MovieChat Forums > The Bridge on the River Kwai (1957) Discussion > Colonel Nicholson in the 'Oven'

Colonel Nicholson in the 'Oven'

posted 17 years ago by Tjcat
24 replies | jump to latest

I have no experience in warfare, however I am a registered nurse. It seems difficult to believe Colonel Nicholson could survive more than two days in the prison camp's "oven." How long was Colonel Nicholson subjected to indescribable heat of the "oven." How could he possibly be able to walk after what appeared to be several days in the sweltering heat? I do not believe he had food or water during his punishment, except when the medical officer examimed him. After watching the film on TCM Saturday night, I am still wondering how much licence the script writers took with this type of punishment/torture. Any thoughts?

[–] bradford-1 17 years ago

I hate to bring up the cliche, "dramatic license," but nothing else seems to fit the bill. In reality, depending on his health before being put in the oven, one doubts Nicholson would be able to walk, probably not even see very well. And one can also assume that he'd been lying in his own filth, as well.

[–] tgoc 17 years ago

Dear Tjcat,

You are forgetting that Colonel Nicholson was British, and a British officer as well. But, seriously, I think that what we should remark upon is the brilliant way in which Sir Alec Guinness made us all believe in what the film presents, even if, as you say, it is hard to believe. Keep in mind that the film is all about moral victories, and may be allowed a certain poetic licence.

Yours,
TGOC

[–] LionHearted99 17 years ago

I've often wondered that too, Tjcat. It seems incredible that the colonel could last more than a few days to a week maximum in that kind of an environment. I would think dehydration alone would be enough to kill him... especially in that climate and the intense heat of the oven. I couldn't discern a time frame...but I was lead to believe he was in there for about a month or more. Clearly in a real life situation he would have been long gone.

[–] cwente2 17 years ago

You're an RN, so I wouldn't dispute your observation. But, let's remember Clipton mentions that they (the prisoners) were able to bribe the guards from time to time, as we see Shears doing at the beginning. A kind of safety valve for the credulity of the situation, perhaps?

[–] bradford-1 16 years ago

I'd forgotten about bribing the guards. I guess that means Nicholson was slipped water and food and after dark, may have been let out to walk around a bit.

[–] edess 15 years ago

Yeah, dramatic license is a corny excuse, but that's the way it is. The whole point of a movie is to impact you. And in order to do that, it has to fudge the facts a bit. Of course, it would be next to impossible to survive being in the oven. But without the film showing that, you wouldn't be quite as engaged in both Shears' character and Saito's character. The point was to demonstrate a test of wills. Taking this license EMPOWERS the film. That it's unrealistic has nothing to do with the film experience. We all know, or should know, that we must surrender our imaginations to a film. That's the whole point. To have an exalted experience that brings our humanity into focus.

Realistically, even the captors would not have kept them in there too long. Because if they wanted them to die, they would have just shot them. This was meant to be torture in order to break the will and get them to do what they wanted.

[–] Hancock_the_Superb 15 years ago

I seem to recall in the novel the Japanese did feed him on their own accord, but only rice and just enough water to survive. This isn't really addressed in the movie though.

"I am Mr. Shackelford's attorney, Rusty Shackelford, and my client pleads insanity."

[–] dallasal 15 years ago

Conditions in real life were far worse than displayed in the movie.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1254168/Monsters-River-Kwai-On e-British-POW-tells-horrifying-story.html

[–] cwente2 15 years ago

"Conditions in real life were far worse than displayed in the movie."

I'm sure you're right. We've had many posters on this site who've expressed that view and I wouldn't dispute their assertions. Some had relatives who lived the reality. Let's remember though, the film is a fiction "based upon" a novel (also a fiction) which is "based upon" historical events. It has a unique story to tell with its own messages. Eg., "The Man in the Iron Mask" is based upon the events and personalities of Louis XIV's reign in France. It, too, has a unique story to tell with its own messages. I doubt, however, that the real Louis XIV had an identical twin brother who snatched his throne from him in the way depicted in the novel and the film(s).

[–] PerrinRiver 15 years ago

Film makers only have at most two hours to tell their story. We, as the passive audience, have no idea what did and did not really occur (assuming this to be a film based on a real-life incident, which it isn't). So, of course they have
to use their 'poetic license' to tell us that story as best they can.
But you are right, if the good Col was never let out to stretch his legs, it would take many days of 'physical therapy' to overcome those days of inactivity. Anybody who has been on bed rest for more than two days would identify with this problem--remember our astronauts returning from space?--they had to be supported by those Navy Seals who rescued them and helped them off the helicopters onto the ship's deck.

[–] ronfirv 13 years ago

I am no clinician but the Col. would have died from DVT and/or fatal dehydration. I was on bed rest for fully 24 hours after an op., and without a Physio at my side and holding his arm, would have dropped like a stone, on walking 50 yards on the ward afterwards, in all likelihood. This was a fantastic film but these scenes were truly incredible and unfeasible;Sir Alec did a great job in making us believe it was feasible, just.

