
(He even places himself in between the Major's revolver and McKay)
The ('pre-fight with McKay') Leech wouldn't have interfered.
I loved it when the Major sneers at McKay,
"That's a fine place to go (into Blanco Canyon) for a man who avoids a fight".
The Major glances at Leech for support;
...and Steve lowers his gaze in embarrassed silence.
4) Pat's eyes showed triumph during Leech's baiting Jim into a brawl by calling him a liar.
But that triumphant look wasn't toward Leech;
it was her selfish desire to be the center of attention.
And if you thought Pat was a spoiled, manipulative bitch BEFORE her father's death,
Stand Back!! With her as top dog owner; furgettaboutit!!
Her father's death (unwarranted, in her mind) would have sent her into a looney tune dictatorship.
I believe Steve's new found awareness would compel him to see Pat for what she is.
Cold, self centered, bitter & tragic.
And Carroll Baker played her flaws to perfection.
5) I also believe, unlike the Major, Jim would eventually have given Steve a large parcel
to begin his new life after his years of service to Jim.
6) But the Steve who obviously had doubts over the justice of driving thirsty cattle away;
to leading many men to a senseless slaughter inside the canyon;
was no longer the same man who boldly hitched his jeans on without his feet ever touching fabric,
minutes before that mid summer's night's fight with boxer McKay!
"So tell me, Leech. What exactly did we prove?".
With no bystanders, Leech becomes Steve;
nods in agreement...drops his head in bewildered shame;
...and is forever changed.
What a classic moment!
And the aftermath of that change is enough where he would no longer tolerate
Pat's insecurities.
I could see that scenario you described played out, of Leech ending up working for McKay and becoming aware that maybe Pat isn't so hot after all. Maybe Pat ends up following in her father's footsteps while starting a new feud only this time against McKay & Julie for spite. Or against remnants of the Hannasey clan. Oh boy fodder for The Big Country Part 2.
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jbirtel:
Loved your assessment of Steve Leech and his character, both before and after the midnight McKay / Leech bout.
One thing I might add is I don't think Leech was really all that bad of a guy even before McKay's influence; for example, he was the only one to think of checking to see whether or not Rufus' rifle was loaded after the Major had scoffed that Rufus was only bluffing and brandishing an empty gun when he invited the Major to shoot him in the back; Steve discovered that the rifle, indeed, had been loaded.
I, too, have always imagined that Pat would become the image of her father, probably even begin to LOOK like him as she got older! There's another part of me (my heart) that always hopes she'll become a better person, but MY BRAIN says, Nah, she'll become the Major-in-petticoats in any sequel to TBC.
vinidici;
Thank you for your kind words.
I also like the way the camera cuts to Peck when HE realizes that Rufus wasn't bluffing;
and who the true perpetrator really is
(which he found out that morning by not buying the Major's excuse for rousing the posse).
Perfect acting across the board.
Sometimes I check on a poster's movie taste before responding.
Yours is admirable! Outstanding epics (minus Cleo'P)
and a wide range of great classic choices!
(And the rumor's out about your coffee fetish;
I'll take cappacino...
the 'Seven Eleven' kind where the machine dispenser roars like a weed whacker
while the coffee ejaculates)
Thanks again!
You might be pleased to know I'm not particularly a fan of "Cleopatra," having not seen the movie at all since the last time I viewed it on broadcast TV back in the '70's (though I still give plaudits to Rex Harrison for his turn as Julius Caesar); I only made recent comments there because I, too, check up on fellow posters "with taste" and whose views, whether I agree or not, I find admirable.
No 7-11's in this neck of the woods, alas, but there are a couple of Dutch Brothers drive-thrus in this town!
Also, in my last post, I'm not saying that Leech is without his shortcomings, just that he's actually a good man long before he ever met McKay, but guilty of indulging in thought patterns and attitudes that make him lesser than he should be, hence his icy reception when he picks up the newly arrived McKay, the challenge to a fist fight, etc. The scene at Blanco Canyon, alone, confirmed for me that Steve Leech had always been respected, admired, and liked by the fellow ranch hands under his leadership, which means that even at his worst (as in the way he had treated McKay), he wasn't such a bad guy deep down.
Interesting views on things, guys. I enjoyed reading them a lot.
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I cant't imagine Leech and Pat ending up together. He was attracted to her for a long time and so was she to him and if the film had ended before the fight between Leech and McKay, they might have become a couple. But I think the moment Leech realises who McKay actually is and - even more important - who the Major is, he understands that Pat, who has refused the one and always worshipped the other, is no more than a spoilt child. When he finally comes to see the father clearly, he will probably lose the infatuation with the daughter as well.
Sometimes I've wondered whether Leech is really in love with Pat or whether his attraction to her comes from a subconscious longing to really be a part of the family. The Major is a father surrogate to him and the farm where he has been working for so long is his home. By marrying Pat, he would win the farm and finally become a family member. Perhaps that is what he has seen in Pat (apart from her being the only girl in town).
When the battle in the canyon is over, Leech looks like a man whose world has gone to pieces and who has to do a lot of thinking which may not allow him to return to his former life. I'd rather think that he might start a new life elsewhere or even work for McKay. But if he should marry Pat he'd merely do it for the farm and out of a sense of duty to the Major which I would not call a happy ending.
vindici & schlagter:
I totally agree with every word of your postings.
Side note:
Included in the special features of the laser disc version,
was an early draft of the script
where Steve challenges the Major by asking;
"Is this the man (McKay) you want to take over the Terril ranch when you're gone?".
I always suspected that Leech and Pat had many romantic rendezvous
in the barnyard hay, initiated by Pat's flirtatous teasing.
When the Major finds out, he sends Pat east.
There she meets Jim.
And returns home to jealous dumpee Leech.
That would further confirm Leech's jealousy;
and unfair attitude toward Jim.
Sometimes I've wondered whether Leech is really in love with Pat or whether his attraction to her comes from a subconscious longing to really be a part of the family. The Major is a father surrogate to him and the farm where he has been working for so long is his home. By marrying Pat, he would win the farm and finally become a family member. Perhaps that is what he has seen in Pat (apart from her being the only girl in town).
That is entirely possible.
I've often wondered what Leech saw in Pat; sure she was easy on the eyes but surely there were other less stressful women in the town he could have hooked up with? Looking at the scene where she hits him with the riding crop and he pulls into a rough embrace gives the impression, as jbirtel-1 points out, that the quite possibly had a fling in the past, or she led him on, and then she comes back with McKay, who is the polar opposite of Leech, thus Leech's reaction could be that of a scorned lover who has yet to let go of the torch.
She rejected Leech not because he wasn't attractive enough but because he wasn't good enough. Leech is an employee.
When he tries to kiss her it suggests to me that he knows she sexually desires him but rejects him for other reasons.
Man that's a good post !!! Love it - well done !!
I think they do get together. They need each other.
The reason she rejects him previously is that she does not see him as good enough for her. Leech is an employee. She is looking for an independently rich man.
After being rejected by McKay she will run to the closest man she can find to her father and that is Leech. She will no longer feel she can trust a man outside her orbit.