MovieChat Forums > Kumonosu-jô (1961) Discussion > the thing the witch was spinning

the thing the witch was spinning

posted 18 years ago by rut88
9 replies | jump to latest

What the hell was that thing the witch was holding and spinning all the time when she was talking?
And does it symbolize anything?
Please answer

[–] muyemork 18 years ago

It was a handspindle (ie - a small spinning wheel) usually used for spinning silk fibres into silk threads.

The original Japanese title of the movie is "Kumonosu Jou" which translates to Spiderweb castle (or Castle of Spiderwebs).

In this context, the witch appears to be spinning together the threads from cobwebs. The symbolism being that she is slowly reeling in her prey (Washizu) like a spider.

[–] pieman9999 18 years ago

That is a really cool explanation. Thanks Muyemork.

[–] O_L_D_B_O_Y 18 years ago

It could also be seen as the Thread of Life.

[–] petitemom_of1 18 years ago

I watched this movie several yrs ago but the most memorable scene for me was this witch's scene. I wasn't thinking as far as some of you on how this scene would give quite a few of symbols hence raised the suspense of what was going to happen later in the movie.

BTW, the question I've been meaning to ask is: When she was talking while spinning the "wheel", what was she talking about or was she giving out curses ?
I don't really understand as I missed reading some words of the English subtitles (I watched this in an independent cinema).

[–] melaenis 18 years ago

As I recall, she was talking about how short and ultimately useless life is. Kind of the whole "[Life] is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing." from Macbeth.

[–] haytham-hisham 18 years ago

this is what my subtitles said about the song the witch was singing:

men are vain mortals; life is but a thread
a leash, at which men strain and yelp
A stalk... on which ambition blooms and withers
Mortal words and deeds are merely lust and greed
but all men one day face the reckoning
victor and vanquished, saint and sinner...
...all pay their dues, and fade to nothingness

and at the start of the movie there was a song by male chorus that said:

A proud castle stood in this desolate place
It's destiny wedded to a mortals lust for power
Here lived a warrior strong yet weakened by a woman
Driven to add his tribute to the throne of blood.
The devil's path will always lead to doom

i never read Mcbeath but are these lines from the original?

o and thanx for explaining the spinning thing.

[–] jeffreynchurch 17 years ago

I own the DVD and there are two sets of subtitles for the movie:
The first set most closely translates Japanese to English
The second is another translation is more generalized and gives a
very simplified version of what the witch is saying.

I like the first because the words seem more phenomenally related to
the mystic qualities of this evil spirit... Here is the song below:

"Strange is the world
Why should men ... Receive life in this world?
Men's lives are as meaningless ... As the lives of insects
The terrible folly ... Of such suffering
A man lives but ... As briefly as a flower
Destined all too soon ... To decay into the stink of flesh
Humanity strives in ... All of its days
To sear its own flesh ... In the flames of base desire
Exposing itself ... To Fate's 5 Calamities
Heaping karma upon karma
All that awaits Man ... At the end Of his travails
Is the stench of rotting flesh ... that will yet blossom into flower
Its foul odor rendered ... Into sweet perfume
Oh, fascinating ... The life of Man ... Oh, fascinating"

For some reason, this song and that scene really spooked me. It made
me think to myself that the movie "Throne of Blood" was not a joke.
It was going to really stay with me forever... and it did.

[–] land-on-the-moon 11 years ago

hair raising =D

(I knew this version too)

[–] Kawada_Kira (7282) 8 years ago

That's amazing. I really prefer this translation. The other translation (the Donald Richie one) was the one I watched last night. I think this one is better; the other has more of a Western feel to it, I think, I guess to make it easier for Western audiences. I'm going to have to re-watch the movie with this set of subtitles.