[–] bradford-1 11 years ago

Back in '06, I had emergency abdominal surgery. I stayed in the hospital bed roughly 4-and-a-half days. When I finally had the urge to go to the bathroom, I swung myself off the mattress and went splat! I looked like Ray Bolger playing the Scarecrow because I couldn't make my legs work. I had to finally drag myself on the floor to the toilet. It took me about three hours to be able to walk again (and I hadn't been confined in an overheated steel box and had been receiving antibiotics intraveneously).
"May I bone your kipper, Mademoiselle?"

[–] ronfirv 11 years ago

I repeat, the most ridiculous scene in this otherwise enjoyable film.
Col. Nicholson would have died within a day or two, at most, from a combination of heatstroke, dehydration, then multiple organ failure.
As for him walking out of the oven (even stiffly and aided)was just unbelievable.
Insult was added when we saw him standing without assistance in front of Col. Saito. The director insulted our intelligence.

[–] cwente2 11 years ago

Well, he didn't insult my intelligence. Never thought of those things watching the film -- and glad I didn't.

Besides, I'm not so sure the picture would have been improved had Nicholson a) died in the box the first or second day, or b) been dragged unconscious to Saito's orderly room and propped up by two or three Japanese guards during this pivotal meeting between the two commanders.

Too much attention to "reality"/"realism" can, sometimes, be an impediment to "bringing the emotional hammer down", so to speak, at critical moments in a drama.

[–] ronfirv 11 years ago

Lack of reality, au contraire,especially of the far-fetched variety,destroys credibility.
I have lived and worked in the Tropics, and only too well recall the heat and the humidity, unrelenting. Then add that AND in an oven, I felt for him believe me, but knew he would have died for the time he allegedly spent inside. Any man would.

[–] cwente2 11 years ago

I have not lived in the tropics and am not a doctor, so . . . I saw nothing of the "far-fetched variety" in the scene. Apparently, neither did Lean -- a meticulous director. But, if that's how you feel, well, that's how you feel. . .

I still submit, however, too much focus on reality can spoil an appreciation even of Shakespeare.

[–] Clintessence 11 years ago

Yes, I too believe that the Col. wouldn't have lasted but a couple of days in the "oven", and wouldn't have been able to walk like he did when removed. Other than that little bit of "literary license", this was a great movie and very well made.

[–] bradford-1 11 years ago

If the Colonel had died in the oven after three days, this would have been a totally different film.
"May I bone your kipper, Mademoiselle?"

[–] Clintessence 11 years ago

Hey bradford-1,

You're right, it would have been a completely different film. In fact, they wouldn't have had a story at all. If the Col. had been dead when they removed him from the oven, then the story would've been half-baked. It would have been a real turkey, and they could stick a fork in the whole movie. This would have been a real shame, because as we all know, someone left the cake out in the rain, and it took so long to bake it, and we'll never have the recipe again.

[–] sarahroxxor 10 years ago

it is possible. thats why its called torture.

dont u notice in the movie they say most of the things can be bribed? i believe he was given food and drinks by the japanese. colonel saito knows this and he just turn one eye closed.

it is very common in war. even in prison nowadays you can get some cigarette if you were thrown into 'the hole'.

[–] generalusgrant 10 years ago

It's also absurd that when Nicholson emerges from Saito's quarters (and is mobbed by the men), he doesn't immediately consume gallons of water. He would certainly have died of heat stroke, unless he was being fed and given water-- the movie makes it fairly plain this was not the case.

In any case, it would never have happened in an actual Japanese POW camp. The moment Nicholson refuses to work, he and his fellow officers would have been gunned down or even beheaded with a Samurai sword by the guards. Read about the Bataan Death March for an actual idea of the brutal hell POW's experienced.

[–] Trax-3 10 years ago

He would certainly have died of heat stroke, unless he was being fed and given water-- the movie makes it fairly plain this was not the case.

The movie makes it plain that his guards were bribed.

The moment Nicholson refuses to work, he and his fellow officers would have been gunned down or even beheaded with a Samurai sword by the guards. Read about the Bataan Death March for an actual idea of the brutal hell POW's experienced

The real Saito was apparently a rather decent fellow for a Japanese officer.

[–] mxzt 10 years ago

If that oven was 50 degrees celsius at the least. I doubt Colonel Nicholson would of even survive a day in that thing. Without water, and that extreme heat. He would've died less than 24 hours imo.

[–] bradford-1 9 years ago

For the last time, the doctor tells Nicholson that they've managed to bribe his guards! Which means they were able to sneak small amounts of food and (presumably) water to him. No, it wouldn't be an Olive Garden extravaganza, but enough to keep him alive.

May I bone your kipper, Mademoiselle?